When Should PLD Tank?

no comment post ... Are you serious by posting this or ? ..

Have you ever made a useful post, ever? I was just wondering, because as it stands, I've yet to see one come out of you.

You guys must hang out with some horrible DNCs.

It's unsurprising, the solo-side of the job attracts some real retards.

S'ok, I'm a BLU, I know all about morons ruining jobs.

actually the guy who started this thread brought up DNC in his initial post so im not sure what the big deal is... and why u two are having a fit.

Also as it stands PLD has very little DD potential and hate management in VW even tier6 jeuno. Yes they are nice if your group is unable to stagger consistently or ur lowmaning.

But honestly constant popping of fanatics, fools occasionally, DD's can tank efficiently.

I WANNA SEE A BETTER DNC THEN MYRRH!

I'm good, right?

...sigh, it was funny in my head.

I'm open to the possibility that I'm overlooking something, but how could DNC possibly come close to more commonplace DD in events so dramatically skewed toward WS damage, while dagger WS are typically so lackluster unstacked? SAM, WAR, and DRG should both utterly destroy you, while MNK and DRK should be on par if not better than you.

I could very well be missing something, and I acknowledge that DNC isn't weak by any means, but what you're saying sounds incredibly counter-intuitive. An explanation would be appreciated.

Derp nvm, flourishes totally have a recast timer.

Chill.

Should see the WARs he rolls with :( I have no problem believing he parses first.

Generally my damage on DNC is skewed toward melee, 60/40 melee WS. Whereas the more traditional DDs are skewed more 30/70 (oprobably even more skewed toward WS in a lot of cases).

With Champions, you're pushing critical hit rate sky high, and Saber Dance (+25% Double Attack)/Fanatics allows you to use Rancor Mantle for an additional 5% and either Coruscanti or Lux Pugio will add another 4-5%.

300TP aftermath from Twashtar doubles damage from those strikes 50% of the time. (When Coruscanti works, who knows what it'll do). And if you stack it right, that's a reward for puumping out a WS that does ~3000 on average. Regular weaponskills aren't as exciting, but with Berserk up you shouldn't have a problem averaging 1.2k+.

Additionally, fanatics allows you to run Berserk/Aggressor for what is usually the entire duration of the fight.

"Keeping up" in Voidwatch requires gearing and playing the job in a different direction than that to which most DNC are accustomed.

I'm not saying that a DNC is more powerful than MNK (the job to which DNC's damage slope is most similar), SAM, WAR, etc. These jobs all have an edge over DNC in raw damage output. DNC is however capable of providing respectable, competitive damage while providing a multitude of other benefits to the table.

It is not however a replacement for a good DD tank (MNK, WAR, SAM etc.) or even a PLD. But that's because getting your damage up to par to take hate requires you to become exceptionally fragile.

Next thing ppl will say is how we should bring THF to DD :/

Not really, while an exceptionally-geared THF can put out competitive numbers, its usefulness pretty much stops there.

PLDs should tank whenever they are needed, and will tank whenever they are supposed to.

/literal abela

Or try to, anyway.

Shut ya face, sugarasssssssssssssssssss

professional socking

I'm just confused how you say that DNC is a good DD. Yet you compare yourself to DD's that even after you die you can still outparse. If the mob lives for more than 5min plus however long you were alive prior to dying in an event where it's, white proc > Zerg, what kind of DD's are you going with ?

Nothing personal, and while I'm quite sure you do perform quite well, but with the exception of your offhand dagger, you've just listed a bunch of things that most jobs benefit from. Nobody as min-maxy as you is likely to perform short of your job's maximum potential, but you're flat-out playing with poor players if you're trumping any of these jobs regularly in VW. It's simply not reasonable.

I can't even imagine how bad the melees he must play with must be geared or perform.

I'm fairly certain any of my DD jobs could outperform the best Dancer on our server by just engaging and going AFK.

If the DD is actually competent and trying then a DNC has absolutely -no- chance. You won't even break a few % of the parse.

Misers roll + coercian means any DD is quite literally locked in WS animation the entire fight, and dancer has -no- WS that matches Smite, Ukko, Resolution, Shoha on an average basis.

Even if for some god awful reason you put your dancer in the brd/cor party with the other real DD and let them spam WSs just as much, their WS avg will fall DRASTICALLY behind any other competent DD.

There is just no way, short of playing with some of the worst melees I can imagine, that a DNC is coming close to any other DD job.

My earlier post was deleted, though I'm not sure what rules it broke short of being a bit pointed, but the point remains: you're wasting our time here with these baseless claims, which I really hope you don't believe.

I really have no problem with DNC, or with you playing the job. I enjoy playing DNC myself. But you have to be trolling to come into other Job's forums and make claims like this.

If you actually read the post, I said "if the DDs are incompetent" there's no contest even if I die. Either you didn't read carefully, or you don't know what incomptent means. So basically you were calling out something to which I openly admitted.

As far as the length of time a VW battle goes, I haven't really paid attention to the time, but in general, they're over before my Berserk/Aggressor wear. Still, even with a fantastic group, there are always going to be fights in Voidwatch that drag on because the procs are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE (HQ/EX procs on shared timers or just uncooperative WS, an easily resisted spell, etc.).

I further went on to say that If the DDs are competent, I generally don't have problems parsing in the top 3 (on non-Bones, I should specify). This is over a huge sample of parses, not just "occasionally."

So either:

1.) DNC is capable of putting out respectable damage while fulfilling its proccing job in Voidwatch or
2.) Every DD I've ever played with on 2 servers is complete crap.

I'm sure given your tendency toward arrogance, you're going to want to beleive 2.), but that's fine.

DNC's damage curve rises fast, smooth, and steady - very similar to a MNK. You're not going to "tend to" outparse SAM and WARs (although it will still happen occasionally), but there's also little reason to bring 9 SAMs to VW, either.

You obviously don't say, I need a heavy-DD, let's pick up a DNC, but when you've got the heavy DD down (it's not hard, WAR/SAM/MNK are usually the first people to hop on the Voidwatch train), DNC is certainly capable of providing a significant chunk of damage while also providing the following additional benefits:

1.) Haste Samba
2.) Dagger Procs so that your WAR/NIN don't have to worry about them and can do something better with their time (and also has access to the two that WAR etc. would be missing)
3.) DNC procs, so that no one has to reduce their effectiveness by subbing DNC (as well as providing one unique one)
4.) The ability to reduce the enemy's defense/evasion/critical hit evasion/magic evasion if the need arises.

DNC is obviously not a required job for Voidwatch, and sure, you could just sit there and AFK unless Dagger or DNC abilities came up, and people would more or less not notice or care.

I'm simply providing information on how to get the "most" out of bringing your Dancer to Voidwatch. You wont' get much mileage out of using it as a tank, about which the OP questioned. You can however shift your gears and run into overdrive, and put out enough damage that while might not make you worth bringing on your own, combined with your other assets, make you extremely beneficial to the alliance.

Occasionally we have to drop our preconceived notions and think about situations deeply and carefully. But I've come to expect that this is not one of the strong points of FFXI players. We'd much prefer to



than to actually consider our options and consider the subtle benefits offered by a little bit of diversity.

Except Thief is even worse for damage. It feels like attacking with needles. Dancer's capability is at least slightly higher, but still horridly lackluster.

Regardless of the offshoot this topic has taken, the actual relevance of PLD in fights is much more limited than people are willing to acknowledge. I'd much rather be on MNK for most things.

You only pld tank when you can't find *** dance duh

I'm glad you put this at the end of your post, because I didn't want it to seem like quoting such a small portion of it meant I didn't read its entirety. This is FFXI101 right here: diversity is not what people want. You're simply repeating "I know it's not WAR or SAM, but.." over and over in slightly different ways. You're right, DNC is not WAR or SAM, and unfortunately the game isn't concerned with the several other things you can do while being fundamentally noncompetitive with heavy DD jobs. If you have room in your alliance for a set of procs that mathematically aren't particularly crucial to have, and/or really just want to play DNC, then feel free to do so, but lets not sugar-coat the situation. You keep up with other DD because you're good and they're not.

It's possible that I'm blessed or cursed with shitty players, depending on how you look at it.

However, I never particularly claimed to regularly trump all of them. The margin between me and a good SAM or WAR on even ground (no death + few procs on either side) is still quite large. (MNK and friends tend to be close enough that it's a toss-up - I can only wonder if it's Saber Dance that's producing that result).

It's also possible I'm just at an advantage to most people because I'm a little off-my-rocker when it comes to improving my performance and I use the parse results from VW to pinpoint my strengths and weaknesses there and address them.

While I don't really know whether I can confirm or deny a sea of terrible MNKs and DRKs that are simply not up to the task of outparsing me specifically, I can definitely attest that the people against whm I don't stand a chance against are geared exceptionally.

Also, Neosutra, you keep complaining about me coming into "another job's forum" like it's some sort of sacred ground. The OP asked a lot of questions about DNC. When there are questions about DNC, I'm there. If you've got a problem with it, you're free to not read my posts.

My ego is fine with this assessment. My DNC pride is not :<