kparser, (do you need it).
look, i know full well what sam's, war's, rng's drg's can do, but after leveling up dnc subbing nin for some extra -delay on dual wield and gearing dnc half decent i have to say i am impressed with the dmg output. Fully merited dnc with that haste dagger and phurba spamming self sc darkness i can pull out some numbers. not saying i spike as high of dmg as i do on my rng but the dps is wild.
i can only imagine if i had twash and an oa2-4 fully merited haste samba, saber dance /nin and decent gear. i am certain it will hold its own. instead of arguing it someone with decent gear and a working kparser please stack up your dmg vs a higher tier vwnm.
When Should PLD Tank?
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When should PLD tank?
ANYWAY, to keep this thread on track, I'll re-iterate, DNC is not a replacement for a DD tank or even a PLD with magical tanking powers.
BLU is the best out of all of them anyway :)
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Bismarck.Sylow said: » Stuff You basically changed your post from "Dancer can be a top DD" to "DNC can be useful". I doubt anyone here disagrees that DNC can be useful, we were simply aghast at your claims of it beating a serious DD (it can't). Also, and here's some non biased info (because if DNC was more useful I'd sure as hell bring it more often): 1. Haste samba is slightly devalued with misers/coercian due to melees having TP before their WS animation finishes the majority of the time. Thus when deciding between filling 2 DDs and a Dnc (with the brd/cor/whm) or 3 DDs, the best DOT (by far) goes to 3 solid DD. 2. Def down is nice, but in the time it takes you to put up the def down steps, the melee that would have taken your space would have done 5 WSs. 3. Dagger procs are nice, but have nothing to do with the previous debate of DNC usefulness. You might as well argue that a Pup can out DD any heavy melee because "he can proc pup stuff". 4. Fan dance helps with PDT, but you're not going anywhere near the pure DT of a Pld, or the DD/enmity capabilities of a DD tank. I've brought DNC to VW on several occasions and they've rarely added anything of value. edit; Again, I have nothing against dancer. I just wish there was more game content that made good use of them in a party/alliance setting. Currently VW is about the only end game that requires more than a few people, and dnc just falls behind steadily in any decent VW group. Sylph.Mesheef said: » kparser, (do you need it). look, i know full well what sam's, war's, rng's drg's can do, but after leveling up dnc subbing nin for some extra -delay on dual wield and gearing dnc half decent i have to say i am impressed with the dmg output. Fully merited dnc with that haste dagger and phurba spamming self sc darkness i can pull out some numbers. not saying i spike as high of dmg as i do on my rng but the dps is wild. i can only imagine if i had twash and an oa2-4 fully merited haste samba, saber dance /nin and decent gear. i am certain it will hold its own. instead of arguing it someone with decent gear and a working kparser please stack up your dmg vs a higher tier vwnm. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but it's this kind of thinking that holds DNC back. 1.) For VW, your only viable sub is /WAR because you need Berserk to keep up. 2.) OA2-4 is a terrible weapon. Your only viable offhands for Twashtar in Voidwatch are STR Thokcha and Coruscanti (Maybe Lux Pugio). 3.) Merited Haste Samba, Saber Dance, and Decent Gear are all good to go. I guess 1/3 isn't bad. But this is really moving outside of the realm of what this thread should cover, and there are threads in existence for this particular topic already. Still, I had to respond. There doesn't seem to be any good DRKs on our server, oddly.
And no, you're not close to a good MNK. Last I checked, I was putting out 1.25x - 1.5x the damage you were, and a good MNK can potentially put out 1.5x+ what I can do. Phoenix.Neosutra said: » Bismarck.Sylow said: » Stuff You basically changed your post from "Dancer can be a top DD" to "DNC can be useful". I never said "top DD." I said "can keep up." I also said "I don't generally have trouble coming in the top 3." Also I'm not sure where the thing about Fan Dance came in, because I never once said that DNC had a place in playing defensively in Voidwatch, in fact, I've said about 4 times now that it simply doesn't have a place in even attempting. Bismarck.Ihina said: » There doesn't seem to be any good DRKs on our server, oddly. And no, you're not close to a good MNK. Last I checked, I was putting out 1.25x - 1.5x the damage you were, and a good MNK can potentially put out 1.5x+ what I can do. I was also parsing 30% accuracy on the Lamoraks we did together. I've re-geared for that fight specifically and have no problem getting ~90% on it now, which makes a sigificant difference. I'd be down for a re-match though. Your THF is one of the best I've seen, even though I don't particularly like you :P Bismarck.Sylow said: » Sylph.Mesheef said: » kparser, (do you need it). look, i know full well what sam's, war's, rng's drg's can do, but after leveling up dnc subbing nin for some extra -delay on dual wield and gearing dnc half decent i have to say i am impressed with the dmg output. Fully merited dnc with that haste dagger and phurba spamming self sc darkness i can pull out some numbers. not saying i spike as high of dmg as i do on my rng but the dps is wild. i can only imagine if i had twash and an oa2-4 fully merited haste samba, saber dance /nin and decent gear. i am certain it will hold its own. instead of arguing it someone with decent gear and a working kparser please stack up your dmg vs a higher tier vwnm. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but it's this kind of thinking that holds DNC back. 1.) For VW, your only viable sub is /WAR because you need Berserk to keep up. 2.) OA2-4 is a terrible weapon. Your only viable offhands for Twashtar in Voidwatch are STR Thokcha and Coruscanti (Maybe Lux Pugio). 3.) Merited Haste Samba, Saber Dance, and Decent Gear are all good to go. I guess 1/3 isn't bad. But this is really moving outside of the realm of what this thread should cover, and there are threads in existence for this particular topic already. Still, I had to respond. like i said i just recently started messing with dnc, the more i learn about it and mess with it the more impressive it becomes. no i dont know dagger's in voidwatch or in general, dagger jobs are my most recent. most the time in voidwatch i am rng/war and have to keep decoy shot up or i die even with gnostics drink. i do however strongly feel the fast rate of attack and wild flourish really helps dnc. stating /war makes sense and even adds more double attack than just saber dance. not to mention the addition of berserk, warcry and agressor. some claims of other jobs being the top parser because of rolls from cor allowing two hit ws, well i don't see why dnc cannot benefit from it as well. i am certain all the haste and double attack from dnc/ war can allow many sc's. once again not claiming dnc is a top dog here just would like to see some well experienced dnc with decent get pop on kparser. i think the dmg can account on par with other jobs. You can't really SC with yourself in VW and Saber Dance overwrites /WAR double attack instead of adding to it. Still, it's more than twice as powerful than even WAR's Double Attack II.
Bismarck.Sylow said: » You can't really SC with yourself in VW and Saber Dance overwrites /WAR double attack instead of adding to it. Still, it's more than twice as powerful than even WAR's Double Attack II. thank you for that correction, i am still ill-knowledged with dnc, i have lots to learn. infomation such as this is what will help me in the long run. as for dnc vs pld tank though, not gonna happen in my eyes pld can take too much dmg, although fan dance and dnc curing waltz 5 would do lots to stay alive it just doesn't compare to the gear and hp / def bonus of a pld. Everyone with a Twashtar thinks they can outparse me.
Anyways, I don't know for sure, but from eye-balling it, I assume that the parser counts hits being absorbed by shadows as a miss. Once its 50 or so shadows went away, I didn't notice anyone missing all that often. Putting aside the idea that you put on 120 accuracy through gear, I don't think there's anything you can do to bypass shadows with just your melee attacks to hit that 90%. We can rematch if you wish, but later in the week. I just got back from a funeral and I don't feel like being competitive right now.. Sylow outparsed me twice.
 Bismarck.Ihina said: » Everyone with a Twashtar thinks they can outparse me. Anyways, I don't know for sure, but from eye-balling it, I assume that the parser counts hits being absorbed by shadows as a miss. Once its 50 or so shadows went away, I didn't notice anyone missing all that often. Putting aside the idea that you put on 120 accuracy through gear, I don't think there's anything you can do to bypass shadows with just your melee attacks to hit that 90%. We can rematch if you wish, but later in the week. I just got back from a funeral and I don't feel like being competitive right now.. I don't think it's counting shadows as misses, although I used to. As soon as I switched from using RCB to Pizza, my accuracy shot up to about 75%, and finishing my ACC build was enough to make it acceptable. You do realize that 2acc = 1%, right?
You're literally claiming something that a small amount of FFXI knowledge and 10 seconds with wiki can disprove. Pizza is +10% Accuracy with an unknown cap above 40, My acc build has an additional 30 accuracy over my usual TP build for the loss of 1% haste, and using Coruscanti nets me an extra 7.5 from DEX that I didn't have before. It's giving me a minimum of a 42% boost over what I had before.
Unfortunately I don't think they know at which point Pizza caps on accuracy. Going from 30% to 75% requires 90 accuracy.
So, how much accuracy do you need for 10% to be 90? Bismarck.Ihina said: » Everyone with a Twashtar thinks they can outparse me. Hmm! :o You're right, that amount of accuracy is ridiculous.
What's likely happening here is sample size issues. I have a large sample size of pre-pizza Lamoraks, and a large sample of post-pizza+acc set Lamoraks, and a very small sample of the middle step. Regardless, Pizza should be multiplicative with gear + stalwarts, so everything that's added should benefit. All I can tell you for sure is that using Pizza + an accuracy build had a gigantic impact on my melee hit rate on Lancing Lamorak. As an addendum though, I'm also a lot more inclined to use aggressor than I was before on Lamorak (I had secret hopes of evading it, or something). |
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