Suggestions For PLD

I agree on both notes. And with the sword grade you'd think the damage output would be the same as Blue Mage. That is not the case unfortunately. Don't get me started with plds accuracy rating. I cry every night when I go to bed because of this realization when I tank, thinking it would be nice to hit and do more damage to hold hate. I've even tried the pld DD route but it hasn't helped, not enough anyway untill I work out the kinks in my experimentations with it.

Until then I myself just do my best and the group cooperates with each other (ie; thf sata, dd sata, etc).

With time, hope, and patience I'm sure SE will fix these problems for Paladin. We shall see.

*I kid about the crying part. Galka's dont cry! There's no crying in tanking!*

Well, yes, I understand completely what you mean given the reality of current Abyssea end-game. But regarding how PLD "used to be" and the "old tanking dynamic" and how VE/CE used to play out pre-Abyssea, I mentioned in this thread here...

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/16090/kraken-club-paladin/#987831

...what I figured would be the only way SE could bring back that balance (by creating mobs with such a high level-difference and DEF vs. attack ratio that DD and mage spike damage, as well as regular melee hit damage, is severely reduced thus allowing VE/CE to operate as it used to back in the 75-cap era.)

You touched on how SE also went with the "NM gimmick" design strategy earlier in this thread, something they used extensively in Abyssea NMs, and how that can only allow for PLDs to at best be "situational tanks". So, yes, certainly right now VE at best allows momentary diversion currently but should SE ever go back to the era of super-high-level-NMs-with-super-DEF-and-small-DD-hits/spikes (with the correlation of smaller individual DD VE/CE accumulation) then VE JA's would have a place again, I think.

Ok, I think I overstated something I wasn't intending to argue anyhow, though. :p

PLD is dead <call5>.

I probably got beaten about 100 times, but idfc. It's been said a lot before, and probably a dozen times in this thread alone, but the real way to make PLD useful and/or relevant again would be to extend the enmity cap for them. Make it a JT at like... 75 or something, so people couldn't (For whatever reason) sub it and go SAM/PLD or whatever and still outtank the PLD. Atonement spam should still be viable, but for whatever reason, SE decided to essentially throw it away after PLDs were able to be competent DDs...

Increasing the enmity cap won't do anything for PLD. It's been reitterated plenty of times, the problem is not holding hate. Most jobs can tank just as well and offer other benefits in forms of buffs or DPS, PLD does not do this, that is why it's getting overlooked.

Make PLD reflect 200%, no, 300%, of the damage they take to the enemy.

woah, now you WANT the mob to hit the PLD amirite

Impurvarence, Level 92 JA, Drains 50% enmity from surrounding pt/alli members, adds DT-15% and enmity+ to the paladin, pt members effected gain an nmity supression effect.

DT-15%, enmity+ and supresses enmity effect lasts 1min, 2.5mins recast on the JA.

Divine Aura, level 95 JT, JA/Spells gain enhanced enmity production Spell interuption rate down 20%

Honesty cant see it happening but would make it easier to hold hate. my pld can hold hate from the mnk for about 50% of the fight but after that its me healing the mnk lol. PLDs have better survivability then mnks but yeah just the holding hate problem.

This would help if they made truly hard mobs in the game, but as it stands--and the main argument as to why PLD isn't the optimal tank as of right now--is that MNK and NIN can hold hate off the mages while having survivability rivaling PLD (NIN's survivability is actually better, IMO with Migawari and shadows up the wazoo) and in addition to that dealing super srs damage. Making PLD hold hate better wouldn't change the fact MNKNIN can still keep hate off mages, and making PLD have a -DT JA wouldn't change the fact MNKNIN can wear PDT and MDT gear. It might help a bit if the -DT went past cap, but even then MNKNIN does the same thing with more pew pew.

To make PLD viable, they'd have to give something really great to PLD, and make it so that mobs REQUIRED a PLD tank for one reason or another. And that's pretty much it.

My 2 cents...not that it matters much...btw, i won't reiterate stuff like increasing hate cap or w/e.

1.) How about defense bonus gets changed into -pdt and -mdt to help with enmity loss.

2.) Reduction of spell cost + upkeep of mana

3.) Accuracy bonus trait/attack bonus trait

4.) Better WS than sanguine blade.....please.....

5.) DoT JA that would allow you to take damage while increasing damage, so therefore you'd be able to heal yourself for more enmity(idk this is a shot in the dark)

6.) level 51+ ability that allows you to convert damage to MP in a certain pool so that when you run out of mp you can use it? Sublimation but from taking damage?

7.) More utility spells, Flash doesn't cut, Enlight was a good way in the right direction due to the fact that it increases accuracy and gives damage, but it only does so much and that it deteriorates isn't that spiffy.

8.) Some way to build tp faster, due to shield block being meh and shield mastery only giving you 5? on a shield block, i don't remember exactly (unless you have ochain or aegis)

9.) Better shields. That aren't ridiculous to get.

10.) A way to resist en-procs on enemy melee attacks so that blood tanking is feasible and ur not a burden on the mage

Just a few ideas, pick em apart. That's what these are here for.

ability to stop en procs is pretty good. for abyssa, more damage... with mc,mm, and i use zenith as winged gloom is broke. i have unlimited mp and hard as hell to kill, but my damage just sucks ***. atonement loss on nms hurt us hard.

outside of abyss i can see mp possibly becoming an issue in draw out fights depending on the set up, probably need defense worked around so that it actually does something. this is looking at things from both a solo and group aspect

isn't cdc supposed to be pretty good?

and regarding 8) technically you can get shield mastery augments on tower shields in konschtat, and there's adoubeur's pavise, although i doubt that warrants using them.

Unfortunately if you want to become useful as paladin you need to have really decent high end equipment. Almace and Ochain (Aegis) are must haves. Paladin is very gear dependent, and if it is the only job you have, leveling another job is a must as well in order to participate activities that helps you gain them (assuming you don't have ls friends who would help you on those).

Make invincible glue the mob(s) to you for 30 sec, it's useless to be invincible if the mob(s) doesn't attack you.

well as a 90 PLD I hate to say this, but SE is never going to make PLD efficient and useful like it used to be. They proved that with what MNK is now with the Abyssea add-ons. SE had no quarrels with completely destroying a job like they did with PLD. Sadly it won't be resurrected nor revived. It's so astronomically behind now that SE would literally need to make PLD god mode just for it to compete. It will never have the dmg output to compete with MNK(thanks to MNK's af3+1/+2's) and that's not even mentioning MNKs evasion and counter ability. The only thing that I hold onto now is how much I enjoyed to level and play the job. Maybe SE will at least give it a little more solo survivability for novelty purposes so I can hold onto a little longer why I leveled it(was a complete blast in campaign and low man outside of Abyssea).

This ^
cause i'm lvled to Nin74 atm...my Pld90 going sit in MH...

People need to make more noise about this.
2nd time the Dev team has answered "your" questions and not once was PLD mentioned.
They are happy to make the game even easier with an increase in seal drop rates... (Who the *** has problems getting +1 Afv3 for any job?!)
Those same retards that struggle to attain the most basic of gear are the ones SE are choosing to ask them questions?!
ffs....

Pld is dead, level monk

It's not going to be more damage, that's what DD's are for. It's not going to be an increase in enmity cap, because DD's would still get there sooner duh. I think it's going to be a JA that causes an increase to enmity while TAKING damage instead of losing enmity. I also like the thought about an Accomplice or Collaborator type JA. In the end they will "fix" pld in Abyssea the same as they always do. I also see some fixes for SAM in the future. So enjoy DDing and tanking while you still can all you MNK's and THF's!

Sometimes it feels like the people who create the "FIX PLD" threads are the kind of people who probably feel Haste is useless for PLD and all PLD needs is more enmity tools and Defense, or probably think Hero's Gal is a cool full-time melee helm and Koenig will never go out of style!

What PLD needs isn't some kind of Enmity gain ability, or some new Defensive ability that massively nerfs everyone in range. What Paladin needs is either an ability to transcend the Enmity cap to assure the PLD cannot ever lose hate to other melees if properly up-kept, at least giving it a spot for some amount of people, or a massive boost to their DD potential to be on par or close to on par with current DD/tanks (MNK, WAR, THF.. yes, even THF)

Almace+Ochain combo on PLD really does bring up its DD potential a bit, as long as their Atma'd properly, its very effective, something in that direction for PLD would be the best bet.

Some Ability more akin to composure, which is a permanent buff with a negative side effect would be nice. something that say, increases Attack Speed, Critical hit rate/damage, and PDT-, but lowers Evasion and Cure potency a small amount. give it a Timer similar to Composure (1minute Recast, 10 minute Duration seems good).

theres a buttload wrong with PLD, but it doesn't need anything on the side of Defense, it needs more offensive properties. increases Vorpal-Blades fTP and mods a bit would be a good fix too, to those Chant-less people, cause right now with RR/VV/Apoc Vorpal is still rather decent, just not good enough.

Even if say, PLD got their increase to Enmity cap (maybe 50% more than others can achieve) They still might not be invited, because now all they would do is guarantee hate, some people would just think "Who needs the PLD to tank if the MNK can tank just as good and other people can watch their Enmity?". It still wouldn't fix Paladin's fundamental flaw.

Why invite a Tank that can't DD in place of something that can tank as good or better and can DD much more? PLD isn't even a good "Net" these days (unless they have Ochain!), Most people would feel safer with NIN Tank thanks to Miga allowing them to "Cheat death" for 1 massive TP damage spike.

Paladin needs both a guaranteed way to keep hate with proper up-keep, and the ability to at least with effort match the DD output, or close to matching enough, that would be worth putting them in their spot.

Enlight was a good boost in that direction, an additional ~60Damage a hit (Depending on weapon) is an over-looked magnificent increase to their DPS, but the repeated casting of it lowers the DPS usefulness...

Either way, I for one can't even begin to fathom the amount of work needed to "fix PLD", but if i had to gather a starting point, I'd vote massive over-haul of their general DD potential above anything else.

Bet you Id out tank your mnk on pld

And PLD still get stuck with Cure IV, ain't cutting it anymore in Abyssea.

The point of a PLD's cures isn't to outheal or heal up to the efficiency of a WHM, (or RDM, SCH for that matter): it's for enmity. Whatever logic you can use against this is flawed. A PLD isn't supposed to be able to sustain themselves alone, nor are they meant to sustain a party. They're meant to take the hits and suck it up, thus polar opposite to being a ***.

Cure V and Cure VI give very little enmity in comparison to Cure IV. This completely defeats the purpose of Cure's role in a PLD's arsenal, (however weak and ineffective that arsenal is).

doubt it

I don't but moot point is moot cant ***on you cross servers D:

this thread went to tl;dr for me, so i don't know if my suggestions are repeats or not, but heres my view on PLD currently:
PLD isn't needed anymore since most DDs can take hate on a whim, and since increasing PLDs melee capacity isn't a truly viable option without other DDs having an attack of the vapors, PLD's only recourse is to increase passively, such as:
Provoke: PLD should get Provoke natively, at level 10. PLD should see Provoke II at level 50.
Enmity Accrual Increase: A job trait that grants PLD +10 Enmity, starting at level 15, gained every 15 levels to a Enmity Accrual Increase VI (+60 Enmity) at level 90.
Shield Counter: Ever played Elder Scrolls Oblivion with a character that caps out shield skill? If you block, there is a chance that you will automatically counter attack with your shield, doesn't do a lot, but it stuns for a sec... 10% chance that a successful block will trigger Shield Bash effect.

These aren't game breaking, but I believe they are well within PLD's genre of job abilities and traits. I would love to see PLD make a comeback, and I think these could do it, even if it is nothing more than creating a "safety net" effect.

There's 3 things the PLD needs more then all the new crap SE has giving us.

1. Give us Provoke
2. Get rid of the 5 minute timer on Shield Bash. Set it at 2 minutes. People who have it capped will be 1:10. Set Shield Bash to cumulative enmity.
3 Let us be able to Cover the whole alliance. In fact lower the recast on Cover. Hell most people don't have any idea to use it. How I miss old school tanking.

There's a lot of new NMs in game that has a hate reset move. If SE would do those 3 things, would greatly bring PLD back in the game.

An off the wall suggestion:

Vorpal Blade build (yeah sounds ridiculous) but with VV, RR, Apoc, I've done 1-3.5k Vorpals on Pld that I can recall. Not saying that's "OMG Damage!" but it helps in addition to all the tools Pld has for hate. Also just off hand a multi hit weapon (Joytoy, Justice Sword, Magian Sword, K/OClub, etc).

SE needs to redo the emnity generated at higher levels. wasnt really working at 75 and at 90 it's an absolue joke!

emnity in general has to be readressed.

and:
die in a Fire! ***

I think, as others have stated, the biggest problem is that the game as it is now doesn't need pld as a tank. SE continues to design mobs that can be tanked by pretty much anyone on /nin. Why invite a pld who will do mediocre damage when any other job on /nin will hold hate, not die, and do more damage. With a little evasion even dancer can make a better tank than pld on a large number of mobs and do more damage.

I would say at this point SE should just say screw it and make pld have the same DD potential as other jobs. It doesn't have to be quite the same as monk, war or nin, but it should be close. I know some people think that would make pld broken, but I don't see how. If pld does 90% of the damage that a ninja does, then its still at best 90% as good as ninja. Pld doesn't really have much more in survivability over other jobs, not when so much damage comes from -ga IV, AM II, throat stab moves, astral flows, etc. If they just made pld almost as much of a DD as other jobs, it wouldn't cause everyone to switch to pld, it would just mean that you could show up to an event and actually contribute something.

In regards to damage, Badelaire+2/Almace give a great boost to weaponskill damage, and Almace a great boost to DoT. I'm pretty consistently breaking 2k damage on NMs on pld and its not uncommon to break 3k (Badelaire+2). On regular mobs breaking 3k isn't hard and I can spike up to 5k. It could always be better, but I'm happy with that.

The problem is TP gain and DoT. If you look at monk or nin or any job that is dual wielding their TP gain is through the roof (easily 1.5x what plds is). I know pld can go /nin and dual wield, but then we're basically a blue mage without any blue magic.

Just give pld more DD abilities. If SE isn't going to try and have certain jobs "tanks" anymore then just make them all DD. Here are my ideas for increasing damage on pld:

1.) Single wield enhancement. Not some fencer garbage, but a substantial increase to attack speed when single wielding.

2.) Shield blocks trigger counter attack. If you block with your shield you get to hit the mob back and get TP (basically retalliation, but only on shield blocks).

3.) Fix Atonement (Make the cap 50-60% of current hp). If we want a couple mobs to resist it thats fine, Rani can resist it along with some others, but not every single NM.

4.) Give PLD double attack. Blue mage can now obtain it, why not PLD? Job traits are no longer unique to jobs (just look at dual wield). I know its not a huge boost in Abyssea with all the Triple attack atmas, but its something.

I'm not saying make pld the top DD. I'm just saying make it a DD. Its a myth that pld has some great survivability over other jobs at 90. Ninja, monk and war do just fine and if pld does slightly less damage than those three, its not going to take their spot in any parties. Its just going to let some of us bring it to events.

I know someone will say "my pld partied the other day and was the top DD." It just means your party sucked. I was in an alliance the other day and my pld was the second highest damage out of 18 people. However, the highest was a thief who did well over twice my total damage (I know I know I suck). Right now the best pld can do for damage is be a blue mage without blue magic.

Stop making the PLD class revolve around Aegis and Ochain. That's all they keep talking about fixing. Basically they are making it so if you don't have Ochain or Aegis you just shouldn't be playing the class. Rather consider adjusting the block rates of shields, having some type of spell reflect component where a % of magic damage taken is returned to the mob as a pld only buff/ability. At this point with a great group paladin is the worst tank by and far. Every other job depends on shadows and evasion and paladin was originally (in my eyes) a blood tank. Well mobs deal such crazy high damage and magic mitigation only does so much paladins can't do very much, nor can they hold hate against their evasive counterparts. Being a paladin main for years I had to use /nin for most major encounters because the damage dealt by mobs has never really scaled with player hit points. At this point I have switched to playing ninja and thief even though I managed to get full creed +2. I don't see paladin getting fixed any time soon. If/when they do decide to fix it I doubt they will do enough and it will continue to be a sub-par job.