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Who wants Asuran Fists?!
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 134
By Asura.Flufferkins 2011-06-21 09:10:00
You should all feel shame for posting in this thread and feeding this idiotic idea.
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-06-21 09:11:10
Bahamut.Mizuharu said: Ramuh.Austar said: It is too the same deal. It's job specific. PUP won't get it because it's initial release prevented them from getting it. Initial Release.
Because everything is perfect in the game and nothing is ever changed after the initial release.
Asuran Fists access just seems overdued. Regarding WSNM, everything is pretty perfect. But hey, since you wanna be a ghetto MNK so bad:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Heofon_Knuckles
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 09:11:56
Asura.Flufferkins said: You should all feel shame for posting in this thread and feeding this idiotic idea.
Ah Asura! The Drama in the thread has just multiplied by twelve!
Ah. Ha. Ha. Funny.
So are MNKs still mad at Puppetmaster because we out DD them or something? Because I remember this being the biggest scare back when the level cap was raised. Oh... I see. It's that scare again.
No, but in all seriousness. Who'd use those Hand-to-Hand unless they didn't have Vere/Rev. Fists +2? And isn't PUP already a ghetto MNK? PUP is "that cousin MNKs want to forget about."
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 134
By Asura.Flufferkins 2011-06-21 09:24:07
Bahamut.Mizuharu said:
Ah Asura! The Drama in the thread has just multiplied by twelve!
So are MNKs still mad at Puppetmaster because we out DD them or something?
You know nothing of my server or our ways...
To be completely honest I could care less what PUP does. If you're out DD'ing MNK. Good for you, good FOR you.
When there are actual problems with the games design and antiquated engine. Problems that keep the game from progressing properly and keeping balance. Then people waste time on the development forums Q.Q'ing because they don't get some BS weapon skill. I'm sure a lot more monks want Hexastrike than pups you can dredge up. Add this to the RNG's crying they want more DEF.
Edit: for your edit making me look like a *** looking for an argument wile I was typing it.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1097
By Lakshmi.Feifongwong 2011-06-21 09:26:05
The only thing I have gained from this thread is never, ever, EVER! Let April O'Niel drive the damn Turtle Van!!!
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-06-21 09:30:48
I'd love to see a PUP take on my MNK. Asuran Fists sure as hell is not the way to change the MNK > PUP. If you think that, you're seriously delusional. Bahamut.Mizuharu said: Asura.Flufferkins said: You should all feel shame for posting in this thread and feeding this idiotic idea.
Ah Asura! The Drama in the thread has just multiplied by twelve!
Ah. Ha. Ha. Funny.
So are MNKs still mad at Puppetmaster because we out DD them or something? Because I remember this being the biggest scare back when the level cap was raised. Oh... I see. It's that scare again.
No, but in all seriousness. Who'd use those Hand-to-Hand unless they didn't have Vere/Rev. Fists +2? And isn't PUP already a ghetto MNK? PUP is "that cousin MNKs want to forget about." Why would a MNK ever be mad at a PUP? PUP was never able to out DD an equally geared MNK. And giving PUP Asuran Fists sure as hell isn't going to change that.
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 09:32:24
Asura.Flufferkins said: Bahamut.Mizuharu said:
Ah Asura! The Drama in the thread has just multiplied by twelve!
So are MNKs still mad at Puppetmaster because we out DD them or something?
You know nothing of my server or our ways...
To be completely honest I could care less what PUP does. If you're out DD'ing MNK. Good for you, good FOR you.
When there are actual problems with the games design and antiquated engine. Problems that keep the game from progressing properly and keeping balance. Then people waste time on the development forums Q.Q'ing because they don't get some BS weapon skill. I'm sure a lot more monks want Hexastrike than pups you can dredge up. Add this to the RNG's crying they want more DEF.
Edit: for your edit making me look like a *** looking for an argument wile I was typing it.
I'm sorry if I made you feel that way. Most Asura people I've seen post on here just do it for the drama.
Why would RNGs cry about their DEF... They're suppose to be out of range... And subbing NIN or SAM (Seigan with staff! It's there for a reason people!) And my reason for posting this isn't because "Q.Q". I just think it's highly unfair that every other job gets one, if not multiple WSNMs where PUP doesn't even get their main Weapon's WSNM WS.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-06-21 09:33:45
Both flufferkins and Austar are kinda derp.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 134
By Asura.Flufferkins 2011-06-21 09:38:13
Shiva.Flionheart said: Both flufferkins and Austar are kinda derp.
When does school go back?
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-06-21 09:39:18
Asura.Flufferkins said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Both flufferkins and Austar are kinda derp.
When does school go back?
You should listen to your teachers.
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 09:39:21
Ramuh.Austar said: I'd love to see a PUP take on my MNK. Asuran Fists sure as hell is not the way to change the MNK > PUP. If you think that, you're seriously delusional.
Why would a MNK ever be mad at a PUP? PUP was never able to out DD an equally geared MNK. And giving PUP Asuran Fists sure as hell isn't going to change that.
Not like MNK could out do a PUP with Asuran Fists either. Their only hope is Victory Smite seeing how Pummel out does that.
I'm not asking for Asruan Fists because we need it. Most jobs that get multiple WSNM access don't need all of them, but can still have the option to. I'm asking for the same option ever other job has.
And you were on Ramuh so were you auto-transfered over to Bahamut or...?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 134
By Asura.Flufferkins 2011-06-21 09:39:54
Shiva.Flionheart said: Asura.Flufferkins said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Both flufferkins and Austar are kinda derp.
When does school go back?
You should listen to your teachers.
You should troll harder.
Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15370
By Asura.Vyre 2011-06-21 09:44:27
Bahamut.Mizuharu said: Asura.Flufferkins said: Bahamut.Mizuharu said: Ah Asura! The Drama in the thread has just multiplied by twelve! So are MNKs still mad at Puppetmaster because we out DD them or something? You know nothing of my server or our ways... To be completely honest I could care less what PUP does. If you're out DD'ing MNK. Good for you, good FOR you. When there are actual problems with the games design and antiquated engine. Problems that keep the game from progressing properly and keeping balance. Then people waste time on the development forums Q.Q'ing because they don't get some BS weapon skill. I'm sure a lot more monks want Hexastrike than pups you can dredge up. Add this to the RNG's crying they want more DEF. Edit: for your edit making me look like a *** looking for an argument wile I was typing it. I'm sorry if I made you feel that way. Most Asura people I've seen post on here just do it for the drama. Why would RNGs cry about their DEF... They're suppose to be out of range... And subbing NIN or SAM (Seigan with staff! It's there for a reason people!) And my reason for posting this isn't because "Q.Q". I just think it's highly unfair that every other job gets one, if not multiple WSNMs where PUP doesn't even get their main Weapon's WSNM WS. PUP is lucky that it got Dragon Kick. Generally it has gotten to be the exception when it comes to weapon usage. I.E. They tailored Magians to not involve Asuran Fists so that PUP could do all of the hand-to-hand ones. The only job that at 75 got to use a weapon's level 2SCprop/final pre-WSNM weaponskill while holding less than a B in it. Yep, SE sure has been unfair to you. You literally gain nothing from Asuran Fists other than 1 Blue proc. No extra SC attributes, no enhanced DD capability. It doesn't even flow with PUP's storyline/background.
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 09:44:30
Asura.Flufferkins said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Asura.Flufferkins said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Both flufferkins and Austar are kinda derp.
When does school go back?
You should listen to your teachers.
You should troll harder.
Aren't you trolling right now...?
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-06-21 09:46:01
Bahamut.Mizuharu said: Ramuh.Austar said: I'd love to see a PUP take on my MNK. Asuran Fists sure as hell is not the way to change the MNK > PUP. If you think that, you're seriously delusional.
Why would a MNK ever be mad at a PUP? PUP was never able to out DD an equally geared MNK. And giving PUP Asuran Fists sure as hell isn't going to change that.
Not like MNK could out do a PUP with Asuran Fists either. Their only hope is Victory Smite seeing how Pummel out does that.
I'm not asking for Asruan Fists because we need it. Most jobs that get multiple WSNM access don't need all of them, but can still have the option to. I'm asking for the same option ever other job has.
And you were on Ramuh so were you auto-transfered over to Bahamut or...? Even at 75 Cap our lower delay, higher skill for more base damage, acc, and attack, were the reasons we were better.
Server: Asura
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Posts: 134
By Asura.Flufferkins 2011-06-21 09:46:34
Why do you care, it seems REALLY frivolous to just want it because... The development team complained it was too much work to change NM pop "???" to "!!!" even though that is kind of a meh update.
Understand they do listen to the dumb crap that gets posted on that forum and it is time they could be spending fixing better things.
I can understand the misinterpretation with RNG needing something defensive but people don't understand how finite the enmity system is now. since everyone is like "ZOMFG WS DAMAG!" they seem to forget how small the threshold is for turning a mob's attention and holding it there. They will figure "If I just had a way to survive, it would be fine"
The fact that with us closing in on level 99 level correction is another thing that will be left completely behind, changing the way we will have to add and alter stats in different ways to handle things.
but whatever... I just think it's a ridiculous thing to ask for. I'd be more concerned with making pup fit a more necessary role in the party, though that could be more the social aspect of the game than dealing with the engine and balance. You'll be in the loldrg club for a wile.
Edit: Nope, not even trollin. Dead serious. Just a legitimate conflicting opinion.
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 09:56:23
Ramuh.Austar said:
Even at 75 Cap our lower delay, higher skill for more base damage, acc, and attack, were the reasons we were better.
We got an Automaton that makes up for the lower delay, lower acc/atk/skill. Everyone forgets to factor that it... But even without Lobo, I'm fairly certain my PUP would be better... But I doubt we'd be able to prove that because it seems you don't even play the game anymore.
Could I get opinions from people that actually PLAY?
Asura.Flufferkins said:
but whatever... I just think it's a ridiculous thing to ask for. I'd be more concerned with making pup fit a more necessary role in the party, though that could be more the social aspect of the game than dealing with the engine and balance. You'll be in the loldrg club for a wile.
Idk what PUPs you party with, but I apologize on their behalf that they make you think that.
Also, when is everyone going to stop saying loldrg? That horse has been dead for oh-so-long.
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-06-21 10:00:27
Bahamut.Mizuharu said: Ramuh.Austar said:
Even at 75 Cap our lower delay, higher skill for more base damage, acc, and attack, were the reasons we were better.
We got an Automaton that makes up for the lower delay, lower acc/atk/skill. Everyone forgets to factor that it... But even without Lobo, I'm fairly certain my PUP would be better... But I doubt we'd be able to prove that because it seems you don't even play the game anymore.
Could I get opinions from people that actually PLAY? I play. And I seriously doubt your PUP would beat my MNK. Oh, let's not forget the fact you have more JAs to use, increasing your delay further. And the entire time, I'll have a constant flow of damage, not to mention counters.
Ragnarok.Foxx
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 57
By Ragnarok.Foxx 2011-06-21 10:02:07
Bahamut.Mizuharu said: Ramuh.Austar said:
Even at 75 Cap our lower delay, higher skill for more base damage, acc, and attack, were the reasons we were better.
We got an Automaton that makes up for the lower delay, lower acc/atk/skill. Everyone forgets to factor that it... But even without Lobo, I'm fairly certain my PUP would be better... But I doubt we'd be able to prove that because it seems you don't even play the game anymore.
Could I get opinions from people that actually PLAY?
lolpup
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-21 10:07:01
Quote: Most jobs that get multiple WSNM access don't need all of them, but can still have the option to. I'm asking for the same option ever other job has.
Not every job is included in every thing. Deal with it
[+]
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 10:10:13
Ramuh.Austar said:
I play. And I seriously doubt your PUP would beat my MNK. Oh, let's not forget the fact you have more JAs to use, increasing your delay further. And the entire time, I'll have a constant flow of damage, not to mention counters.
My mistake then. I just went with the fact you're on ramuh but nothing has been bought since 2010. And then none of the other Austars have recent AH info... And, again. Though I'm using JAs, Automaton is picking up the slack. But I did say "even without Lobo, I fairly certain my PUP would be better," so that would factor out the constant JA usage.
Ramuh.Austar
Server: Ramuh
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Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-06-21 10:11:27
Highly doubt you'd compete without your pet.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-21 10:12:01
You think you can take mnk w/o your maton? I wish you were on my server
[+]
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-21 10:14:59
Ramuh.Austar said: Highly doubt you'd compete without your pet. Equivalently geared, definitely not. Vereth or Rev fists pup vs any mnk w/o smite, easily done, which is why I said I wish we were on the same server, because I'm not one of those scrub mnks of an opponent.
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 10:17:57
Tiger I definatly can't out DD without Lobo present. And I use to be on your server, remember?! We merited together before jeez!
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-21 10:19:06
Lol I've merited with a lot of people. I honestly don't remember.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-06-21 10:19:57
Same name?
Bahamut.Mizuharu
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1988
By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-06-21 10:23:33
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Same name?
I'm the only Mizuharu ever apparently. Idk if that's good or bad...
Sylph.Krsone
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1299
By Sylph.Krsone 2011-06-21 10:31:57
Bahamut.Mizuharu said: Ramuh.Austar said:
Even at 75 Cap our lower delay, higher skill for more base damage, acc, and attack, were the reasons we were better.
We got an Automaton that makes up for the lower delay, lower acc/atk/skill. Everyone forgets to factor that it... But even without Lobo, I'm fairly certain my PUP would be better... But I doubt we'd be able to prove that because it seems you don't even play the game anymore.
Could I get opinions from people that actually PLAY?
I got both and I play both and LOL no.
Carbuncle.Virtuosus
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 683
By Carbuncle.Virtuosus 2011-06-21 10:33:28
I just....what? You're saying you can out DD an equally geared MNK on your PUP without your automaton? I'm not trying to call PUP bad, but I'd honestly like to see a PUP outdamage a MNK even with their automaton. And no, I don't mean an optimal AF3+2, Vere PUP going up against an Avengers/Aurore Set MNK, I mean equally geared.
Tell the devs here!
Quote: [To the Devs] Puppetmaster Accessing Asuran Fists
At the time I had originally posted this, I didn't have enough arguments to support the post. But I let it run as a discussion over in the PUP forum area and decided to repost here. (While people frown on [To the Devs] tags, I have noticed they reply more times than not to topics that begin with it.) I apologize for the repost, but here it is.
Ever since the update last year that increased Puppetmaster's combat rating up from 225 cap (@Lv.75) to 256(@Lv.75), many had hoped that we'd be able to access Asuran Fists. Now, I know Stringing Pummel and Victory Smite do more damage than Asuran Fists anyway, and I'm most likely blowing hot air posting this, but here are a few arguments for why we should be allowed to quest for this Weapon Skill...
1) We're the only other job that actually mains Hand-to-Hand in this game.
2) The only reason we originally could not obtain this Weapon Skill was because PUPs could not reach the skill level to open quest without merits/gear. (Asuran Fists quest is 250 Hand-to-Hand. Puppetmaster's new cap at 75 is 256.)
3) Every job besides PUP gets access to at least one WSNM Weapon Skill if not multiple.
---a) Empyreal Arrow - RNG
---b) Decimation - WAR BST DRK RNG
---c) Black Halo - PLD WHM BLU WAR MNK BLM SMN SCH
---d) Evisceration - THF COR RDM DNC WAR RNG BRD BST NIN
---e) Steel Cyclone - WAR DRK
---f) Tachi: Kasha - SAM
---g) Ground Strike - DRK WAR PLD
---h) Asuran Fists - MNK
---i) Detonator - RNG COR
---j) Impulse Drive - DRG SAM WAR
---k) Spiral Hell - DRK WAR BST
---l) Retribution - PLD WAR MNK SMN BLM WHM BRD SCH
---m) Savage Blade - WAR RDM BLU PLD COR DRK
So I ask again; why isn't PUP allowed to obtain Asuran Fists?
(Arguments thus far)
1) Was originally MNK only, should stay MNK only. (But Dancing Edge/Shark Bite use to be THF only and then DNC was added on. "But those aren't WSNM WSs" Fine. Detonator. Originally RNG only, COR was added on due to them getting the combat skill requirement. Speaking of COR, they were added to Savage Blade and Evisceration also. I realize they reached those skill levels originally when the job was first released, but the 225 on PUP was a joke. (Which is why it was raised last year, no?))
2) PUP doesn't need it because they have Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite. (BST mains Axes and rarely, if ever, use scythe and daggers. They don't "need" Sprial Hell nor Evisceration; but they still get them. COR's main damage is from marksmenship. They don't need Savage Blade/Evisceration. MNK mains Hand-to-Hand. Why do they need Staff/Club WSs? Again; because the Dev team gave them the combat rating. Thus, because they got the combat skill without merits/gear before or at level 75, they were allowed to partake in the WSNM quest. And, as I said before, Puppetmaster's Hand-to-hand skill cap is now 256. Asuran Fists quest is 250.)
3) The time spent adding PUP onto the weapons could be used to fix the Automaton AI. (You think that adding Puppetmaster onto one weapon would take longer than rewriting an AI program? You think it'd take that much effort that they'd say "well, that's all they'll get for a while. Let's save the AI program for next year." It's been how long since WHM/BLM frames have been out? And they still havn't done anything about -nas before Cures and high thresholds for Aspir/Drain. The AI works for solo play. They meant PUP to be a solo job that can still DD in party formats (like BST.))
4) If they wanted us to have it, they'd have done it when we received the combat update. (True. But there's so many things that certain jobs should have gotten, and are now getting (Yonin/Innin on seperate timers. Longer duration on Last Resort. Just to name a few.) I am hoping to get a Dev to notice this thread and at least say yay or nay.)
5) Just make Stringing Pummel a blue proc! (Why should this be the only Mythic WS to proc? None of the others proc because the Dev team know that WSNM WSs are easier to get than Nyzul WSs; compare a set 300 points to a weapon that needs 250~16,000.)
6) Puppetmaster can't wear the type of weapon the trial weapon is for Asuran Fists. (DNC can't use the type of weapon for Evisceration. By that I meant the Dagger of Trials is not the standard type of Dagger DNC can normally equip.) Savage Blade's weapon is a Sapara; a type of sword that RDM and COR normally can't use.)
7) There's only a one in three chance that, during blunt hours, the WS is Hand-to-Hand. And then a one in five chance it's Asuran Fists. (True, true. But, like people have said, procing !! is such a small part of the game. And, honestly, I admit to originally writing this thread for blue procing on PUP. But now it's just for equaility... To get what every other job has;access to their main weapon's WSNM.)
8) Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better. (While this is true, if you met a MNK that didn't have Asuran Fists, most of you would insist on laughing at them. If you met any job that doesn't have the WSNM for their main weapon (save maybe for a mage), you'd tell your linkshell all about it and everyone would have a good laugh. Atm, PUP is expected to not have it because they don't have access to it. Stringing Pummel/Victory Smite is better damage for PUP, yes. But Ascetic's Fury/Victory Smite is better for MNK with damage.)
9) It'd ruin the lore behind the quest. (Honestly, the lore behind quests/NPCs is ignored when needed. The PLD starter NPC? He also plays a role in the DRG quest. And teaches Impulse Drive. A DRG/WAR/SAM WS. Why isn't PLD included on it? (Because of low combat ranking in polearm.) Or, and this time it isn't some minor quest thing, what about Aegis? The NPC in the past that weilds it is Cerane I Virgaut, where as the NPC you see during the CS is Perseus. Hell, the original owner of Annihilator was Elivira, but then the CS shows Elrica (might be related in some way since both are humes, but...) You look up any other relic weapon wielded by an Allied Army NPC, and they're the NPC for the CS.
And, I can't believe I almost forgot about this, what about Gungnir? It is the javelin wielded by Odin, and yet Odin is seen wielding a completely different polearm, which he calls Gungnir. (In the Dev Team's defense though, they did make the relic weapons before they planned on making Odin a monster. And while it is not called Gungnir directly, they are names the polearm was also known by.)
All in all, if they need to make a loophole around lore, they can.)
Sorry for the wall of text.
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