Bullying Good For The Soul?

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Bullying good for the soul?
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 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-07-28 15:34:20
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Provocative new study finds bullies have highest self esteem, social status, lowest rates of depression



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A just-published Canadian study has added heft to a provocative new theory about bullying: that the behaviour is literally in the genes, an inherited trait that actually helps build social rank and sex appeal.

If accepted, the hypothesis rooted in evolutionary psychology could transform how schools confront the persistent and often-shattering problem.

Conventional wisdom has long suggested that bullies are “maladapted,” troubled people, lashing out because they had been abused or harassed themselves or at least had dysfunctional home lives.
Don MacKinnon for National Post
Don MacKinnon for National PostJennifer Wong at SFU. Wong surveyed high school students about teen bullying as an evolutionary behaviour to gain status.

But researchers at Simon Fraser University surveyed a group of Vancouver high school students and found bullies were the least likely to be depressed, had the highest self-esteem and the greatest social status.

“Humans tend to try to establish a rank hierarchy,” says Jennifer Wong, the criminology professor who led the study. “When you’re in high school, it’s a very limited arena in which you can establish your rank, and climbing the social ladder to be on top is one of the main ways … Bullying is a tool you can use to get there.”

Most anti-bullying programs try to change the behaviour of bullies — and they usually don’t work, says Wong, who reviewed the literature on program outcomes for her PhD thesis. That’s probably because the behaviour is biologically hard-wired, not learned, she says.

Wong recommends that, instead of trying to change how bullies think, schools expand the range of competitive, supervised activities they can participate in — giving them a less harmful channel for their dominating tendencies.
 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-07-28 15:35:03
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This is continued some but I wonder how everyone sees this......... I've done no fact checking so feel free to destroy this if you can.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-28 15:36:13
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Bullies are less likely to be depressed and suffer from self-esteem issues than those who get bullied, YOU DON'T *** SAY?!?!?!
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By fonewear 2015-07-28 15:36:40
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A Canadian study. I'm going to have to stop you right there !
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 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-07-28 15:37:15
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Bullies are less likely to be depressed and suffer from self-esteem issues than those who get bullied, YOU DON'T *** SAY?!?!?!

What about people who enjoy being demeaned?

Amended:

What about the section stating it's not a learned behaviour but hard-wired into our DNA so to speak? Feels more like the Evil gene Theory resurfacing.
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2015-07-28 15:37:43
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fonewear said: »
A Canadian study. I'm going to have to stop you right there !

Too late!
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-07-28 15:41:33
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I'm not sure about full on hardcore bullying, but I could see it.

However, I thought bullies bullied cause of growing up in broken households or something.
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By Jetackuu 2015-07-28 15:42:52
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I'm not sure about full on hardcore bullying, but I could see it.

However, I thought bullies bullied cause of growing up in broken households or something.
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
Conventional wisdom has long suggested that bullies are “maladapted,” troubled people, lashing out because they had been abused or harassed themselves or at least had dysfunctional home lives.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-07-28 15:44:20
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I'm going be honest, I didn't read the article. Just the larger font text.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-28 15:46:11
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
What about the section stating it's not a learned behaviour but hard-wired into our DNA so to speak? Feels more like the Evil gene Theory resurfacing.
Young people tend to do whatever it works to impress the peers. In the school paradigm, unfortunately, there's the winners and the losers and that's how many are going to approach it. Impress your peers by showing you're not part of the losers group, detach yourself and obstentate dominance, with disregard of consequences for the victims(because at that age not many are able to process the weight their own actions have).

Put a jock that is somewhat stupid in a class of genius kids and they will likely be bullies just as in what is usually the standard opposite scenario.

Instinct to fit in + raging hormones + pack mentality do a very bad mix.
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By fonewear 2015-07-28 15:47:31
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All of this reminds me of high school which I've drank beer to forget !
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By fonewear 2015-07-28 15:47:57
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How dare you cause me emotional stress on a Tuesday !
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By fonewear 2015-07-28 15:49:20
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
What about the section stating it's not a learned behaviour but hard-wired into our DNA so to speak? Feels more like the Evil gene Theory resurfacing.


Instinct to fit in + raging hormones + pack mentality do a very bad mix.

Sounds like Bruce Jenner !
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By volkom 2015-07-28 15:49:21
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I'm not sure about full on hardcore bullying, but I could see it.

However, I thought bullies bullied cause of growing up in broken households or something.
what about bullies who bully someone simply because they don't like em?
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-07-28 15:50:31
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volkom said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I'm not sure about full on hardcore bullying, but I could see it.

However, I thought bullies bullied cause of growing up in broken households or something.
what about bullies who bully someone simply because they don't like em?
It's the beginning of a fascist life style.
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By fonewear 2015-07-28 15:52:49
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The end of the fascists life cycle is accusing everyone but yourself of being a fascist !
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By Bloodrose 2015-07-28 15:54:18
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
I'm not sure about full on hardcore bullying, but I could see it.

However, I thought bullies bullied cause of growing up in broken households or something.
It's a common theme. The bullies, as far as most studies across the globe have reported (and they seem to be saying the same thing) is that those who are bullied at home, tend to do it because of several reasons:

1. It's shown as acceptable practice to pick on the weak.

2. by picking on the weak, those who are bullied at home, or in another private setting, do so to build up their self-esteem.

3. There has been little evidence to support the idea that it makes all bullies feel good - many bully others simply so they don't become the victim (and feel like ***for being bullied into bullying another)

4. Not all bullies come from a broken home - Many come from a well intact house hold, but learn behavior that is contrary to what their parents have taught them (and the parents often deny any wrongdoing on the part of their child/children), but still manage to enable such activities.

5. Of those who come from a well to do, and very close family, they still learn the behavior to bully others that are seen as inferior to them due to social standing, ethnicity, education, position, and other such factors.

6. In a just and moral (subjective, I know) society, how is bullying good for the soul? The study seems to suggest that bullying others leads to kids feeling better about themselves (at least, the ones that aren't beaten up or bullied every day of their lives into a bottomless black pit of despair that follows them home) and that they will grow up to be productive, rather than destructive, members of society.

7. While this part is purely personal experience on my part, very few of the bullies of my day ever went on to be anything remotely productive. Of the ones who personally came out to apologize, they experienced personal growth and development - which is what lead them to become functioning adults who could own up to their mistakes and blunders, grow from it, and teach others not to make the same mistake more than twice.

8. Bullies, according to many reports worldwide, often operate as a group because they are weak themselves on an individual level, or have some kind of fear, where numbers makes it easier to prey on those they see as weak. Very few bullies out there, can operate on their own.

I'd go on, but it feels like I'm ranting now.
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By fonewear 2015-07-28 15:54:43
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9. I don't have anything to add I just like numbers !
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-07-28 15:56:08
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fonewear said: »
The end of the fascists life cycle is accusing everyone but yourself of being a fascist !
That's deep man.
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By fonewear 2015-07-28 15:58:56
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For the longest time I thought Mussolini was an Italian restaurant not a brutal fascist !
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By Bloodrose 2015-07-28 15:59:53
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fonewear said: »
For the longest time I thought Mussolini was an Italian restaurant not a brutal fascist !
I thought it was a soup.

"Waiter, my soup has a mustache in it"
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2015-07-28 16:00:13
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Cerberus.Conagh said: »
This is continued some but I wonder how everyone sees this......... I've done no fact checking so feel free to destroy this if you can.

I did a google search and could find not find the article name or journal it is supposedly published in.

I'd like to see the questionnaire used and see her methodology section before giving an opinion, but I'm not impressed by
1) a questionnaire being used at one high school for 135 students then using that as the basis to make large assumptions on bullies everywhere
2) about the DNA hardwire versus learned behavior, that is her opinion that was not tested in this study.

Quote:
Wong and student Jun-Bin Koh surveyed 135 teenagers from a Vancouver high school. A standard questionnaire – asking things like how often they were “hit, kicked or shoved” – divided the students into the categories of bully, bystander, victim or victim-bully.

Some of the differences were not statistically significant, but bullies — about 11% of the group — came out on top on three main outcomes: they scored highest on self-esteem and social status and lowest on depression, says Wong’s paper in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence.

She admits the research is less than definitive, but is now hoping to repeat it with a much larger sample size and more statistical power.

So, so far, I'm not impressed with her analysis.
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 Valefor.Endoq
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By Valefor.Endoq 2015-07-28 16:00:21
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Getting bullied when I was in school was beneficial to me in the long run. Even some of the kids doing it told me they just wanted me to be a better person. I thought they were *** with me, but now I think it might have been "tough love". Bullying the weak makes them stronger, this is something that is found in most species of animal as well.
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By fonewear 2015-07-28 16:01:31
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We have our own bully in chief Obama. Just try to disagree with him !

Sorta related to bullying. To be successful in life sometimes you have to be the bully. I have no evidence to prove it but it sounds good !
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By Bloodrose 2015-07-28 16:02:48
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Bahamut.Kara said: »
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
This is continued some but I wonder how everyone sees this......... I've done no fact checking so feel free to destroy this if you can.

I did a google search and could find not find the article name or journal it is supposedly published in.

I'd like to see the questionnaire used and see her methodology section before giving an opinion, but I'm not impressed by
1) a questionnaire being used at one high school for 135 students then using that as the basis to make large assumptions on bullies everywhere
2) about the DNA hardwire versus learned behavior, that is her opinion that was not tested in this study.

Quote:
Wong and student Jun-Bin Koh surveyed 135 teenagers from a Vancouver high school. A standard questionnaire – asking things like how often they were “hit, kicked or shoved” – divided the students into the categories of bully, bystander, victim or victim-bully.

Some of the differences were not statistically significant, but bullies — about 11% of the group — came out on top on three main outcomes: they scored highest on self-esteem and social status and lowest on depression, says Wong’s paper in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence.

She admits the research is less than definitive, but is now hoping to repeat it with a much larger sample size and more statistical power.

So, so far, I'm not impressed with her analysis.
Having read the article linked, it really sounds like a lot of fluff from someone trying to make a name for herself with something controversial sounding, when it's really just ***.
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 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-07-28 16:02:54
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Mussolini did not have a mustache.

 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2015-07-28 16:03:46
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Bloodrose said: »
Having read the article linked, it really sounds like a lot of fluff from someone trying to make a name for herself with something controversial sounding, when it's really just ***.
Statistically speaking, that's exactly what it is.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-07-28 16:03:56
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Is there such a concept as systematic bullying?
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By fonewear 2015-07-28 16:05:13
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Is there such a concept as systematic bullying?

Showing up to a black lives matter as the only white guy. Then saying all lives matter.
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By Bloodrose 2015-07-28 16:06:14
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Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Is there such a concept as systematic bullying?
There is.

Only it's called Systematic Oppression. It's a concept that's culturally ingrained and comes from generations of learned behavior.

All you need to do is look at the long standing corruption in many police precincts, and even within the RCMP. (sorry, had to include Canada, otherwise people jump on outsiders for bashing America)
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