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[Dev] Delve Updates, Holding Times & Bosses
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 11:26:45
We still use a PLD when killing NMs inside the fracture going for speed soooo
You just need to put the PLD in the DD party - give them real bufs - and you should use Requiescat (it bypasses most of the NMs damage resistances )
They won't be able to hold hate the entire time but they'll be able to do it enough
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-05-08 11:34:12
Has this effected plasm farming from inside the fractures? Originally I thought they were locking the walls between the different NM groups but now it's sounding like only the mega boss will be locked behind a wall. Do we still have access to the monsters around the Tier IV/V NM areas?
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 11:34:50
I guess we'll find out in a few hours!
Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2013-05-08 11:35:08
Has this effected plasm farming from inside the fractures? Originally I thought they were locking the walls between the different NM groups but now it's sounding like only the mega boss will be locked behind a wall. Do we still have access to the monsters around the Tier IV/V NM areas?
Will only effect the best groups that farm the boss chamber.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 802
By Asura.Hoshiku 2013-05-08 11:35:23
cor rotations T.T
they're ok as long as you don't double up on a six and the party leaders aren't idiots... but how often does that happen :x
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 11:36:31
If you're not doubling up on a 6 you should have been a BRD!
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-05-08 11:37:15
People that don't double on 6 are pussies!
Valefor.Sapphire
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1828
By Valefor.Sapphire 2013-05-08 11:43:29
winning streak merits+aug'd comm. tricorne ftw because who wants to reroll double 11s constantly.
I'm trying to do damage here!
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 11:45:59
I'm actually going to start bringing my Melee set on COR and using Requiescat
It's fairly effective at getting through NMs with PDT (Crabs etc) snd I end up with BRD buffs anyhow
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Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-05-08 11:49:57
They won't be able to hold hate the entire time but they'll be able to do it enough just a side note, if you have a decent amount of chars at something and players who are good with party swapping, animus minuo and using a song on dirge will lock the mob on your pld
Bismarck.Xellan
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19
By Bismarck.Xellan 2013-05-08 12:02:24
So glad that I'm 6/6 on KI's already, even if a couple of those fights took long. I can't imagine what 20-minute tier IV/V kills would look like under the current paradigm. Even multiple Wild Cards and Zantetsukens aren't going to get you there.
My only concerns with this update are that either A.) they screw around with the NMs in Fracture and make it so that you have to use Yggzi Beads each run to avoid dealing with NMs, instead of just allowing a Twilight Paladin to zombie and hold them, or B.) that all those mobs in the Boss Room aren't moved outside of the room in order to give us more stuff to kill. Repops would start to become a problem, otherwise.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 12:04:26
So glad that I'm 6/6 on KI's already, even if a couple of those fights took long. I can't imagine what 20-minute tier IV/V kills would look like under the current paradigm. Even multiple Wild Cards and Zantetsukens aren't going to get you there.
My only concerns with this update are that either A.) they screw around with the NMs in Fracture and make it so that you have to use Yggzi Beads each run to avoid dealing with NMs, instead of just allowing a Twilight Paladin to zombie and hold them, or B.) that all those mobs in the Boss Room aren't moved outside of the room in order to give us more stuff to kill. Repops would start to become a problem, otherwise.
I missed the part of the update where they nerfed BRD and COR
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 298
By Siren.Piccollo 2013-05-08 12:05:21
It seems to me this update is going to negatively affect the players who are least well equipped to deal with these new monsters and events most and i for one think its a huge pity that we cant just keep it the way it was, ive had so much fun over the past few days doing the T5 nm's in pickup groups its been great old school strategys with a new twist lots of people working together (regardless of gear) such a pity se has decided to do this and it seems its the players who dont realise how affected they will be are the ones to be affected most.
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Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 12:06:31
It seems to me this update is going to negatively affect the players who are least well equipped to deal with these new monsters and events
This is probably one of the unstated reasons that they are making this change in the first place
Lakshmi.Feint
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 332
By Lakshmi.Feint 2013-05-08 12:10:02
It seems to me this update is going to negatively affect the players who are least well equipped to deal with these new monsters and events most and i for one think its a huge pity that we cant just keep it the way it was, ive had so much fun over the past few days doing the T5 nm's in pickup groups its been great old school strategys with a new twist lots of people working together (regardless of gear) such a pity se has decided to do this and it seems its the players who dont realise how affected they will be are the ones to be affected most.
It'll also affect players who don't have the time to join a larger linkshell.
It was fun doing some of the nms old school style. Oh well.
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By Chyula 2013-05-08 12:12:13
I don't know how the hell 20mins timer will make sense. Did Kurma last night and it was a pain to time the god damn nukes within tp animation duration. The fight took well over 2hrs with well equiped players.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 610
By Sylph.Washburn 2013-05-08 12:14:41
I don't know how the hell 20mins timer will make sense. Did Kurma last night and it was a pain to time the god damn nukes within tp animation duration. The fight took well over 2hrs with well equiped players.
try a party of sch using imminence on Kurma and see how that works.
By glass 2013-05-08 12:14:48
I don't understand what you guys griping about he taking the rage off the mob at 15min in that's what was killing everyone at 15min boom alliance started wipeing and that's why you went into 30,40,50 min fights. so now you got 20 min to kill the nm with no rage. and if that's not good enough you go in fracture and you have 45min for t1,t2,t3 without rage and 30min for t4,t5. he just made it easier to kill field nm's. nothing has changed its not a zerg same party setup will be just as good if you cant kill the nm without rage timer in 20 min just go back to where you belong abbyssea.
Bismarck.Xellan
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19
By Bismarck.Xellan 2013-05-08 12:16:32
So glad that I'm 6/6 on KI's already, even if a couple of those fights took long. I can't imagine what 20-minute tier IV/V kills would look like under the current paradigm. Even multiple Wild Cards and Zantetsukens aren't going to get you there.
My only concerns with this update are that either A.) they screw around with the NMs in Fracture and make it so that you have to use Yggzi Beads each run to avoid dealing with NMs, instead of just allowing a Twilight Paladin to zombie and hold them, or B.) that all those mobs in the Boss Room aren't moved outside of the room in order to give us more stuff to kill. Repops would start to become a problem, otherwise.
I missed the part of the update where they nerfed BRD and COR
I missed the part of the update where that sweater makes your *** look fat.
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Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-05-08 12:17:12
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Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 12:18:23
So glad that I'm 6/6 on KI's already, even if a couple of those fights took long. I can't imagine what 20-minute tier IV/V kills would look like under the current paradigm. Even multiple Wild Cards and Zantetsukens aren't going to get you there.
My only concerns with this update are that either A.) they screw around with the NMs in Fracture and make it so that you have to use Yggzi Beads each run to avoid dealing with NMs, instead of just allowing a Twilight Paladin to zombie and hold them, or B.) that all those mobs in the Boss Room aren't moved outside of the room in order to give us more stuff to kill. Repops would start to become a problem, otherwise.
I missed the part of the update where they nerfed BRD and COR
I missed the part of the update where that sweater makes your *** look fat.
That would be pretty impressive for a sweater
[+]
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 585
By Ragnarok.Presidentobama 2013-05-08 12:19:09
I don't know how the hell 20mins timer will make sense. Did Kurma last night and it was a pain to time the god damn nukes within tp animation duration. The fight took well over 2hrs with well equiped players.
try a party of sch using imminence on Kurma and see how that works.
I did ths win twice on my scholar. Our sameri was a joke. So I did solo many fusions and distortions. All the blms got their MBs off much easier. 100% works every time.
Sam's are worthless.
miss, miss miss, or worse miss upon a weapon skill they do..
By Althyk 2013-05-08 12:20:06
Can someone summarize all this into something easier to understand? Cause read everything through and I'm still confused as ***.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 12:20:50
Can someone summarize all this into something easier to understand? Cause read everything through and I'm still confused as ***.
Don't wear your sweater on your *** and you're good to go
By Althyk 2013-05-08 12:21:57
I don't know how the hell 20mins timer will make sense. Did Kurma last night and it was a pain to time the god damn nukes within tp animation duration. The fight took well over 2hrs with well equiped players.
It was cause mofos didn't figure out to time it properly till we were 1.5 hrs into the fight...
By Althyk 2013-05-08 12:24:29
Can someone summarize all this into something easier to understand? Cause read everything through and I'm still confused as ***.
Don't wear your sweater on your *** and you're good to go But it's cold
Caitsith.Mahayaya
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3341
By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2013-05-08 12:38:32
COR rotations aren't bad with 5/5 Winning Streak, that Relic+2 thing, reduced Phantom Roll recast, and a Random Deal. The only thing is that you'll have to switch up the rolls for at least one party in order for the "same roll activated" crap to not show up unless you want to Fold a proper roll.
Obviously it makes you a lot more careful about how you roll, especially on 6's when you don't have Snake Eye up.
Just be sure people understand that COR needs to start rolls long before BRDs do their rotations.
Ragnarok.Lhayla
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3
By Ragnarok.Lhayla 2013-05-08 12:39:39
So with 20min rage I saw lots of players employing various strategies to clear the T4-5 NMs. In pick up groups I saw:
-PLDs actually tanking and holding the boss in position for long periods of time.
-I saw DDs /THF building TP on local mobs to blast 100% acc WS.
-I saw skill chains being coordinated.
-I saw magic bursts(!).
-I even saw some mages talking about what compass position to stand (assuming some kinda geo factor).
-I saw a RDM casting debuffs.
Now, a lot of these tactics are non-optimal and arguably wastes of time compared to zerging. But, for the first time in years fighting reminded me of the old ffxi days against sky gods and ground kings. I didn't care if there was a "better" strategy because it was fun to just jump in and fight it out.
This was possible because there were TWO viable methods to best these NMs:
1) Have baddass gearz and Zerg it down in less than 20 mins.
2) Just don't give up
This update (20min depop) deletes option (2). It deletes the leeway for various strategy (ranging from efficient to wildly inefficient). It deletes the leniency on current gear and job selection. It deletes the leeway to let friends or newer players in because pt spot opportunity cost is higher.
Welcome back to ffxi-6brd-6cor-outside-ally-mule-rotation-mash-WS-macro-zerg-or-gtfo.
Just finished my Ryunohige99 and I can't WAIT to be told ((thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass.))
Couldnt agree more with Erii. Recently I did a Mastop with a pick-up group. It started all serious with a 3-brd rotation, CORS, etc... And, after 2 hours+, it ended up with people taking it into Adoulin's border and having half of the alliance changing to SMN. I felt like doing Kirin for the 1st time. Nonetheless, we won. Ad it was awesome, it was epic.
And SE just killed it, lol, go figure...
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-05-08 12:40:23
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »COR rotations aren't bad with 5/5 Winning Streak, that Relic+2 thing, reduced Phantom Roll recast, and a Random Deal. The only thing is that you'll have to switch up the rolls for at least one party in order for the "same roll activated" crap to not show up unless you want to Fold a proper roll.
Obviously it makes you a lot more careful about how you roll, especially on 6's when you don't have Snake Eye up.
Just be sure people understand that COR needs to start rolls long before BRDs do their rotations.
I sort of disagree - if you're going to rotate CORs I think you should do the second set of rolls during the fight otherwise things are probably going to start wearing off (unless it's a really short fight) and you're going to be rolling during the fight anyway
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 96
By Siren.Taruina 2013-05-08 12:42:07
I really hate to say it, but yeah. The update screws people who have to shout for stuff.
In other news, asking BRDs to keep dia on an NM is hard labor.
03-15-2013 06:15 PM |
| | Long Holding Times for Delve NMs
Hello, Iwagami here.
First off, thanks so much for all of the comments. I've read through them all.
In addition to the feedback from those who have participated in Delve and those that have not, hearing feedback before you tried it out and then once again after having tried it out has contributed a lot to our discussion. This decision was made after personally interpreting all of the comments received, so even if it is not fully in accordance with your wishes, I'd appreciate it if you could understand our reasoning.
Before the result of our discussion, I'd like to let you know about one bug.
We've determined a bug where Mastop's magic and abilities are affecting players outside of the fighting alliance, and we will be fixing this immediately. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.
Discussion result
Now then, I would like to inform you all of the result from our adjustment plan discussion.
After sharing what I wanted to do for the adjustment, there were a lot more comments agreeing with the feedback posted, and also considering that these battles would increase moving forward in order to procure Yggzi Beads, we will be making adjustments so that these monsters do not go into hyper-mode, but will disappear after 20 minutes.
The reason we predict an increase in battles for Yggzi Beads
The two reasons why we foresee an increase in battles for Yggzi Beads are:
Due to the fact that the drop rate of Yggzi Beads are not that high, it will be necessary to fight these NMs multiple times in order to obtain them. Design-wise we thought this would also give new comers to the Delve content an opportunity to participate. While in actuality there may be some who say "don’t come do Delve unless you have Delve equipment," we’d appreciate if you would keep in mind that we designed this system to give these players an opportunity. With that said, making a 100% drop rate for Yggzi Beads or increasing the drop rate would make it difficult for newcomers, so currently we do not want to do this. We'd really be grateful if those of you who are experienced could invite these newcomers to take on this content when you have the ability to do so. Also, the triggers for Delve can be found in reives and as drops from monsters in the zone at a decent rate, so even if you are inexperienced, definitely try to give it a shot and gather members who aren’t worried about losing.
Regarding feedback to keep as it is now
There's also been comments mentioning to keep it as it is now and to wait until the monsters can be defeated in 15 minutes, but due to the below reasons I cannot agree with this.
The battles will become easier as more information is circulated
It's easy to re-challenge
It's easy to check whether you are lacking preparation
We would like to eliminate the congestion between now and when you can all defeat them in 15 minutes.
Regarding feedback to increase the "???" points
While I am repeating what I said previously, the below reasons are why we will not be increasing the number of "???" points at the current time.
We would like to avoid lag issues from having multiple points positioned nearby.
Considering future content, we don't want to use up too much in areas that are further away.
There will not be any cost effectiveness as pros and cons will arise from having them further away.
Also, while it's possible to spawn any NM from a single spot, we actually looked into doing this before implementation; however, problems arose with claiming trigger points and we also wanted players to adventure, so we cut this idea. We always have to consider the trade off even though we want to relieve congestion, and though it might sometimes be difficult for the development side and the player side to match up, we'd really appreciate your understand with this as we move forward.
It may appear that I've only extracted the portions of feedback that were suited to what I was thinking, but most of you are in agreement and I apologize that this system became something different than we had imagined initially. With that said, we have decided to adopt a time limit for Delve monsters fought in the field.
I've also made an announcement about additional adjustments that will be made to delve below.
Thank you very much. | |
03-15-2013 06:15 PM |
| | Adjustments to the conditions for unlocking the boss room in Delve
Hello, Iwagami here.
We will be performing an adjustment on the conditions to unlock the boss room in Delve. This is something that has already been finalized, so I would like to let you know what we will be adjusting and our reasoning.
Adjustment
Pre-adjustment: The boss room will unlock by either defeating all of the NMs or after a set amount of time has elapsed.
Post-adjustment: The boss room will unlock after only defeating all of the NMs.
Reason 1
The first reason is that we want to bring the pace of this content in line with what we had originally envisioned -- adventurers would defeat all of the NMs one by one and then take on the boss, as opposed to waiting for the time to elapse until the room opens up and then fighting the boss. If it were content where you would only take on a boss, then we feel it would be more enjoyable without the wait time to make a battlefield where there is only a boss.
With that said, the NMs that appear inside Delve each have their own special traits. The concept of Delve is to think of a party setup that will make it easier to fight multiple NMs and the boss, and there is a good margin for strategy from person to person depending on how you would like to fight and what NMs you chose to avoid and defeat. This is also why we have the element of having at least three consecutive battles inside even if you use the maximum amount of Yggzi Beads.
Reason 2
The second reason is that it's difficult to convey the method in which to take on a fracture with the objective of defeating the boss. Currently the boss room will open after a set amount of time has passed or if all of the NMs have been defeated. Unlocking the boss room after a set amount of time is similar to having the field NMs go into hyper mode, and this is causing the battle to become stagnant as you wait. Due to this, you are left with only a minimal amount of time to defeat the boss. We feel that having it so the boss would spawn after a set amount of time was making it difficult to convey the advantages of quickly eliminating the NMs along the way.
Due to the above two reasons we will be making adjustments so that the boss room is unlocked only after defeating all of the NMs.
I'm really looking forward to seeing the first adventurers defeat the boss. Thank you very much. | |
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