Romantically Frustrated?

Pinkie Pie.

yeah nice guys finish last women dont like pussies who they know they can walk all over they want a man!

I guess you're SOL then.

I did read all 21 pages of this...and, unfortunately I do think a lot of the 'simplification of the issue' that some of the women here express in trying to convince the shyer men that it is "so simple" to approach the person of interest is a bit misguided and biased towards their own life perspectives. :/

The first part of it, as Nightfyre mentioned already, is that heterosexual women and het men have it completely different in terms of the dating scene. Pretty much what I said here...

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/14157/sexuality-men-and-women/2/#850937

...but het women are almost *always* in a position where they don't have to constantly put their self-esteem on the line, except for when they choose to do so. Het men, by comparison, really do face that prospect from the time they become sexually aware and begin to aggressively pursue relationships, and face it all the time--it really is quite unfair. As a result heterosexual men really do face having to develop great senses of humour and/or thick skins in order to cope with the possibilities of rejection. (Of course gay men have it even worse with the possibility of aggrivating homophobic men...but anyhow...) :/

To oversimply it as "well men just have to suck it up and be confident, why can't you guys just see how EASY it all is?" isn't taking that side into it at all. Practically any het woman can passively wait for a relationship to come by with some assurance that something will come her way at some point (whether it's a quality relationship or not LOL.)

The second half of the equation is that of timing. As Zicdeh and Artemicion and others have alluded in their posts and anecdotes, timing is pretty key to whether a person (male or female) will be receptive to advances.

Most people, when single and regardless of actively seeking or not, start subconsciously defining for themselves what they want in a relationship and more importantly when they will be "ready" again. Whether these criteria are based on personal feelings of comfort (or LOL alternatively of love or desperation) :p or economic factors, they still are important criteria. Even if someone might normally be receptive to another person, if they are still in that "recovery phase" from another relationship, or might still be "getting their lives together" financially, or are "just not wanting to get involved right now" then projected self-confidence or impressive qualities will not make a difference during that window no? :p For certain those same qualities might be mentally cataloged for later reference by that person, but trying to hit on them during that time is just setting oneself up for friends-zone.

So similarly, if I were interested in Zicdeh (because Henry Killinger is so dang sexay) or Artemcion (because of that irresistible taru Weewoo) but not knowing either is in any place to even consider a relationship, I would honestly be setting myself up for some major disappointment (other than the regular disappointment I normally get.) :p If my timing had been different, then things might be different as well no?

But that gets to the heart of the issue--sometimes *even the person you are interested in* might not be fully cognizant of all the criteria it would take to green-light a relationship. Without knowing when a window of opportunity is up or not, based on a given person's fickleness and personal life situation, then really no matter how things are it is much more complicated than "just get confident and throw your heart up there."

My suggestions would be along the lines of what BBB and most everyone says about "keep trying" but perhaps "be as perceptive as possible about the person you are interested in" to see when the time is right for them. And for your own sake, don't try to make the criteria for when the time is right for YOU to be overly complicated, either LOL...or else it will never ever be "the right time to start looking." :p

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TLDR: Het men have it rough. It sucks, and I realise it because, as a dyke, I've tried to get with het women also. Keep trying and stay confident, but realise that there is usually a window for things to happen and you might not always be aware of when that window is open (and the target of your affections might not even know when that window is open.) Or just become bi- and you'll never be lonely again (or maybe you'll experience twice the rejection...er, something like that.) :p

Women do approach men. You know that, right? It's not 1949 anymore. So, yes, it's easy to simplify.

You are correct, but I am not sure you are extending empathy further beyond your own experiences. ^^ It's not an attack on you, just saying it's not necessarily as easy as it seems.

Not in Florida!

No offense taken.

I do see where the guy who went to an all-boys' Catholic school (sorry, his name escapes me at the moment) has been socially handicapped because of not being able to immerse himself in the situations that most teenagers go through, but I really just don't understand it. Adults should be able to speak to other adults without tension.

Relationships start anywhere. It's just a matter of not stressing over it.

married for near 10 years, newly remarried. Kinda my fault she cheated though since I used to be a work-oholic. But even pre marriage and during the single years after divorce dating has never been hard.

I have to agree with most here, don't listen to all the crap people tell you of how it works. Love is not some game we play. Be your self and it will happen.

I think the key though is to be social. Have a group or groups you do things with, school, church, clubs, etc. Networking is key to having a greater variety of people to meet. This not only gives you options but also allows you to learn more about yourself when you broaden your social atmosphere.

all of it is kinda scary now, my 12 year old has a "school-boy-friend" and we do things like skate parties.

One rule for sure, don't rush physical stuff: It can ruin what might have been great if to soon.

What I hate is that I am finding it harder and harder to be able to be a "nice" guy. I'd been raised with the classical view that a man respects ladies. Holds doors, walks on the street side of the path, and all that other stuff. I did it out of habit, and in the small town I am from no one ever said anything bad about it, and most women thanked me for it. I never expected to get laid or to get a girlfriend solely by being kind. By showing what should be common courtesy, but apparently I was wrong on two counts.

1. A lot of nice guys expect a return on their kindness. It's not done out of courtesy as much as it used to be. Plus, every man on the western side of the globe does this. I felt really stupid after I realized how long it took me to realize this.


2. Women view a lot of that ***the same way the guys do, except in the reverse, "He's holding the door for me, he probably expects me to think that it's so kind of him." They also view it as submissive/unconfident behavior. Some even find it disgusting.

I've been told before that holding doors for women makes me a loser, and in a way it really breaks my heart. Not because some woman got in a pissy mood because she's a ***, but because every time my courtesy is spat on it disrespects not only me, but my family and the people who raised me. I have not changed my behavior. I continue to hold doors and all that stuff, and not surprisingly I don't get flirted with or hit on very much. I'm a nice guy. A nice guy who looks for long term relationship potential. I'm also young, and as much as I want a relationship for physical/emotional/sexual needs, I know that it's going to be a long while before I find anyone who desires someone such as myself. It also may not be prudent to even have a relationship at this point in my life. It's why I didn't even take an interest in having a relationship at all, until high school, but even then I realized the futility of starting anything serious.

I really don't think you should focus on every woman who has rejected you, or who hasn't reciprocated your feelings. In fact, if you aren't even out on your own, in my opinion, you should enjoy any relationship that you have, even start some for physical recess, but don't expect it to endure.

Also I agree with Schutz. Sure, more women than ever before make the first move on the dating/relationship scene, but it's still nowhere near how many men MUST make the first move. That's the difference. Most women do not have to act to find a partner. Most men do, otherwise it's foreveralone for sure.

Every women is different . You have to treat them as such. Good guy , bad guy , or in between . I always let the women make the the first move. If I am interested , I I will let them know . If I am not interested . I will let them know . But I have always believed there is someone for everyone . Just keep looking guys.

It's been said so many times it's become cliched but seriously confidence is one of the if not the biggest key factor when it comes to attracting women. Why are women with douche bags? Because they then to have a lot of confidence.

Nice guys finish last because they are usually pansies and lack confidence. They are so focused on trying to please women and worry about what they might think about them that they let them walk all over them.
If a woman does or says something you don't like then let her know. If she ditches you because of that then forget her, those types of women are trouble anyways. If you want to say something then say it, if you want to do something then do it. You want to tango then go for it, so what if she rejects you initially just try and try again or go find a different girl.


Sandolphon is right but to be more specific: look at her body language. A large percent of human communication is done through body language and is done unconsciously, for the most part, so it's much harder to control, unlike words. There are numerous body languages that can indicate they are interested, some more subtle than others, but the most obvious ones are: licking of the lips, playing with their hair, tilting their head slightly sideways, and as Sandolphon said, where they're looking at whether it's your junk, your lips, your *** or even your whole body.

you can be nice and confident at the same time :)

Hey Mr. Bart. Just trying to help all the cool bro's out.

is it just me or do the girls who claim they hate drama always have some sort of drama around them like they thrive off of it...saying they hate it when they are so full of ***it pisses me off

Well I discovered looks are not everything . The girl I dated was not the usually type I date. The first night I met her I said three words to her. But after several weeks of talking to her I was her's. Looks can start the fire, but it can't keep it burning . Guy's just don't give up.

Yeah. And watch out for the ones that say, "I only have guy friends because they are the only one I can relate with."

I disagree on the someone for everyone. There are plenty of people who end up alone in the end who have tried all their life. It works out for a good number of people and it also plain just didn't work out for another number of people. Hell, there are even people who grow old in the retirement home alone who weren't able to get a single date in their life time.

I feel you man. I don't think it's bad or submissive behavior to treat a woman with respect and courtesy but at the same time you must not let that override yourself. To put it simply, don't put her before yourself for no other reason other than to be respectful and courteous. Don't be afraid to make a move because of that. Don't be afraid to speak out against her or challenge her because of that.

The big problem with "nice guys" is that they often put a woman on a pedestal, and value her so much that they are afraid of doing anything that might upset her even in the slightest.

Your a cool dude Tiger, but I will disagree with you. I just think you need to be open.

See! Bart has the right idea!

thats a pretty good read...i was also raised to treat women with respect..not just women but anyone in general...some girls just get the wrong idea sometimes i guess

ive heard a lot of girls say that too lol

Just saying, "everyone" is a lot of people.

I'd agree that is the case for a lot of people, even most people, but to claim 100% is just being blind.

being open is sometimes not the best idea for some people?

the percent that end up alone, prob have low self esteem or didn't try that hard.

thats honestly one of my problems i have noticed lately..my self esteem is just fine its just that i dont put enough effort into it sometimes

Maybe I am blind . I have had it pretty easy most of my life. But I still if there is a will, there is a way!!