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Segments was indeed added before Gaol in Nov 2020
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/57421-November-10-2020-%28JST%29-Version-Update

So last night, we had no problem on temenos wave1, but Apollyon, and more specifically the worm and mantis wipe us quite a few times. Small alliance 10-12 peeps. How do you go about them?

I get your point and I agree to a certain extent, but I would say it's not true that SE never "respected their time".
Granted that's extremely arbitrary and subjective, it's quite clear how the game was more demanding back until the lv75 era (different times, different standards in the gaming world back then, many other different variables), it got much easier and "respectful" of your time during the Abyssea era, with a lot of complaints from the "pro" players of the era if you recall.
Then it started to get progressively a bit more hardcore with Voidwatch and Legion (but still miles away from the 75 era if you ask me) only to become way more accessible for during the adoulin era (not at launch) for many years after.

Up to the point in recent years where the game started being more "demanding" of your time and effort, but for different reasons.
They had to maximize the amount of time players were busy, while minimizing their time developing or adjusting stuff.
Which has always been true to a certain extent, but never as much as it has been over the last few years.

But overall yeah, I think you put the focus on the right stuff. It's mostly people being biased for the reason you emphasized.

Sorry but, what content is this referring to?

Odyssey: anyone who can fog a mirror can farm segments. People in ambu gear can clear v0, get ody gear, and clear v15 (at least)

Sortie: anyone can farm sortie. With a group of human beings above room temperature IQ, you can easily clear the majority of the bosses without intense gear or skill requirements.

Limbus: grindy, but easily soloable by anyone.

The only thing "locked" behind being an "elite" is faster achievement of your goals, or maybe v25 bosses in gaol. But that's not really locking much, is it? You still have like 95% of the content and gear available to you. I guess you could argue HM Aminon is "locked", but that's piss easy if you dedicate a whole run to it.

We're looking at two totally different games, brother.

I said it already I'll say it again.
We'll never know for sure but I seriously doubt they specifically planned the tri-runs, the amplifiers and the 5% thing for that end.
It's just an "exploit" players found, and SE decided to let it survive.
I'm very very skeptic that was their plan to begin with.

I duoed to MM45 with a mule (GEO) except for a few Aurums in C. The NMs you named should be possible solo with trusts, but it will potentially be the only thing you do that run.

Odyssey was actually good content IMO, right up until they made the terrible RP point system for the armor sets. A is for solo, B/C for lowman, and Gaol for a full party. The problem was how long they had to stretch the Gaol content because they presumably didn't have funding to make the next content for us, which led to the horrible point system. On top of it, their weird point buildup design means you spend a ton of time just AFK when farming points, which makes it terribly boring.

That's always been my feeling as well BUT are we sure?
Is it a bias of ours?
Does SE even have data they can use to discriminate between these different groups of people? Can they tell people who are "legitimately" playing together vs those who are multiboxing 6 accounts?
And if they can, do they even care to do it?

I'm not so sure things are as simple as they may seem at first glance.

Aymur/Agwu
Dolchenus/Crepuscular Knife, Ternion dagger +1
Spalirisos/Fernagu, Ikenga

Digirbalag and Purgation can be good offhand axes. However I think Agwu's has them solidly beaten and faster to get.

Balancing content so that only bleeding edge players can realistically complete it, while everyone else has no realistically attainable finish line, is terrible for player retention.

The argument that people will finish and unsub misses the point. That group is a minority, and designing around them actively harms motivation and engagement for the wider community and makes people who wait and see before resubbing less likely to even resub.

Lemme help out!

There was a disconnect between the JP and NA side for the augments, some JP sites had magic dmg+ instead of mab and there's zero information that I can find of anyone augmenting. But I was able to snag the hq2 and was saving up matters from the month before and it bothered me so I caved and upgraded smn hands instead of saving for my mnk :(

Rank 1-14 are just acc, rank 15 it gets both +2 mab and +1 bpd.



So far I'm at rank 17 and the trend has been consistent, +2mab/+1bpd. I'll probably be able to get to rank 18 this week and 20 after next weeks runs, once I can hit rank 21 I will report back if there's any change in pattern.

Pls stop

For what it's worth, when talking about Arebati KI#1, the lower you can push it the better, so bringing an optimized setup to both KIs will improve your chances of winning.

Keeping that in mind, I would never bring a THF to either ki. It's not to say it's impossible to do, but it would unnecessarily weaken the chances of success.

Our best KI1 was 39%, which i think we did twice...it makes KI#2 much easier, though we've still managed to *** it up even with a good headstart from the first KI.

I was trying to find another dual wield option as it felt like an eternity when dual wielding axes. Agree that single wield might be the way to go for now.

In a side note, it’s refreshing to see bst benefiting from limbus gear :)

5 for wave1, 13 for wave 2, 22 for o/u

The amount of time/effort is a bit insane atm.
It was the same for Odyssey RP (and initially it was capped at R15...) but then they released the Amplifiers, which worked even more in favour of players (and I doubt SE planned for that) with the "5% RP runs".
That made what would've been an insanely intense amount of grind, into something that's still intense but nowhere close to what it could've been.
This is just a pure, lucky coincidence. SE clearly didn't plan for that, but players found it, and SE was either too slow to react to the point they decided to leave it be, also because it was de facto "fixing" the issue without requiring any further work on their side.


Limbus is in a similar situation? Better than the pre-amplifier Odyssey I would say, but still very intense.
Will anything change in the future? I sure hope they're planning for something.
It's good having things to do in FFXI and not getting bored afk because you have "nothing to do". But too much is too much, between the "forced" daily logins, the amount of efforts to coordinate V25 kills in Odyssey, the amount of time spent to farm segments (unless you're one of the lucky ones like me who farmed enough already), the amount of time spent in daily >1hr in the walking simulator that is Sortie, which for an average group of 8bosses run it's tonna take you ~10 months to complete a weapon.

I mean... it's hard to balance things out, but it's easy going from one extreme "nothing to do" to the other "omg this is stressing me out, too many things to do at the same time I feel overwhelmed".

If anything, it's about time they should do some catch up campaigns for Odyssey, maybe soon for Sortie too.
Content has been out long enough to justify something of the sorts without making the "day one" pro players too angry about the noobs catching up to them, eventually.

The whole odyssey moogle mastery system that was supposed to make the content more approachable for solo play is a parody.
It takes so long to upgrade that even REMA grind pales in comparison.
Then there are the solo dong blocks sprinkled in like some NMs (Kuk, Taniwha, Gloios and what ever C throws at you) that can't be soloed or only on very specific niche jobs. Don't get me started on the coffers and gold chests or the 3 jobs system for gaol.

You'll be long done with all unity upgrades you're after before getting any meaningful MM progress and even after this long grind it only opens up a tiny part of gaol for solo clears.

Odyssey wasn't good for solo play, it had interesting basic approaches but completely failed at execution.

It will take a year to R30 a single full set of armor so that's like.. Three jobs at ML50!

Fun design.

Hmmm that manly, full of testosterone, arousing galka smell.
GIMME MORE :Q__ _ _

Bastok smells too much like Galka. Who wants that.

This spread leaves a room open for fTP range from 4.244942197 to 4.481697147

This is the realest answer I've seen in a while.

There are so many ppl I hear from that are comparing finished product Odyssey V25 and all, to unfinished Limbus.

Yet. They said they are adding, specifically, new Tier 3 strength NMs. Now whether those are free combat or party exclusive is yet to be seen.

/raise hand

Been saying this is a potential issue since day one. The "people who want to see the fight but can't because it's done already when they login".
Easy to fix that if they want to, I think it was Nynja who proposed this fix?

Make them work in cycles of weekly reset.
They can pop on each conquest tally, but you need to kill them only ONCE in a month (patch cycle) to receive benefits the following month.
From Week1 to Week2 Monster HP will stay the same and won't reset if you didn't kill it.
That is: if a server didn't kill it on week1, they will get a chance to finish the job on week2, and then week3 etc. The "repop" thing only applies for servers who killed it on the previous week.

I think this would solve most (all?) issues of the various models they attempted to deploy so far.

I don't "hate" Limbus and I don't think I hate Odyssey.
I do think there's several game design mistakes they did with Odyssey as a whole and that, to date, they refused to address.
Some things worked out, some things didn't despite their (weak) attempts at fixing it. Regardless of that it's a mixture of things and feelings.
For me it's truly a mixture of love & hate. Won't make a full list because it would take 20 text pages and nobody cares anyway.
Several things I hated, several things I loved, a few things which I think are objectively planned in a very wrong way and that in any other "normal" game would've been long addressed by now, but hey this is FFXI we're talking about and things works differently here :-P

I farmed a bunch of segments with a group while working on moogle mastery. It was something for job points and/or EP if that was even a thing in 2020.

Limbus is more of the same, except there's no challenging fight to prepare mechanics for. It's just a free for all of hoping you're in the main alliance at JP midnight for some NMs popping and watching one 6 boxer go in to MPK everyone. How many people have not even seen any of the NM or Omega/Ultima on Asura cause their playtime didn't line up when it popped and now have nothing challenging for the rest of the month?

The climbs are puggable and that's fine, but the progress is so *** slow. It's great that you can get EP and Units at once, but even for EP after all these years, it's going to take me like 4 months of doing Limbus daily to get enough EP to get one job to 50. That design sucks.

Glad to be proven wrong but I think their rough "60% done" estimate was before Ultima/Omega.
Which means at this point there's waaaay less than 40% left to be done I'm afraid.

"New" players can't come back to anything, kind of why they are called new players.

Genuine question to all the people that hate limbus. Did you all hate odyssey to the same degree for the 8 months before Gaol was added? Do you still hate odyssey or has that changed?

Ah yes, grinding Sortie and Limbus for two hours a day, driving up those subscription numbers. Just can't keep people away from the game now.

But at least the content is soloable!*

*You likely won't have enough currency to upgrade a weapon from Sortie or any of the new gear until 2035. Please look forward to it. It's totally reasonable!

Releasing it being mostly complete would probably be a better start, granted this is something they havent really done since omen I wanna say. But the initial drop of "just grind for units" was a poor 1st step and the trickle of new "NMs" hasnt added much either until the most recent one.

I still think Limbus could be made into something that could appeal to multiple styles of play if they wanted to do so, though with it being "60%" done already I'm not sure if that remaining 40 would be much different from what's already been presented.

I'm first in line about not being super happy with Limbus, finding the amount of time required/grind excessive and blah blah.

At the same point though I wonder, what should they have done differently? Because I can't find an easy answer.
Not that it's my role to find answers, I'm not a game dev, but still...


I mean, if you want to create an event where Solo is possible and not particularly disincentived but at the same time party play is promoted. How else would you handle things?
It's very easy to balance stuff wrong and if you do just a step in the wrong direction can turn an event that's basically super inefficient in party and everybody plays solo, or vice-versa an event that makes no sense solo and party is basically mandatory.

Here things are different, sure it's likely the majority are soloing, but there's still a considerable amount of people who does it in party (yes, people with an army of mules still counts as "party", and that's another problem entirely, it's the same old plague of people with 5 accounts that SE always refused to acknowledge).
I think they did a good job in balancing things so that party looks attractive but without making solo unviable.

I'd welcome some small additional incentives to party play with open arms, but I frankly can't think of anything they could do.


They should create a new chest tier though, where Matter #1 is 100% guaranteed even in the 3k chest, and there's a chance for a Matter #2. Both are guaranteed in the 5k chest.
Also make so matters can be turned into units or bought with units.
That would create a lot of freedom for players without completely destroying the grind.

Ow no.

Vyre-kun changed his avatar for a SUS character…