(CA) K-12 Transgender Law Repeal
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Forum » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » (CA) K-12 Transgender Law Repeal
(CA) K-12 Transgender Law Repeal
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 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-13 16:24:25
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Wasn't there a big *** deal raised because a woman was driving in NASCAR, a sport with zero physical contact outside horrifying wrecks that semi-inebriated patrons hope occur at every event?

Yes it was because of her sponsor.

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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-13 16:25:50
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It's an appeal to authority because you're using his credentials as a way to dismiss any criticism over your claim that transphobia is somehow more justified over homophobia. I don't even have a problem with what the *** doctor said just the way it was used to prove a point.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-11-13 16:25:51
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Marking the adversary in soccer gets physical beyond just being wary of not to hurt.

Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Wasn't there a big *** deal raised because a woman was driving in NASCAR, a sport with zero physical contact outside horrifying wrecks that semi-inebriated patrons hope occur at every event?

Fact is if you're different, someone will find a way to give you ***about it.
Protesting about mixed genders in motors seems extremely stupid to me <_< (inb4 women drivers jokes)
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-11-13 16:28:08
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
I love that you cut off the rest of that quotation. I especially love that you completely disregarded Dr. Ray Blanchard's comparison of the visual components between homosexuality and transexualism.
Actually, I wrote this before you started desperately hoping that citing another twerp would validate your argument.

But since you bring it up, your quotation from Blanchard is a somewhat valid point. It doesn't actually back up your point, though, it just uses similar words. The quotation is saying that if someone is a part of your life and starts to transition, you're dragged along for the ride, whereas if someone is a part of your life and has a same-sex partner, you're mostly left by the wayside. There's really no visual component involved except in that IF THE PERSON WAS KNOWN TO YOU, you may still have a mental image of them as the opposite gender.

I dye my hair multiple times a year and the shape of my head changes dramatically based on how long it has been since I had a haircut. Heck, let's be even more dramatic: I've lost a pile of weight this year and am now thinner and fitter than I have been since before I hit puberty. All of my friends and family are affected by that visual change. Some of them are even a little annoyed by it. Do their negative opinions of my being healthier have any value whatsoever? My friends like fat guys. It's a thing in our ridiculous culture. It's also quite unhealthy and leads to early deaths. You apparently like to hate transgender people and want to force them to remain their biological gender. That also leads to health problems and early deaths.

Either way, I don't know Blanchard, but I don't inherently trust someone with a post-graduate degree and a few writing credits to his name. Homosexuality was a mental illness in the DSM. It isn't a very compelling argument to say, "Well, this guy says and he knows better than you," not when the argument is about what any human being can see with their own eyes (literally!). You really must do better.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-11-13 16:32:12
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Marking the adversary in soccer gets physical beyond just being wary of not to hurt.

When he or she is the same gender, yes.
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 Bismarck.Leneth
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By Bismarck.Leneth 2013-11-13 16:32:22
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I don't know how it is handled in other countries or sports, but in german youth leagues it is common that talented girls and boys play football together as long as it is possible. If the natural disadvantages, when growing up, get too big the genders are seperated to allow for best development chances.
This concept was not only no problem at all for the kids/teenagers once they got used to it, but it is also effective. Female national team won european championship again with a B11.

As for transgender laws, everyone in a society should be included and there will be ways found to convert law into practical solutions. No big deal~
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 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-13 16:33:21
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Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
It's an appeal to authority because you're using his credentials as a way to dismiss any criticism over your claim that transphobia is somehow more justified over homophobia.

Oh no. I think you misunderstood me then. Like I said from the get go. I am a firm supporter of transgenders students receiving access to gender specific facilities at the K-12 level to which they identify. Neither transphobia or homophobia are justified whatsoever, I'm just saying how they get accepted by individuals is a different process.

My point was that there are some visual differences when it comes accepting transexualism, particularly in the locker-rooms. Due to those visual differences I think there needs to be some sensitivity to both parties.

Los Angeles and San Francisco school districts have apparently had the policy implemented even before the law passed. But the two districts havn't gone on record publicly how they do so in detail. So I'm really curious to see how they've done it.
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-11-13 16:33:44
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Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
There's only a few ways it can get dicey in soccer, and that's if you're avoiding giving an accidental knee or ball to the nuggets to a guy
Pardon the slight diversion here, but I've always wondered: female genitals are not entirely internal and certainly not lacking for nerves. I'll grant that few things have the same pain potential as testicles, but doesn't an errant knee in the *** hurt, too? Or is it that because it only hurts as much as, say, getting kicked in the thigh that women choose to pretend it isn't that big a deal when compared to getting my dangly bits crushed?
 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-13 16:36:37
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Either way, I don't know Blanchard, but I don't inherently trust someone with a post-graduate degree and a few writing credits to his name.
Spoiler Alert! Click to view.
A few?! Really a few?! o.O

Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Actually, I wrote this before you started desperately hoping that citing another twerp would validate your argument.
Loaded Language

Get the *** off your high horse, seriously.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-11-13 16:37:09
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In official competitions I see this becoming just trouble turning into endless protests everytime someone doesn't know "how to lose".

But other than that...In hs we played soccer during gym boys and girls together and we'd just have tons of fun(yes, even when the usual juggler would go "I wanna mark you Stefi!!!" *gropy hands*). But you know, there's just some people that is overly sensitive about everything, trouble is bound to happen allowing mixed genders in these things.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-11-13 16:38:29
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
There's only a few ways it can get dicey in soccer, and that's if you're avoiding giving an accidental knee or ball to the nuggets to a guy
Pardon the slight diversion here, but I've always wondered: female genitals are not entirely internal and certainly not lacking for nerves. I'll grant that few things have the same pain potential as testicles, but doesn't an errant knee in the *** hurt, too? Or is it that because it only hurts as much as, say, getting kicked in the thigh that women choose to pretend it isn't that big a deal when compared to getting my dangly bits crushed?
Oh, it's plenty painful, trust me. Girls are just less likely to get hurt there I suppose since..well, it's not hanging around in the way of innocent gestures!
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 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-11-13 16:42:14
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THAT'S MY PURSE I DON'T KNOW YOU
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 Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2013-11-13 16:43:09
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It's a kick in the box!
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-11-13 16:44:41
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
My point was that there are some visual differences when it comes accepting transexualism, particularly in the locker-rooms. Due to those visual differences I think there needs to be some sensitivity to both parties.
Your point is very badly-made, then. I don't really trust it, either. I like to be upfront about that sort of thing.

Going along with your point that transgendered people (transsexual is a little different, chief -- for one, teenagers aren't eligible for reassignment surgery) might weird people out in the locker room, at what point do you say, "That's too bad."? I'm being serious here.

If we're talking purely aesthetics, I don't like circumcised penises. If I'm in the locker room, though, there's a (very small) chance that I might see one. Actually, there's a 100% chance because I was surgically altered without my consent as an infant. I can't really do anything about the fact that other men who are in a place where they need to change clothes in an orderly and efficient fashion have undergone a largely elective surgery that alters their appearance in a way that I find aesthetically unsatisfying. I'm not having nightmares or losing my lunch or even refusing to date someone because of it.

If I saw a dude strip down beside me AND I HAD NO SENSE OF BOUNDARIES WHATSOEVER such that I was watching him closely enough to see that he had a vagina instead of a penis (which you really do have to look closely for because most guys -- except old men with no shame -- don't leave their junk dangling in the breeze), yeah, I'd get weirded out. It doesn't impact my life, though, and I surely wouldn't use it as argumentation for anything.

Now if this person noticed that I got a little freaked out and started calling me on it, I have to admit, I'd get snippy with him. I find it a little obnoxious when people get defensive and loud when they know they're different. I wouldn't petition the gym to get him kicked out, though; I'd just make a point of avoiding him unless we could reconcile our differences. You know, that crazy thing that all human beings do.

Hey, fun little aside: I'm actually fairly conservative and I oppose the use of arbitrary legislation to enforce behavior. On the other hand, I'm not an idiot and I recognize that some people will use any excuse they can to engage in antisocial activity and, thus, certain legislation has to exist. It's a nasty little conundrum.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-11-13 16:46:26
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What if in your locker room there's a guy that tucks in??
 
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 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-11-13 16:49:40
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Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »
Loaded Language
At the risk of being meme-tastic: lrn2rhetoric. Of course I'm using loaded language, twit. It's an argument. How about you start responding to the points I've made instead of deflecting?

Don't worry: I know you can't.
 Bahamut.Baconwrap
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By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-11-13 16:57:18
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Your point is very badly-made, then. I don't really trust it, either. I like to be upfront about that sort of thing.
I like to be upfront too. This isn't the lets all listen to Onorgul thread. This is about discussing a variety of opinions conservative, liberal and moderate. It's about understanding different points of views. Or does that concept somehow escape you in that you are only able to hear yourself speak?
 Shiva.Onorgul
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-11-13 17:01:15
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Deflecting again.

If I was only interested in my own pontificating (though, for your edification, I will readily admit that I'm excessively verbose), I wouldn't be responding to your points. You know, that thing you haven't been doing in kind. If anyone is talking without engaging, it'd be you.

Oh, hey, it's my favorite psych term: projection. Quick, accuse me of being the one who's projecting, I dare you.
 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2013-11-13 17:01:34
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Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Caitsith.Zahrah said: »
There's only a few ways it can get dicey in soccer, and that's if you're avoiding giving an accidental knee or ball to the nuggets to a guy
Pardon the slight diversion here, but I've always wondered: female genitals are not entirely internal and certainly not lacking for nerves. I'll grant that few things have the same pain potential as testicles, but doesn't an errant knee in the *** hurt, too? Or is it that because it only hurts as much as, say, getting kicked in the thigh that women choose to pretend it isn't that big a deal when compared to getting my dangly bits crushed?

Yeah! That hurts (when it does happen), you eventually adapt to at least try to avoid that.

It becomes a matter of muscle memory avoiding that if you can anticipate it. When shots come to the pelvic region, after years of it, you eventually use that as an advantage when trapping or manuevering the ball. You don't even realize how you can gauge an accommodate your vertical accordingly to use your pelvic to below naval region when there's a high ball. It just rolls.

You mentioned you did dance, you know when you're practicing your 1/8 counts in dance until it's all muscle memory? Same thing but you're never conscious of yourself doing it, until you start thinking about it, like now, I guess?
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 Anna Ruthven
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By Anna Ruthven 2013-11-13 17:10:05
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This thread is kinda.. Wow.

As I've said before, as a kid, teen, and even today I have a morbid curiosity. I often look up things that most people would find "gross" or taboo to talk about. For a non-transgender heterosexual, I'd like to say I know quite a bit on the subject as it was one of the things I often wondered "how does that work?" about. I respect and sympathize with those who are transgender. Transitioning is not easy, it takes a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of responsibility and a lot of patience, love, and acceptance from loved ones. Unfortunately, that last one seems to be the one that many have a rough time with, from family, potential partners, and as this thread points out, society.

I don't claim to understand why people discriminate, I don't care if you're black, white, male, female, straight, gay, bisexual, transgender. Why? Because it has nothing to do with me, chances are it has nothing to do with those who fear or are offended by these individuals either.

Now, I think this thread has gone on long enough. I'm seeing name-calling and excessive profanity with actual respectable discussion of the topic sprinkled in. I am locking this thread now.

/bow
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