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[Dev] Delve Updates, Holding Times & Bosses
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-08 16:23:39
Groups can't outright ignore fight mechanics for many of these NMs. In fact, use of the mechanics leads to easier and more efficient wins. Just because the goal is still to deal lots of damage in the shortest window possible doesn't make it a total zerg.
[+]
Lakshmi.Feint
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 332
By Lakshmi.Feint 2013-05-08 16:35:19
which fights are you referring to.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-08 16:59:24
'Fight mechanics' may be too generous of a word, actually. Probably better described as fight gimmicks. But the craklaw, chapuli, crab, and adamantoise are some examples.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 17:15:26
I actually don't see the jobs you listed under low man content when it comes to NNI, Salvage or meebles often. Abyssea yeah.
Maybe I spoke a little too soon but it does seem at times that certain jobs just aren't popular in endgame content.
I think SE did a decent job in trying to include multiple jobs in VW, but the content itself was kind of meh (WS spam and getting procs wasn't exactly difficult). With delve, it just seems like a zergfest again ><.
People are picky about what they bring to meebles
I don't even
WHY
(this also goes for salvage but that's beside the point)
Lakshmi.Feint
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 332
By Lakshmi.Feint 2013-05-08 18:20:26
I'm aware that other jobs do work. It is just that select jobs are just preferred.
I don't know how many times I've been asked to come Sam.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-05-08 19:02:56
Bismarck.Ravenously said: »SAM WAR DRK onry
This is where SE *** up and other MMOs do a better job.
How many of the 22 jobs are regularly used in end-game content?
Alliance content
WHM
RDM (JPs and high-tier shells)
BRD
SMN
BLM
MNK
SAM
WAR
DRK
DRG (with Mythic so probably doesn't count)
COR
GEO * (new front)
PLD
SCH
RNG
Used mostly in low-man content ***
BST
DNC
PUP **
NIN
BLU
Currently little to no use
RUN
Treasure Hunter
THF
* job is actually quite powerful for alliance content
** job has seen a significant increase in power in the most recent update and is probably functional in higher content
***low man content is mostly irrelevant right now but that will probably change
Horse ***!
It's
Support Crew
WHM
BRD
COR
Buffed DDs
WAR
DRK
SAM
MNK (Forgot to put them in there originally)
Holding Team
PLD
Misc Guys
THF (TH ***)
SCH/BLM (Stun ***)
Those are the A list jobs that get brought to everything. The B list alternatives / special teams are.
If no other DD can be found
DRG
RNG
If special fight mechanics require them, chosen on a per-fight basis.
SMN
BLM
RDM (Dia III)
The "not no but hell no" guys are
NIN (Forgot to add earlier)
BST
DNC
PUP
RUN
GEO
BLU (if your really bad *** and the leader knows your bad *** you ~might~ be put in the tank party, maybe, if they have a free spot and nothing else to put there).
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 19:03:45
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 19:08:29
No but seriously it's like you didn't read my post at all
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2507
By Asura.Calatilla 2013-05-08 19:09:12
No love for MNK or NIN?
Ragnarok.Hotkarl
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 520
By Ragnarok.Hotkarl 2013-05-08 19:20:52
Geo is awesome in delve. I would never say "hell no"
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 19:23:04
Saevel just doesn't actually play with good groups which explains why his posts are generally worse than even pchan + pchan2's
[+]
By Lye 2013-05-08 19:26:33
Horse ***!
It's
Support Crew
WHM
BRD
COR
Buffed DDs
WAR
DRK
SAM
Holding Team
PLD
Misc Guys
THF (TH ***)
SCH/BLM (Stun ***)
Those are the A list jobs that get brought to everything. The B list alternatives / special teams are.
If no other DD can be found
DRG
RNG
If special fight mechanics require them, chosen on a per-fight basis.
SMN
BLM
RDM (Dia III)
The "not no but hell no" guys are
BST
DNC
PUP
RUN
GEO
BLU (if your really bad *** and the leader knows your bad *** you ~might~ be put in the tank party, maybe, if they have a free spot and nothing else to put there).
2 Jobs are missing. Are they so bad we don't even say their names?
Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-05-08 19:29:42
MNK is going to curbstomp SAM/WAR/DRK for most things, and Ryu is surprisingly still a top contender
[+]
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 585
By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2013-05-08 19:32:05
Geo is awesome in delve. I would never say "hell no"
This is a joke, right?
By Tickmeoff 2013-05-08 19:33:24
(PUP) has seen a significant increase in power in the most recent update and is probably functional in higher content
Is the Alternator really that amazing?
Lakshmi.Feint
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 332
By Lakshmi.Feint 2013-05-08 19:37:13
MNK is going to curbstomp SAM/WAR/DRK for most things, and Ryu is surprisingly still a top contender
Has that ever happened?
I remember when boost boost boost was the ***.
Phoenix.Urteil
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
By Phoenix.Urteil 2013-05-08 19:39:41
I'd take a geomancer* 100% of the time if I could, MNK is great defensively, strong damage output and at many times a safer choice.
A good ranger party is the ***, backed up by a Corsair and a Bard who just pummel NM's from long distance.
Ragnarok.Hotkarl
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 520
By Ragnarok.Hotkarl 2013-05-08 19:40:16
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »Geo is awesome in delve. I would never say "hell no"
This is a joke, right? Amazing job, sorry you haven't realized that yet.
[+]
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 19:40:23
Ragnarok.Presidentobama said: »Geo is awesome in delve. I would never say "hell no"
This is a joke, right?
No
All (or most anyway) who are successfully farming NMs in Delve are using GEO
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 585
By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2013-05-08 19:44:23
My Shell has never asked. I do have a maxed geo, I should try it out. But as we run so often I cant see how their stationary pet would be useful.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 19:45:58
Maybe you should stop running NMs around
(notice I specifically said farming NMs)
[+]
By GodBae 2013-05-08 19:49:29
game isn't fair, i just want some items like everyone else
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 19:57:55
game isn't fair, i just want some items like everyone else
it's ok maybe a real linkshell will invite you to leech off their bead farming
By Lye 2013-05-08 20:07:13
game isn't fair, i just want some items like everyone else
it's ok maybe a real linkshell will invite you to leech off their bead farming
Not one of those "fake" linkshells.
By Solrain 2013-05-08 20:08:10
Someone needs to photoshop the date in Ed's pocketwatch from FMA.
Quick and messy but here ya go.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 20:09:15
game isn't fair, i just want some items like everyone else
it's ok maybe a real linkshell will invite you to leech off their bead farming
Not one of those "fake" linkshells.
give gimps a chance
iwagami said so
Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-05-08 20:12:56
MNK is going to curbstomp SAM/WAR/DRK for most things, and Ryu is surprisingly still a top contender
Followup for the sake of not misleading anyone: while I'm having no trouble maintaining a hefty lead over Rigor-users in my linkshell, I see little to no reason to play any DD job that isn't MNK(unless you literally cannot melee something safely on any job, in which case RNG)
Finally got around to bringing up MNK up to speed, and I have no intention of going back to Ryunohige so long as DRG's damage is only moderately ahead and the likelihood of dying is immensely higher
Leviathan.Kaparu
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 949
By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-05-08 20:18:22
That's just our perspective, though. And to be fair, people who need this type of strategical nuance explained to them were likely just locked out of any real Delve progress with this update, so eh
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 20:23:03
MNK is great but you'll probably want at least one alternate form of DD for the Delve NMs that warrant SC/MB
03-15-2013 06:15 PM |
| | Long Holding Times for Delve NMs
Hello, Iwagami here.
First off, thanks so much for all of the comments. I've read through them all.
In addition to the feedback from those who have participated in Delve and those that have not, hearing feedback before you tried it out and then once again after having tried it out has contributed a lot to our discussion. This decision was made after personally interpreting all of the comments received, so even if it is not fully in accordance with your wishes, I'd appreciate it if you could understand our reasoning.
Before the result of our discussion, I'd like to let you know about one bug.
We've determined a bug where Mastop's magic and abilities are affecting players outside of the fighting alliance, and we will be fixing this immediately. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.
Discussion result
Now then, I would like to inform you all of the result from our adjustment plan discussion.
After sharing what I wanted to do for the adjustment, there were a lot more comments agreeing with the feedback posted, and also considering that these battles would increase moving forward in order to procure Yggzi Beads, we will be making adjustments so that these monsters do not go into hyper-mode, but will disappear after 20 minutes.
The reason we predict an increase in battles for Yggzi Beads
The two reasons why we foresee an increase in battles for Yggzi Beads are:
Due to the fact that the drop rate of Yggzi Beads are not that high, it will be necessary to fight these NMs multiple times in order to obtain them. Design-wise we thought this would also give new comers to the Delve content an opportunity to participate. While in actuality there may be some who say "don’t come do Delve unless you have Delve equipment," we’d appreciate if you would keep in mind that we designed this system to give these players an opportunity. With that said, making a 100% drop rate for Yggzi Beads or increasing the drop rate would make it difficult for newcomers, so currently we do not want to do this. We'd really be grateful if those of you who are experienced could invite these newcomers to take on this content when you have the ability to do so. Also, the triggers for Delve can be found in reives and as drops from monsters in the zone at a decent rate, so even if you are inexperienced, definitely try to give it a shot and gather members who aren’t worried about losing.
Regarding feedback to keep as it is now
There's also been comments mentioning to keep it as it is now and to wait until the monsters can be defeated in 15 minutes, but due to the below reasons I cannot agree with this.
The battles will become easier as more information is circulated
It's easy to re-challenge
It's easy to check whether you are lacking preparation
We would like to eliminate the congestion between now and when you can all defeat them in 15 minutes.
Regarding feedback to increase the "???" points
While I am repeating what I said previously, the below reasons are why we will not be increasing the number of "???" points at the current time.
We would like to avoid lag issues from having multiple points positioned nearby.
Considering future content, we don't want to use up too much in areas that are further away.
There will not be any cost effectiveness as pros and cons will arise from having them further away.
Also, while it's possible to spawn any NM from a single spot, we actually looked into doing this before implementation; however, problems arose with claiming trigger points and we also wanted players to adventure, so we cut this idea. We always have to consider the trade off even though we want to relieve congestion, and though it might sometimes be difficult for the development side and the player side to match up, we'd really appreciate your understand with this as we move forward.
It may appear that I've only extracted the portions of feedback that were suited to what I was thinking, but most of you are in agreement and I apologize that this system became something different than we had imagined initially. With that said, we have decided to adopt a time limit for Delve monsters fought in the field.
I've also made an announcement about additional adjustments that will be made to delve below.
Thank you very much. | |
03-15-2013 06:15 PM |
| | Adjustments to the conditions for unlocking the boss room in Delve
Hello, Iwagami here.
We will be performing an adjustment on the conditions to unlock the boss room in Delve. This is something that has already been finalized, so I would like to let you know what we will be adjusting and our reasoning.
Adjustment
Pre-adjustment: The boss room will unlock by either defeating all of the NMs or after a set amount of time has elapsed.
Post-adjustment: The boss room will unlock after only defeating all of the NMs.
Reason 1
The first reason is that we want to bring the pace of this content in line with what we had originally envisioned -- adventurers would defeat all of the NMs one by one and then take on the boss, as opposed to waiting for the time to elapse until the room opens up and then fighting the boss. If it were content where you would only take on a boss, then we feel it would be more enjoyable without the wait time to make a battlefield where there is only a boss.
With that said, the NMs that appear inside Delve each have their own special traits. The concept of Delve is to think of a party setup that will make it easier to fight multiple NMs and the boss, and there is a good margin for strategy from person to person depending on how you would like to fight and what NMs you chose to avoid and defeat. This is also why we have the element of having at least three consecutive battles inside even if you use the maximum amount of Yggzi Beads.
Reason 2
The second reason is that it's difficult to convey the method in which to take on a fracture with the objective of defeating the boss. Currently the boss room will open after a set amount of time has passed or if all of the NMs have been defeated. Unlocking the boss room after a set amount of time is similar to having the field NMs go into hyper mode, and this is causing the battle to become stagnant as you wait. Due to this, you are left with only a minimal amount of time to defeat the boss. We feel that having it so the boss would spawn after a set amount of time was making it difficult to convey the advantages of quickly eliminating the NMs along the way.
Due to the above two reasons we will be making adjustments so that the boss room is unlocked only after defeating all of the NMs.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the first adventurers defeat the boss. Thank you very much. | |
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