For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

In sheet both Gleti's and Shinryu dagger seems to be about the same for capped attack. For uncapped Gleti's wins. That for Hybrid set. For Glass Cannon set, Gleti's wins even for capped attack.

That being said sheet doesn't count TP drain (I might figure out some way to add it, if I know the details of how it works).

I used gleti's at Rank 0 and I was very happy with it. Rank 20 gleti's definitely does trump ternion +1 though. It's been mathed pretty heavily on both the dancer and thf forms and the conclusion was the same. I'm not sure about Rank 0 or what point it would overtake though.



Most rank 20 nyame pieces actually downgrade rudra's storm damage over our existing options. I've run some basic math on them and came up with this. You can use it as a baseline


R20 Nyame comparisons for Sneak or trick attack rudra's

---Artifact Head +3 is approximately 4-5% stronger than R 20 Nyame. This one doesn't surprise me at all. Pillager's bonnet +3 has more dex and both 5% crit damage and 6% WSD on it.

---Relic Body +3 and Meghanada Cuirie +1 are a complete wash. I'm seeing relic +3 leading by approximately half a percent, but it's too close to care about.

---Meghanada Hands +1 versus Nyame hands is the same as body. Meghanada leads by approximately half a percent. Pretty much a complete wash.

---Relic legs +3 are approximately 1.5-2% stronger than R 20 Nyame. The reason is because Plunderer's Culottes has 21 dex on them and Nyame flanchard has no dex whatsoever. The 21 dex overcompensates the 3% WSD difference.

---Rank 20 Nyame Feet is stronger than Lustratio +1. This is the only slot where we have a flat upgrade, and the reason is largely because we previously lacked any feet with WSD on them.



R20 Nyame comparisons for Unstacked rudra's

----Artifact head +3 is a wash against Nyame head. Without the crit damage the gap is much smaller. The difference in dex still slightly favors relic though, but it's similar to the body and hands in the sneak attack example. So close it's irrelevant.

----Nyame Body is BiS. It does beat out relic vest +3. Previously I had a herculean body augment with WSD +5 and 10 dex. The difference between that herc aug and nyame is a total wash, slightly favoring nyame. I mention that for comparison.

----Nyame hands are once again approximately half a percent weaker than Meghanada +1. The difference of 10 dex is the reason meg still comes out ahead.

----Relic +3 legs are once again approximately 1-2% ahead of nyame, for the same reason as in the sneak attack example. It's all in the dex.

----Nyame feet is once again BiS. Same reason as sneak attack.

Dont forget that bis body for Rudra at attack cap is Gleti's and its not even close how much it beats everything else. Technically Gleti's head, legs or hands are also better (only one of them, because if you equip more they are no longer better because of PDL diminishing returns), the biggest improvements being hands, but its only very small advantage, probably not good enough to blindly guess if you are attack capped. Body is huge boost tho.

The takeaway on that is that Nyame doesn't actually upgrade rudra's damage in most cases (there are a couple where it does, most notably body and feet). However, there is something very important to be said for the defensive benefits. Dying kills your dps more than any other factor. I'll still be using my nyame once I hit rank 20 on it. But unless your nyame is already at rank 20, anything less is a damage downgrade.


If you want the most effective "compromise" set without going full blown 5/5 that would be as follows

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Sneak Attack Rudra's "middlegrounds hybrid"

Artifact head +3, Nyame Body, Nyame Hands, Relic legs +3, Nyame Feet

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Unstacked Rudra's "Middlegrounds Hybrid"

Nyame Head, Nyame Body, Nyame Hands, Relic Legs +3, Nyame Feet

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Those are the sets that give the biggest offensive and defensive bang for the buck with the most minimal sacrifices. of course if you're fighting something truly dangerous it's still best to just suck it up and go 5/5 nyame hybrid. because dying sucks... and not dying is the biggest DPS increase you can give yourself. For rudra's spam the "best" Nyame is a bit situational. It just depends on how dangerous the thing your fighting truly is.

This too. Whenever we're getting a full compliment of buffs our strongest hybrid set is actually gleti's and not nyame. There's a lot to consider here, but Gleti's PDL is a really big factor and something that you should absolutely abuse if you're in the right situation. If you aren't at attack cap however, Nyame would be the way to go. And as an aside, Nyame DOES have skillchain bonus on it. If you're able to make a few darkness skillchains, the extra skillchain damage can compensate the difference too. You just have to be able to make that skillchain and that's kinda hard to do with five other melees beating on the same target. But still worth noting.

Also for uncapped attack Nyame head is better than AF+3 and hands almost catch up to Meghanada, so for uncapped attack 4/5 Nyame with Relic+3 legs are bis damage anyway. There is also huge skillchain damage that is totally worth to consider, since Rudra often means closing darkness.

Max body and one other piece. After that PDL diminishing returns kicks in. Also I wouldnt consider Gleti's on the same level of hybrid as Nyame. Gleti's has PDT and MDB, but lacks MDT/BDT, meva and slightly eva too.

By the way, to put the value of a 3% charimsa weaponskill mod into perspective, we can expect to have around 235-265 charisma in our rudra's set with the new dagger equipped in our offhand depending on which pieces we're using (and yes I have accounted for the 15 charisma on the dagger itself when I came up with this range). That means the charisma mod will add 7-8 base damage to rudra's storm, which is about the same effect we get from adding 9-10 dex without the charisma mod. You can think of the dagger as having 25 dex and no charisma mod for evaluation purposes and the results would be pretty much the same.

That puts it in the top 3 offhands along with ternion +1 and gleti's knife. Unless my math is wrong I'm seeing both Ternion +1 and this new twilight knife falling somewhere in the range between base gleti's and Rank 20 gleti's. R20 gleti's looks like the best offhand, but base gleti's does not. It's too much effort to try to determine exactly what rank the turnover point is where one overtakes the other though, since at the end of the day they're all pretty similar.

It would all depend on your buffs. If you're getting a lot of attack buffs, that extra attack from Gleti's augment becomes potentially worthless.

However, Ternion+1 (R15) and Crepuscular both lack any attack, so will require a touch more than Gleti's would to hit the pDIF cap. (though 65 isn't a huge difference when you're sitting in the 4k range)

I disagree. It's 65 base. It's multiplied by % buffs like fury, chaos or Berserk.

Adding to the above, the original TP drain effect on twilight knife was usually 3-8 TP per proc under the old 300 TP system, which is 30-80 TP drained under the 3k system. Assuming the effect hasn't been strengthened since the original it'll be worth about the same as a point or two of sTP. None of the other Ilvl variants of older weapons have had their en-effects strengthened though, so it's unlikely this will be an exception. That's another nice little boon, although not the main focus of the dagger of course.

What was the % of proc and distribution tho.
For 30-80tp drain to be compered to 1-2 stp, it would need to proc only once per like 25-50 hits. It was that bad?

I mean it's 100% and hp/mp/tp are all equal. I would say it's more like (40) regain.

I never pop in this thread, but wanted to ask, what’s the ideal offhand for Aeolian Edge if accuracy isn’t an issue?

Im assuming it’s the +1000 TP bonus dagger Centovente? That irohani guy uses it when he sells job cards for omen.

Yeah, that's generally it.

If you're doing GandringC main it might overtp and be less useful.

I offhand Tauret using gandringC. Otherwise mainhand tauret and offhand TP bonus. Perfect malevolence also ranks high but I don't carry them on me.

I was off handing Aeneas until I put two and two together that there’s a bigger boost from Tauret.

I’ll work for that dagger. Thanks!

So what would a savage blade look like on thf?
Trying to setup a slashing DD set

Its back 2 pages

If it's 33% to steal 50tp on avg then this dagger is godly.
It's not comparable to stp+1 then, but way more. Assuming you dual wield that would be +50tp every 6 hits. Even if you assume not dual daggers but naegling and dagger, your base TP per hit is 52. If tp drains adds 8.3TP per hit on avg that's comparable to 16 store TP!! It's even more for dual daggers which have lower base tp per hit!! This not only make this dagger easily the best offhand offensively (beside Centovente for Rudra probably), but also awesome dagger defensively, because afaik it's real tp drain, so target actually loses TP you drain, so if you would go for subtle blow build, you would could extend windows between tp moves significantly.

Thats more or less what it should be.

Maybe slightly higher averages with the higher macc on newer gear. Don't know if macc ever worked on twilight, macc didn't really exist at the time.

They can copy effect from Vampirism too tho and that's not that optimistic then. Vampirism has much worse distribution for tp drain and proc is affected by macc.

If they go with any proc rate lower than 100% it's an instant failure.

Well the dagger is competitive and bis for some builds even without any tp drain, so any tp drain is really a bonus.

Yeah but it meas they go out of their way to make it worse than it was when it wasn't overpowered. That's the failure.

It's a neat gimmick that'll be replaced in 6 months with a new knife (iTriplus). Really unnecessary to alter.

The original knife isn't 100% proc rate, either.

Yeah it is

There's multiple tests and reports that the effect can be resisted and often falls well below 100%. I've seen some anecdotes that say it was originally 100% but SE nerfed it at some point, but I don't know if that's true.

You're going to need a link with a statement like that

The proc rate is close to 100%, but not a full 100%, with distribution at 45% MP drain, 45% HP drain, and 10% TP drain.

EDIT: The proc rate appears to be 100%, is based on magic accuracy/magic evasion and does not trigger on extra attacks from multi attack rounds.


No, no they are not. They are NOT equal. TP drain is 10%. Proof below. You can see toward the start of the first screenshot where there was no proc on the extra swings of a triple attack round as well.