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Guttler, did i just waste my time?
 Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-03-05 20:08:37
So you make a claim that onslaught is better but don't use ruinator. What is the basis of your comparison?
Exctally i dont use it, i didnt say i never used it Leviathan.Phenomena said: »So you make a claim that onslaught is better but don't use ruinator. What is the basis of your comparison?
You do know that Ruinator takes time to proc right? so either
A. He isnt waiting long enough.
or
B. 4/5 ruinator sucks and it doesnt shine until you put that last sweet merit into it where it becomes whole. 5/5 is where the monies at.
See is this so hard for ppl to say? Back up ur facts instead of saying ur wrong. That's sarcasm, dude.
Bahamut.Zangada
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 383
By Bahamut.Zangada 2012-03-05 20:09:21
How many ppl here even have bst or the weapon but suddenly ur an expert ?lol
Bismarck.Nevill
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2420
By Bismarck.Nevill 2012-03-05 20:10:51
Leviathan.Phenomena
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-03-05 20:11:40
So you make a claim that onslaught is better but don't use ruinator. What is the basis of your comparison?
Exctally i dont use it, i didnt say i never used it Leviathan.Phenomena said: »So you make a claim that onslaught is better but don't use ruinator. What is the basis of your comparison?
You do know that Ruinator takes time to proc right? so either
A. He isnt waiting long enough.
or
B. 4/5 ruinator sucks and it doesnt shine until you put that last sweet merit into it where it becomes whole. 5/5 is where the monies at.
See is this so hard for ppl to say? Back up ur facts instead of saying ur wrong. That's sarcasm, dude.
Ty for pointing it out. I thought maybe i might have to point it out myself >.>
Edit: can somebody make a sarcasm sticker that i can stick on most if not all of my posts? >.> maybe instead of my rabbiduck pic i should just have a picture of sarcasm XD
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-03-05 20:14:02
I'm waiting for him to tell us we don't have relics and therefore don't know what we're talking about.
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Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-03-05 20:14:09
138 STR
154 DEX
586/436 = 1.344 cRatio
((74+16+(154*.6*.85))*3.85 = 648 x 1.344 = 872
127 STR
602/436 = 1.380
((74+16+(127*.8*.85))*5.5 = 969 x 1.380 = 1338
DC mob defense, since all BST is good for is dynamis, and I doubt you use food. I used hume for your base stats, and Ruinator isn't even 5/5 or belt+gorget, just gorget. You also have more DA in your rampage set which favors Ruinator even more. also has a decent attack bonus. Don't know if you included it already but at a glance it looked like you didn't, didn't check his sets because my internet keeps cutting out.
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-03-05 20:14:29
How can someone think that a 2.75 fTP ws with a 60% dex mod will outdo a 5.0 ftp WS (6.0 if you're doing it right, 7.2 if you're dual wielding and doing it right) 4.0 ftp WS (4.8 if you're doing it right, 6.0 if you're dual wielding and doing it right) with a 100% STR mod (I guess 80% in his case)?
Edit: Added a hit to Ruinator. 6.5 if he's dual wield, doing it right, and day matches!
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-03-05 20:16:20
138 STR
154 DEX
586/436 = 1.344 cRatio
((74+16+(154*.6*.85))*3.85 = 648 x 1.344 = 872
127 STR
602/436 = 1.380
((74+16+(127*.8*.85))*5.5 = 969 x 1.380 = 1338
DC mob defense, since all BST is good for is dynamis, and I doubt you use food. I used hume for your base stats, and Ruinator isn't even 5/5 or belt+gorget, just gorget. You also have more DA in your rampage set which favors Ruinator even more. also has a decent attack bonus. Don't know if you included it already, didn't check his sets because my internet keeps cutting out. I didn't, I just looked at regular wiki since it was open.
So then it'd be:
((74+16+(127*.8*.85))*5.5 = 969 x 1.897 = 1838
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-03-05 20:16:32
The attack bonus just makes it even better.
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-03-05 20:16:48
Although the WS seems too good to be true. Where's the downside?
Bismarck.Aerison
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 292
By Bismarck.Aerison 2012-03-05 20:17:03
I'm waiting for him to tell us we don't have relics and therefore don't know what we're talking about. well duh...
By joelchiquito 2012-03-05 20:17:15
Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »Any comparisons of just the master dd compared w/ a "heavy" dd to know where they fall? Frankly I've not been able to find any comparison. I don't think there has ever been a good one. That would at least give a base point for how much damage the pet would need to make up. I am not at all certain that BST doesn't already compare w/ "heavy" DD's. I think Ruinator was the last thing bst needed to be more competitive.
The only truly viable end game we have atm that isn't recycled content is VW. Unfortunately regardless how much damage the master puts out compared to a heavy DD it will be for naught in the VW arena. Considering the event is built around temps which do not extend to pets you'll spend the majority of fights w/o 50% of your DD output while you wait on Call Beast timer. Not gonna win any parses like that.
Hopefully Legion will be slightly more friendly to pet jobs. Having to heal pets frequently? I can live with that. Good Bst's can time their rewards to coincide with WS/snarl for minimum tp loss. However, having to watch CB timer with 1:30 or 2mins remaining is a deal breaker to ever being taken seriously in a DD slot. If that's the case bsts should be using pdt /mdb axes x2 (astolfos) instead relic or emp axes, i personally think those are only good if your a hardcore brewer or join a lot of abyssea exp pts or a dynamis farmer like 90% of the bsts on this game, like someone said a while ago on another bst thread
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Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10481
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-03-05 20:17:16
Although the WS seems too good to be true. Where's the downside? BST
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-03-05 20:19:34
Although the WS seems too good to be true. Where's the downside?
it's attached to BST which is a malady of all vana'diel
edit: beat
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-03-05 20:22:02
I would kind of expect that it has an accuracy penalty at 100TP.
It seems like all of the WS with ftp transfer have downsides (attack penalty, low ftp), and the ones that don't (upheaval, exenterator) don't transfer http://ftp.
Either that or SE felt really sorry for BST.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-03-05 20:26:41
idk man I'd say giving a pet called Dapper Mac is enough of a reward for the turmoils of being a BST. Ruinator is just too much.
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Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-03-05 20:28:11
I think I'm going to level BST.
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 642
By Bahamut.Fistandantilus 2012-03-05 20:28:28
Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »Any comparisons of just the master dd compared w/ a "heavy" dd to know where they fall? Frankly I've not been able to find any comparison. I don't think there has ever been a good one. That would at least give a base point for how much damage the pet would need to make up. I am not at all certain that BST doesn't already compare w/ "heavy" DD's. I think Ruinator was the last thing bst needed to be more competitive.
The only truly viable end game we have atm that isn't recycled content is VW. Unfortunately regardless how much damage the master puts out compared to a heavy DD it will be for naught in the VW arena. Considering the event is built around temps which do not extend to pets you'll spend the majority of fights w/o 50% of your DD output while you wait on Call Beast timer. Not gonna win any parses like that.
Hopefully Legion will be slightly more friendly to pet jobs. Having to heal pets frequently? I can live with that. Good Bst's can time their rewards to coincide with WS/snarl for minimum tp loss. However, having to watch CB timer with 1:30 or 2mins remaining is a deal breaker to ever being taken seriously in a DD slot. If that's the case bsts should be using pdt /mdb axes x2 (astolfos) instead relic or emp axes, i personally think those are only good if your a hardcore brewer or join a lot of abyssea exp pts or a dynamis farmer like 90% of the bsts on this game, like someone said a while ago on another bst thread
If you're not a massive gimp that has 5/5 perle on you should have a variety of axes for different situations. A hybrid set maxing pet/master haste, a pet onry set, and a master onry set for times when your pet gets wtf pwn'd twice in short order.
I would kind of expect that it has an accuracy penalty at 100TP.
It seems like all of the WS with ftp transfer have downsides (attack penalty, low ftp), and the ones that don't (upheaval, exenterator) don't transfer http://ftp.
Either that or SE felt really sorry for BST.
SE owed us for the shitasticness of Farsha.
By joelchiquito 2012-03-05 20:34:45
Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »Any comparisons of just the master dd compared w/ a "heavy" dd to know where they fall? Frankly I've not been able to find any comparison. I don't think there has ever been a good one. That would at least give a base point for how much damage the pet would need to make up. I am not at all certain that BST doesn't already compare w/ "heavy" DD's. I think Ruinator was the last thing bst needed to be more competitive.
The only truly viable end game we have atm that isn't recycled content is VW. Unfortunately regardless how much damage the master puts out compared to a heavy DD it will be for naught in the VW arena. Considering the event is built around temps which do not extend to pets you'll spend the majority of fights w/o 50% of your DD output while you wait on Call Beast timer. Not gonna win any parses like that.
Hopefully Legion will be slightly more friendly to pet jobs. Having to heal pets frequently? I can live with that. Good Bst's can time their rewards to coincide with WS/snarl for minimum tp loss. However, having to watch CB timer with 1:30 or 2mins remaining is a deal breaker to ever being taken seriously in a DD slot. If that's the case bsts should be using pdt /mdb axes x2 (astolfos) instead relic or emp axes, i personally think those are only good if your a hardcore brewer or join a lot of abyssea exp pts or a dynamis farmer like 90% of the bsts on this game, like someone said a while ago on another bst thread
If you're not a massive gimp that has 5/5 perle on you should have a variety of axes for different situations. A hybrid set maxing pet/master haste, a pet onry set, and a master onry set for times when your pet gets wtf pwn'd twice in short order. im just giving my opinion about axes only @ events like voidwatch that your pet will steal hate or tank/take massive damage, should use pdt or mdb axes depending on the situation , or else pets wont hold more than 1 min/having a long call bst recall
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 642
By Bahamut.Fistandantilus 2012-03-05 20:39:13
Pdt axes are surely a staple in a Bst's arsenal. They are really quite easy to make as well considering a lot of the trials are in Eldime (S) where you get soil geodes, and HQ ones as a bonus while doing earlier trials. Can do some of the trials x2 staggered there as well if you're making two.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 239
By Bismarck.Bongarippa 2012-03-05 20:43:29
Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »Any comparisons of just the master dd compared w/ a "heavy" dd to know where they fall? Frankly I've not been able to find any comparison. I don't think there has ever been a good one. That would at least give a base point for how much damage the pet would need to make up. I am not at all certain that BST doesn't already compare w/ "heavy" DD's. I think Ruinator was the last thing bst needed to be more competitive. The only truly viable end game we have atm that isn't recycled content is VW. Unfortunately regardless how much damage the master puts out compared to a heavy DD it will be for naught in the VW arena. Considering the event is built around temps which do not extend to pets you'll spend the majority of fights w/o 50% of your DD output while you wait on Call Beast timer. Not gonna win any parses like that. Hopefully Legion will be slightly more friendly to pet jobs. Having to heal pets frequently? I can live with that. Good Bst's can time their rewards to coincide with WS/snarl for minimum tp loss. However, having to watch CB timer with 1:30 or 2mins remaining is a deal breaker to ever being taken seriously in a DD slot. If that's the case bsts should be using pdt /mdb axes x2 (astolfos) instead relic or emp axes, i personally think those are only good if your a hardcore brewer or join a lot of abyssea exp pts or a dynamis farmer like 90% of the bsts on this game, like someone said a while ago on another bst thread If you're not a massive gimp that has 5/5 perle on you should have a variety of axes for different situations. A hybrid set maxing pet/master haste, a pet onry set, and a master onry set for times when your pet gets wtf pwn'd twice in short order. im just giving my opinion about axes only @ events like voidwatch that your pet will steal hate or tank/take massive damage, should use pdt or mdb axes depending on the situation , or else pets wont hold more than 1 min/having a long call bst recall
If you're pet is stealing hate in a voidwatch group, your DD's are doing something seriously wrong.
By Latifah 2012-03-05 20:43:55
i did my set of axes in 1 day only lol
By missdivine 2012-03-05 20:46:35
Bismarck.Bongarippa said: »Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »Any comparisons of just the master dd compared w/ a "heavy" dd to know where they fall? Frankly I've not been able to find any comparison. I don't think there has ever been a good one. That would at least give a base point for how much damage the pet would need to make up. I am not at all certain that BST doesn't already compare w/ "heavy" DD's. I think Ruinator was the last thing bst needed to be more competitive. The only truly viable end game we have atm that isn't recycled content is VW. Unfortunately regardless how much damage the master puts out compared to a heavy DD it will be for naught in the VW arena. Considering the event is built around temps which do not extend to pets you'll spend the majority of fights w/o 50% of your DD output while you wait on Call Beast timer. Not gonna win any parses like that. Hopefully Legion will be slightly more friendly to pet jobs. Having to heal pets frequently? I can live with that. Good Bst's can time their rewards to coincide with WS/snarl for minimum tp loss. However, having to watch CB timer with 1:30 or 2mins remaining is a deal breaker to ever being taken seriously in a DD slot. If that's the case bsts should be using pdt /mdb axes x2 (astolfos) instead relic or emp axes, i personally think those are only good if your a hardcore brewer or join a lot of abyssea exp pts or a dynamis farmer like 90% of the bsts on this game, like someone said a while ago on another bst thread If you're not a massive gimp that has 5/5 perle on you should have a variety of axes for different situations. A hybrid set maxing pet/master haste, a pet onry set, and a master onry set for times when your pet gets wtf pwn'd twice in short order. im just giving my opinion about axes only @ events like voidwatch that your pet will steal hate or tank/take massive damage, should use pdt or mdb axes depending on the situation , or else pets wont hold more than 1 min/having a long call bst recall
If you're pet is stealing hate in a voidwatch group, your DD's are doing something seriously wrong. this line is getting really old, pet usually steal tankers from tankers, specially if its a pld, did you know it haves a cap?
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 239
By Bismarck.Bongarippa 2012-03-05 20:52:48
I understand the concept of an enmity cap, but with the ws's that dd's should be spamming every couple seconds, i dont see how a bst pet is going to take hate, cap or not. The damage a pet will take would be from an aoe I would think, but not by taking hate off of people. Maybe im wrong tho, never seen a bst in voidwatch.
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-03-05 20:53:11
Tank? In my Voidwatch? You mean for the first 30 seconds while people use temps?
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 239
By Bismarck.Bongarippa 2012-03-05 20:54:09
Tank? In my Voidwatch? You mean for the first 30 seconds while people use temps? Lucky Lulush tanks while waitin on fanatics to proc
Ragnarok.Anye
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5449
By Ragnarok.Anye 2012-03-05 21:06:34
There's no need to resort to an excessive use of profanity. Keep the discussion civil, guys.
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By Raborn 2012-03-05 21:21:14
Onslaught is 60% Dex and Ruinator is 100% STR. Still think its kinda lame that the merit WS is out doing the relic one ; ;
I only have lvl 4 runiator but onslaught still out dmgs it in most cases and with the aftermath makes it worth always using. My onslaught set isnt the best but i havent had any issues with it and always use the ws.
I'm not sure what level your Guttler is, but on the test server with the 95, (and the 99 form.) They were both putting out pretty impressive numbers in abyssea i was doing anywhere from 2.8k~4.5k onslaughts, had one jump to 4.8k (99).
Inside Dynamis the ws was doing mainly 1.8~2.5k (Both were done dual wielding).
Unfortunantly with 5/5 Ruinator, in Abyssea the numbers were 3.2k~4.7k occasonally spiking just past 5k.
And In Dynamis they were 2.4k~ (Yet again DualW).
So I'd check into putting an additional merit, not that Onslaught falls too far behind. But Ruinator really does shine with 5 merits on.
So I just finished Guttler, did the trials up to lvl 85 for it and in full Dex gear, about +84 in gear, im doing a solid 1.5k Onslaught and a 3.6k Ruinator (in the same Dex gear). Did i just waste my time? or is there something im missing here?
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