Gallimaufry As A Global Currency.

Guys, you can already beat Kirin without an ebody or a ridill, *** that ***. Can already beat everything in the game without a relic weapon, why bother? Do you really NEED Askar head in order to beat Fafnir?

It's an RPG, the point is to improve your character, because you're playing the role of your character and advancing their stats.

I've said it plenty of times, I loathe the use-it-or-lose-it system for Odyssey and Sortie. Its garbage. But I'm not gonna read *** like "we never had dailies in 20+ years of FFXI" and let that go unchecked.

Or

Those higher-ups at SE didnt like when people did Delve for literally 14 hours a day because there was no lockout, got all the loot within a week, then unsubbed for 6 months.

They've mentioned a million times that they're worried about people slamming the instances all at the same time.

If you give people 7 tags of Ody and Sortie, they will all do them on Saturday night, occupying an instance for 7 hours straight.

Oh, and of course the game will be a ghost town M-F

Let's be honest. That didn't happen at scale.

Anyone so addicted to XI to run Delve for 14 hours a day was not likely to unsub once they got their gear.

I was certainly one of those people, and I'm still here spending my time and money on this nonsense.

If that were true then every event over the last decade would have been daily and not the average of 3 days or stored tags to us at a player's convenience.

Assault was released April 2006
Salvage was released December 2006 (at 2k per permit lol)
June 2007 reduced to 1500 pts
RvB released Sep 2007

Also Salvage started on a 3 day lockout.

That is exactly my point. Clearly not intended to be done daily. I'm glad you agree.

Let the sheep deal with 30 minute instance waits because they want to do all their runs on a saturday, and the smart people can stagger their runs during the ghost town times. The game already has queue systems implemented and they can limit the amount of resources tied to instances, so hardware limitation isnt an issue. If the worry is "the players will complain", then boo *** hoo. Since when has that ever been a concern to SE, as long as its not a lot of JP players? If the instance has a 30 minute queue 24/7, then theres a problem. If the instance of a not-forced-daily event has a 30 minute queue only on saturdays, theres no problem.

I dont complain about traffic when I have to drive during rush hour. Well, I do, but no one listens, because its rush hour, theres gonna be traffic.

I'd argue non-soloable content on a three day lockout is even worse than daily.

Its not like you can solo and make up for it. Your group ran without you.


And once again, more C A P
Your point was that "you couldnt sustain Assault points to do salvage daily". You didnt know it was on a 3 day lockout, you forgot. On a 3 day lockout, you could sustain enough points to do Salvage when the timer was up.

Nope, but you would complain if the city intentionally designed the roads in a way that caused extra traffic, or failed to notice/mitigate an obvious problem that would cause traffic.

But if we're being honest here, literally no matter what design choices were made, large swaths of people were going to complain.

If you guys are done circle jerking each other, sortie is still bad.

Have you ever driven through Montreal?

Yes, I geared the one job I take to sortie, the only job whose Gallimaufry is increased as a result of this. All of the other jobs I play outside of that ONE job I use for sortie will otherwise slow down my progress insortie. I’m really not sure how that is difficult to understand. Suddenly needing to have Ranger at the ready for Arebati? Up to a 400k deficit. Samurai for Kalunga? Warrior for a ton of things? Wow, right there is a 1.2 million hit against weapon progress. Upgrading overlapping jobs with people in the static? More chipping away at weapon progress. Not everyone has the time to sit there and tryhard everyday. Connecting armor to the same currency system is shitty design. Full stop.

NO BUT IT SHOULD be rewarded in every VANABOUT TIER

Your weapon progress stops, but your progress in other areas continues. Your return on any investment you make in gear upgrades is immediate and the opportunities that open up are easily worth any 'delay' to your weapon. I can't feel bad for you and you really shouldn't either.


Game over, man. This is our balance. This is our endgame. This is forever. The idea of delay and setback no longer have meaning here.

Still not as bad as 75 er relic making

Can we at least trade those sapphire and -drites for muffins, even unopened cases?

We had 8-10 months of sortie with a galla cap of 100k to build empyrean +2/+3, and since the cap was raised runs have only become more effecient because people have become familiar with the zone layout, nms, and strategies. Runs today should average more galla per run than they used to, and if you have to build some empyrean +3 today then so be it. If you need empy +3 then that's your priority. Just build it. You can go back to grinding your prime immediately after. It's really not that big of a deal.


This is no different from needing to gear a job up from scratch for any content at any era of the game's life. Odyssey Gaol Nms released about 3 years ago now. When it did a lot of people had to gear up a bunch of new jobs for that content. I added and geared 8 jobs for the Gaol fights in that time frame. It wasn't fast, and there was a lot of grinding, but it was steady and it gave me something to work toward. Building REMAs, farming JSE, getting all those random accessories, getting job points and Mlvls.... its all part of the process of gearing a new job. What would you be doing with your time in game if you didn't have these things to keep you occipied? There's already a lack of new content to keep us busy. Without goals to work toward people just get bored and stop logging in.

Still not as fun as 90 era relic making. Just casual straight farming for an hour. Sure you had to move camps, but the time split of running to combat was predominately combat.

I guess Ody for 30 minutes daily is the equivalent?

A few months back, when this was being discussed a lot more, IIRC one of the few things most agreed on was how dumb it was they use the same currency.

That said, I think Melliny's right by now. Yea the loss of progress sucks, but it's really not that significant in the grand scheme of things. If you are finishing a Prime in any reasonable timeframe, you aren't losing that much progress, a few days. If you are finishing one in a long, drawn out, PUG fashion then yea it's frustrating, but again, you are talking about a week and a half -ish in what amounts to an almost year long grind. You also don't have to 5/5 every job, not all pieces are useful for all jobs and many of them lack the defensive stats to be survivable in v25 or just don't have many uses (or are still broken). The overall cut of time compared to finishing Primes really isn't that bad despite looking at the raw numbers.

I agree it's stupid and bad design, I wish it was different, but I'd rather they increase galli gain across the board than separate currencies.

We can discuss all of this until we're blue in the face, they aren't going to change anything. I feel like it's impossible to really fully understand their vision for the game and the way they think it should work, especially in light of them going to the effort to implement that asinine basement enrage system, then doubling down on it before finally backing off when the entire community raged against how stupid it was. I think I get what they were going for with it, but it shouldn't have taken more than 2 minutes of discussion to realize how stupid it was and I think it's the epitome if their vision for the future of XI. I've just come to accept that their vision of what players are willing or want to do is different than what I think (and sometimes flat disconnected from reality like Vanabout), adjusting my expectations accordingly. It's given me a chance to care less about having everything finished and maxed, focus on more engaging/fun strategies even if they are less efficient, and focus on jobs I have either rarely touched or haven't done anything with since 75-cap.

My main regret is that the weapons seem to have real potential for making Sortie more interesting. With no new content coming, I think this had a chance to breathe life into content that was already getting stale. We've been low manning them for several weeks now and I can see some interesting uses or experimental cases for them in smaller groups, but they are locked behind such a slow progression process that I'm not sure it's even really a worthwhile goal until everything else is done.

I think the primary disconnect between the FFXI devs and the players is the goals; here are the two most prominent content examples that highlight what I've noticed: ML & Prime weapons.

FFXI players want to get these things done as fast as possible, and view them as goals to be accomplished. Everyone complains that ML50 is impossible to get because it requires a shitzillion EP, and they complain that prime weapons take way too long because it takes 6 months to get one, and there are 16 of them.

Devs are looking at these things (I think) as increasing the longevity of the game by giving players something to do after they've already finished everything else. It seems these things were designed to keep players who are already finished with the rest of the game busy.

If we're being honest here, a person who's new/returning or who has limited gear/jobs has a *** of stuff to do. There's content and gear out the *** that they could be working on. There are hundreds, maybe even thousands, of pieces of gear to collect to get your jobs up to fully-geared.

The only people who really have a problem finding things to do are the players who have been playing for years with few breaks and have already done all of the above. They have BiS all their favorite jobs and now have little/nothing to do. This is supposed to be what Prime/ML are for: a carrot to give those players something to accomplish instead of just having to quit because there's no way to improve their character anymore.

People don't see it that way though, they see it as a shiny new thing that they can't get NOW. What would you do if you had GM powers for a day and poofed all 16 prime weapons in your inventory, gave yourself ML50, and R30'd all the odyssey gear? There'd be nothing left to do...

Actually the real problem is that in 20+ years in FFXI, there were absolutely never any dailies up until Ody and Sortie.

There were dailies, they were just stuff you could do in 1-5 minutes. RoEs, box checks, mog garden, etc. that youd lose that days points/rng roll if you didnt do them, or just basic login rewards.

Also Omen originally was that way iirc, but got changed a few months in, while sortie/ody remain the same

I think you missed a joke from the last page.

The disconnect between the devs and the playerbase is obvious. And some gripes are justified; while others less so. We've been asking for 3 years for moglophones to stack to 3 so we can store runs like omen. This is a valid request and a quality of life upgrade that we should have gotten ages ago but probably never will. I can find fault for that. I also think the complaints about the Mlvl 40-50 are equally valid. let's be honest here. We all know that the vast majority of people with an Mlvl 50 job either had help from friends who botted, botted themselves, or paid the RMT mercs to bot it for them. I'm sure there are some people who legitimately grinded them out at exemplar camps without automating the process, but they're an extreme minority. Grinding exemplar mobs for days (literally) is not fun or intuitive, and it isn't a healthy way to spend your time playing.

The grind to build a prime weapon is more open ended and I think it's less of an issue. People complain about the grind because they either don't have a static, don't want to do the content, or just don't enjoy the event. If your group can clear 8 bosses daily, and if they can rotate in a HQ aminon kill with AE + CG boss kills then that's 50-55k galla a run. It's perfectly feasible to build a stage 4 in 3 months or a stage 5 in 6. Whether people are willing to do it or not is a matter of priority and connections. All REMAs have a significant grind. This one happens to be of a different type. There is no McGuffin farming apart from the galla and the mesos, you don't have to run through hoops with magian trial kill quests and a bunch of different currencies. And the progress is gated so you can only get them so fast. That's just how they designed the process. I think it's mostly fine. Some people just hate sortie. I happen to despise magian kill trials like nothing else. To each their own. I would put Prime weapon grinding in a similar category as oddy gaol mobs, which apart from V25 I think is mostly fine. The V25 grind is kind of nonsense though. Some of the fights are just plain stupid even if they are beatable.

As usual I'm terrible at being succinct which obfuscates my points but I think the difference is something like:

Players: "How am I supposed to finish this?"

Devs: "What if they finish this?"

It's the complete opposite. Players are looking at the daunting tasks (taking 8 years to finish all 16 prime weapons) and thinking the goals are ridiculous and the scale is off. Devs are looking at the tasks thinking "Good, they shouldn't run out of things to do".

I'm not suggesting that grinding ML is fun, I hate it, but it gives you a reason to do things in general. If you're ML42 and you go to help a friend grind their new job some CP, or to get ML0-20, you're still getting something. When you do segments or Sortie, you're getting (some) EP. Once you hit 50, you're not getting anything from doing those things anymore; It's pretty easy to see how that would be a negative thing.

Imagine ML50 only required the EP that ML30 requires today. Everyone would be ML50 on any job they gave a ***about and the EP system would be dead. Imagine prime weapons took 1 month to complete instead of 6. Primes would be like aeonics, the best players would be finished with every prime they cared about and picking up primes "just in case" for future jobs they *might* play in the future, or they'd just be uninstalling the game.

IDK, obviously with anything there needs to be a balance and I can see the argument that the balance is too far on the grind side, but I think there's something to be said about making sure that seasoned players have some motivation to continue, rather than giving them everything they want quickly.

...And I got long-winded again, sorry. Hopefully you get my point. Imagine you only play WHM and prime weapons take 1 month to complete. You'd have nothing to do one month after the prime update released and you'd be cursing SE for making such a wet fart of an update.

It's ok to only want to build one or two, maybe three primes and stop you know. Just because there are 16 primes doesn't mean you need to have them all. How many people have every mythic? Every empyrean? Every Aeonic? Yeah, I thought so. Even though aeonics are the simplest to complete you'll be hard pressed to find someone who has most, let alone all of them. If you only want to build a couple primes I think its a perfectly fine way to hold interest in the game for a while. It's important to have reasonable expectations and goals.

NGL, I saw the title and assumed SE was adding more things to spend gallimaufry on.