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Another police murder
Fenrir.Mesic
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 634
By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-29 20:47:49
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen.
Fairy.Spence
Server: Fairy
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Posts: 23779
By Fairy.Spence 2013-07-29 20:53:19
Aren't you supposed to aim for the center of mass?
Who knows if the dude was on some sort of drug and he kept on coming, but 3 shots would have put most people down. Another 6? Then a tazer just to make sure.
Shiva.Gib
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Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-07-29 20:53:50
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
But I would much rather have a cop defend him or herself then be possibly killed by some scum of humanity. I know, so ridiculous.
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Server: Odin
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Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-29 20:58:24
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Anyone who thinks like this shouldn't be allowed near a firearm of any kind. Some wounds are lethal, some are not, but a gun isn't a tool of incapacitation, it's a deadly arm and it has to be treated as such in all circumstances. It's a level of responsibility you have to be willing to take when you introduce these weapons in any scenario.
Besides, the Human body is a complex machine that can survive the most grievous of injuries, yet fall to the most benign cause. The difference between Lethal and nonlethal wounds is often a result of ballistic behavior not entirely the fault of the shooter.
Fenrir.Mesic
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By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-29 20:59:17
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
Yea you either shoot to kill or shoot the weapon out of their hand? Can't you think of any scenario outside of the ones you've seen in life or tv? Critical thinking time.
Fenrir.Mesic
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By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-29 21:01:41
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Anyone who thinks like this shouldn't be allowed near a firearm of any kind. Some wounds are lethal, some are not, but a gun isn't a tool of incapacitation, it's a deadly arm and it has to be treated as such in all circumstances. It's a level of responsibility you have to be willing to take when you introduce these weapons in any scenario.
Besides, the Human body is a complex machine that can survive the most grievous of injuries, yet fall to the most benign cause. The difference between Lethal and nonlethal wounds is often a result of ballistic behavior not entirely the fault of the shooter.
You're not making sense, if you're shooting not to kill and you end up killing you're just as bad as the default aiming to kill to begin with anyway, which are the types that have guns in this situation, so how could that be worse? Is it so harsh to expect Cops to have good aim? Jesus.
Fenrir.Mesic
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By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-29 21:03:44
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Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-07-29 21:04:17
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
Yea you either shoot to kill or shoot the weapon out of their hand? Can't you think of any scenario outside of the ones you've seen in life or tv? Critical thinking time. again, talking like a person that has no idea what they are talking about. You are basically using movie/video game logic in the real world. Making assumptions that shooting a guy once in the leg will incapacitate fully is something that would get your killed.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-29 21:05:24
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Anyone who thinks like this shouldn't be allowed near a firearm of any kind. Some wounds are lethal, some are not, but a gun isn't a tool of incapacitation, it's a deadly arm and it has to be treated as such in all circumstances. It's a level of responsibility you have to be willing to take when you introduce these weapons in any scenario.
Besides, the Human body is a complex machine that can survive the most grievous of injuries, yet fall to the most benign cause. The difference between Lethal and nonlethal wounds is often a result of ballistic behavior not entirely the fault of the shooter.
You're not making sense, if you're shooting not to kill and you end up killing you're just as bad as the default aiming to kill to begin with anyway, which are the types that have guns in this situation, so how could that be worse? Is it so harsh to expect Cops to have good aim? Jesus.
I think you're the one not making any sense.
A gun is always lethal. Seems pretty simple to me. The willingness to discharge a firearm at a person always carries the intent to kill. No exceptions.
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Fenrir.Mesic
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 634
By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-29 21:05:51
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
Yea you either shoot to kill or shoot the weapon out of their hand? Can't you think of any scenario outside of the ones you've seen in life or tv? Critical thinking time. again, talking like a person that has no idea what they are talking about. You are basically using movie/video game logic in the real world. Making assumptions that shooting a guy once in the leg will incapacitate fully is something that would get your killed.
Get you killed how? How is a guy with a shot in his leg, somehow more deadly then without a shot in their leg, what are you talking about?
Server: Odin
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-29 21:08:06
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
Yea you either shoot to kill or shoot the weapon out of their hand? Can't you think of any scenario outside of the ones you've seen in life or tv? Critical thinking time. again, talking like a person that has no idea what they are talking about. You are basically using movie/video game logic in the real world. Making assumptions that shooting a guy once in the leg will incapacitate fully is something that would get your killed.
Get you killed how? How is a guy with a shot in his leg, somehow more deadly then without a shot in their leg, what are you talking about?
Same way a cornered animal is more dangerous than one with an escape route. But people aren't animals right?
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Fenrir.Mesic
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 634
By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-29 21:08:51
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Anyone who thinks like this shouldn't be allowed near a firearm of any kind. Some wounds are lethal, some are not, but a gun isn't a tool of incapacitation, it's a deadly arm and it has to be treated as such in all circumstances. It's a level of responsibility you have to be willing to take when you introduce these weapons in any scenario.
Besides, the Human body is a complex machine that can survive the most grievous of injuries, yet fall to the most benign cause. The difference between Lethal and nonlethal wounds is often a result of ballistic behavior not entirely the fault of the shooter.
You're not making sense, if you're shooting not to kill and you end up killing you're just as bad as the default aiming to kill to begin with anyway, which are the types that have guns in this situation, so how could that be worse? Is it so harsh to expect Cops to have good aim? Jesus.
I think you're the one not making any sense.
A gun is always lethal. Seems pretty simple to me. The willingness to discharge a firearm at a person always carries the intent to kill. No exceptions.
No a gun isn't always lethal...Yes that logic is simple, but its not a part of reality so I dunno why you're talking about it.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-29 21:10:23
I think you're the one not making any sense.
A gun is always lethal. Seems pretty simple to me. The willingness to discharge a firearm at a person always carries the intent to kill. No exceptions.
No a gun isn't always lethal...Yes that logic is simple, but its not a part of reality so I dunno why you're talking about it.
You're an idiot if you really think that way. Please never acquire a firearm for the safety of those around you.
inb4 "it's the bullet that's lethal"
Shiva.Gib
Server: Shiva
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Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-07-29 21:11:34
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
Yea you either shoot to kill or shoot the weapon out of their hand? Can't you think of any scenario outside of the ones you've seen in life or tv? Critical thinking time. again, talking like a person that has no idea what they are talking about. You are basically using movie/video game logic in the real world. Making assumptions that shooting a guy once in the leg will incapacitate fully is something that would get your killed.
Get you killed how? How is a guy with a shot in his leg, somehow more deadly then without a shot in their leg, what are you talking about? Yep, a pissed off raging armed person is bound to calm down fully if you grazed their leg or just hit fatty tissue or just flat enough didn't cause enough trauma to handicap them.
Clearly.
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Fenrir.Mesic
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 634
By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-29 21:11:47
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
Yea you either shoot to kill or shoot the weapon out of their hand? Can't you think of any scenario outside of the ones you've seen in life or tv? Critical thinking time. again, talking like a person that has no idea what they are talking about. You are basically using movie/video game logic in the real world. Making assumptions that shooting a guy once in the leg will incapacitate fully is something that would get your killed.
Get you killed how? How is a guy with a shot in his leg, somehow more deadly then without a shot in their leg, what are you talking about?
Same way a cornered animal is more dangerous than one with an escape route. But people aren't animals right?
Depends on the animal and the context of the people surrounding him/her.
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2013-07-29 21:12:57
They had plenty of time in that video to aim for somewhere else, a spot that isn't as lethal as being shot in the chest or they could have shot him with a taser.
We had a similar situation here recently where a guy had killed an old woman and injured two others but the police fired a warning shot first and when the man wouldn't stop they shot him in the leg. When he STILL wouldn't stop (he was just crawling veeery slowly on the ground) they shot again and then went up with a long baton and hit the knife out of his hand.
He died from his wounds though but really, they couldn't have shot the guy once and then walked up and hit him with the baton when he was on the ground?
YouTube Video Placeholder
Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-07-29 21:12:58
A gun is a lethal weapon. Under any law in the US, if you fire a gun you are recognized as committing an act of lethal force, whether you kill someone or not.
Fenrir.Mesic
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 634
By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-29 21:13:46
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
Yea you either shoot to kill or shoot the weapon out of their hand? Can't you think of any scenario outside of the ones you've seen in life or tv? Critical thinking time. again, talking like a person that has no idea what they are talking about. You are basically using movie/video game logic in the real world. Making assumptions that shooting a guy once in the leg will incapacitate fully is something that would get your killed.
Get you killed how? How is a guy with a shot in his leg, somehow more deadly then without a shot in their leg, what are you talking about? Yep, a pissed off raging armed person is bound to calm down fully if you grazed their leg or just hit fatty tissue or just flat enough didn't cause enough trauma to handicap them.
Clearly.
We don't know how he would've reacted, cause we went straight for the kill, which is stupid and requires lil to no thought.
Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-07-29 21:15:18
I have 0 idea what your point just was. Could you clarify?
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Fenrir.Mesic
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 634
By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-29 21:16:28
Fenrir.Candlejack said: »Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
Yea you either shoot to kill or shoot the weapon out of their hand? Can't you think of any scenario outside of the ones you've seen in life or tv? Critical thinking time. again, talking like a person that has no idea what they are talking about. You are basically using movie/video game logic in the real world. Making assumptions that shooting a guy once in the leg will incapacitate fully is something that would get your killed.
Get you killed how? How is a guy with a shot in his leg, somehow more deadly then without a shot in their leg, what are you talking about?
Same way a cornered animal is more dangerous than one with an escape route. But people aren't animals right? There's an old saying Mesic needs to realize the truth of. "The cat on the bottom always wins". Why?
Why would the cat on the bottom win? Why not the cat on top? The cat on top has two paws and it's mouth, the cat on the bottom has all it's paws and it's mouth. The cat on the bottom is also technically a cornered animal and will do whatever it takes to come out alive. This is why the cat on the bottom will always win.
This also applies to this situation. Sammy Yatim was cornered in a bus. He was the figurative cat on the bottom. The cops would be the cats on top.
Even though humans follow some sense of logic in most cases, in a "fight or flight" situation, when cornered, there's no telling how a person will react. Whether they will choose to fight, choose to flee, or roll over and surrender, is up to the individual and his or her state of mind depending on the situation presented to them.
I digress, however. Gun thread, needs to be locked and left to die.
Except the cat on the bottom in your scenario has more weapons, you're comparing this sang to a guy surrounded by guns as the cat on bottom, and as if he thought he had to fight for his life against cops and there was no other way for him to live. Fail analogy.
Shiva.Gib
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Posts: 1264
By Shiva.Gib 2013-07-29 21:16:50
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
Yea you either shoot to kill or shoot the weapon out of their hand? Can't you think of any scenario outside of the ones you've seen in life or tv? Critical thinking time. again, talking like a person that has no idea what they are talking about. You are basically using movie/video game logic in the real world. Making assumptions that shooting a guy once in the leg will incapacitate fully is something that would get your killed.
Get you killed how? How is a guy with a shot in his leg, somehow more deadly then without a shot in their leg, what are you talking about? Yep, a pissed off raging armed person is bound to calm down fully if you grazed their leg or just hit fatty tissue or just flat enough didn't cause enough trauma to handicap them.
Clearly.
We don't know how he would've reacted, cause we went straight for the kill, which is stupid and requires lil to no thought. it's so easy to suggest and make assumptions when your well being isn't on the line.
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-29 21:17:21
This isn't even supposed to be a gun thread, it's supposed to be a stupid cops and stupid kid thread, but even Google seems to have thrown in the towel, because I got ads that talk about how Obama supports the UN Small arms ban.
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Fenrir.Mesic
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 634
By Fenrir.Mesic 2013-07-29 21:30:09
Bismarck.Dracondria said: »You could, oh I don't know, shoot somewhere that isn't fatal?
Lol and i cant believe you're still responding to Gib after some of the most ridiculous posts ive ever seen. Really? you need to actually read up on police law and polices and stop watching action movies or old westerns.
Oh of course they wouldn't draw weapons to kill, they would do it so they could slow mo dive and shoot the weapons out of their hands. Seriously.
Yea you either shoot to kill or shoot the weapon out of their hand? Can't you think of any scenario outside of the ones you've seen in life or tv? Critical thinking time. again, talking like a person that has no idea what they are talking about. You are basically using movie/video game logic in the real world. Making assumptions that shooting a guy once in the leg will incapacitate fully is something that would get your killed.
Get you killed how? How is a guy with a shot in his leg, somehow more deadly then without a shot in their leg, what are you talking about? Yep, a pissed off raging armed person is bound to calm down fully if you grazed their leg or just hit fatty tissue or just flat enough didn't cause enough trauma to handicap them.
Clearly.
We don't know how he would've reacted, cause we went straight for the kill, which is stupid and requires lil to no thought. it's so easy to suggest and make assumptions when your well being isn't on the line. what's the excuse for not using a tazer again I must have missed that.
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By Quiznor 2013-07-29 21:36:33
I think you're the one not making any sense.
A gun is always lethal. Seems pretty simple to me. The willingness to discharge a firearm at a person always carries the intent to kill. No exceptions.
No a gun isn't always lethal...Yes that logic is simple, but its not a part of reality so I dunno why you're talking about it.
You're an idiot if you really think that way. Please never acquire a firearm for the safety of those around you.
inb4 "it's the bullet that's lethal"
"You killed him!"
"No I shot him. The bullets and the fall killed him"
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-29 21:37:55
Assuming what you said is true, and it was a contact Taser, I'd still say the cops overreacted. They had him outnumbered and surrounded, and as far as I can tell, nobody was in immediate danger. They could have held their ground and waited for another solution. (Like a reliable non-lethal solution)
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Siren.Flavin
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By Siren.Flavin 2013-07-29 21:55:13
For those of you questioning where the officers shot the kid you should probably read up on how they train officers to shoot once they've made the decision to do so... You might be surprised lol... If you ever put yourself in a position, in the US at least, where a cop decides to actually shoot at you don't expect them to ever turn into the lone ranger and shoot the weapon out of your hand before he ropes you and drags you down to the station...
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Server: Odin
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-07-29 22:03:22
For those of you questioning where the officers shot the kid you should probably read up on how they train officers to shoot once they've made the decision to do so... You might be surprised lol... If you ever put yourself in a position, in the US at least, where a cop decides to actually shoot at you don't expect them to ever turn into the lone ranger and shoot the weapon out of your hand before he ropes you and drags you down to the station...
What did Mel Gibson say in that shitty 1776 movie? Aim small, miss small? Unless you're an exhibition shooter, you always aim for center of mass, even Snipers are trained to.
Quote: Sammy Yatim, 18, was shot at least 9 times by police after brandishing a knife on a Dundas Street W. streetcar near Trinity Bellwoods Park. YouTube Video Placeholder
Calling the cops "fucking pussies" gets you shot 9 times and then tasered in Toronto now.
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