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The real cost of low wages
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-22 14:17:12
Actually I really haven't worked it almost a year.
When I was in the U.S. for ~7 months I tried to find work, but no dice. I worked like hell making money do electronic scraping and precious metal recovery, but that was all me, no employer.
I did however make enough money before that to pay off all my student loans, credit card debt, and invest. So it wasn't like I needed money, just boredom I guess.
Kind of like now. I don't need to work, but after awhile it gets boring.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 14:17:59
Both the computer programmer and the fast food cook are working very hard. The computer programer is using a more complex skillset that took much longer to learn, but anyone who has endured working in a restaurant kitchen during the lunch rush knows damned well that fast food is not "next to nothing" in terms of work. You should tell Jet that, apparently he thinks that a computer programmer is next to worthless. holy hyperbole Batman! Yes, people who work fast food and retail on average work much harder than any programmer I've ever met. Do you need help reading what you just wrote?
By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:18:07
If I wasn't addicted to beer I'd probably give up work !
So sometimes addictions are a good thing. It's motivation to get through the week.
I'd probably be one of those hippies growing organic vegetables selling them at a farmers market. And bitching about the corporations man ! That is my idea of not working.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-22 14:24:58
I can't imagine living paycheck to paycheck. I've always been used to having spare money laying around. I work for something to do.
Even in college I engaged in 'business' adventures to fuel whatever it was I doing, lol.
I had student loans and credit card debt, and a lot, but I always had money and worked when I felt it was needed, mainly if I couldn't afford minimum payments on stuff for the next few months.
My point is, learn to manage your money better.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-04-22 14:25:53
Ok... I hate to be "that guy," but this is an analysis from 1995. I kept wondering why it was referring to AFDC until I checked the publication date. You are correct, I was looking at both studies and posted the wrong one.
Here you go
I looked at the 1995 study to see if there were any major differences between the methodology of reporting the data, and I couldn't find any that stood out. Ok, thanks for the correction.
I don't disagree that there's a certain amount of money available that, for a very certain few, disincentivizes working in favor of collecting government assistance. I only have time to skim the reports, but all it seems to be indicating is that, provided you can qualify for them, you can get the equivalent of X dollars in total. Thing is, the qualifications aren't mentioned.
If you want to qualify for much of anything besides Medicaid (thanks to ACA) and food stamps, you need to be a parent and ideally a woman. Being disabled would sure "help," too, but I have a disabled female friend who has been told to go pound salt, so even that's not a guarantee (she has no kids, though).
There's always going to be some outliers on the statistical curve. A few people will find a way to either game the system or just luck into exactly the right circumstances, and I'm saying that's true of anything you care to name, not just government welfare. One of the former Marine Commandants said that he was "an average Marine who happened to be in the right place at the right time repeatedly" (I may be mangling that quotation slightly), for instance.
If we're going to talk about the value of collecting benefits instead of working, we really need solid numbers of how many people are both able to do so and are actually doing so. I don't deny that there are institutionalized people who've been latched on the dole for so long that they cannot conceive of surviving any other way and, as such, sabotage any attempt to change that, consciously or unconsciously, but I won't be convinced that this is a problem if, say, it represents .1% of all welfare recipients. And I honestly feel like even that number is high, despite it being a thoroughly fictitious line in the sand I just drew.
By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:27:54
I can't imagine living paycheck to paycheck. I've always been used to having spare money laying around. I work for something to do.
Even in college I engaged in 'business' adventures to fuel whatever it was I doing, lol.
I had student loans and credit card debt, and a lot, but I always had money and worked when I felt it was needed, mainly if I couldn't afford minimum payments on stuff for the next few months.
My point is, learn to manage your money better.
I don't mind working it's the routine that I don't like. Getting up early is *** !
I got a Jew to help me manage my money ! I teach him how to not be Jewy !
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-04-22 14:28:54
Yeah I only ever worked jobs like that during the summer for 2 months.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 14:33:01
Both the computer programmer and the fast food cook are working very hard. The computer programer is using a more complex skillset that took much longer to learn, but anyone who has endured working in a restaurant kitchen during the lunch rush knows damned well that fast food is not "next to nothing" in terms of work. You should tell Jet that, apparently he thinks that a computer programmer is next to worthless. holy hyperbole Batman! Yes, people who work fast food and retail on average work much harder than any programmer I've ever met. Do you need help reading what you just wrote? Not at all, but your issue is with frame of reference, as you think of minimum wage workers and people on benefits as the scum of the earth, I don't.
By your warped view, I can certainly see how you came to that conclusion, but your premise is way off, so yeah...
Get your nose out of the air for a bit and come back.
By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:33:05
Actually the dream job is to be the next Mark Zuckerface. Drop out of college use your Jew gold to start a privacy invading social network. Then sit back and watch your FB stock.
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Seraph.Ramyrez
Server: Seraph
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Posts: 1918
By Seraph.Ramyrez 2015-04-22 14:34:21
You know, Fone. Some jokes get really old after a while.
Maybe pack in the feminists and Hebrews and move on. :p
By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:35:28
Well at least it isn't a discussion about low wages ! Or even better the countless non Hillary Hillary news.
By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 14:38:29
My point is, learn to manage your money better. Not everyone has the luxury of having the spare money.
I've worked paycheck to paycheck, it blows, it's also why I went back to school, and while that's helped some, I just have more bills to pay.
By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:42:31
Just think we could all be broke like Hillary. I can barely afford the mortgage on my second home !
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 14:42:58
Both the computer programmer and the fast food cook are working very hard. The computer programer is using a more complex skillset that took much longer to learn, but anyone who has endured working in a restaurant kitchen during the lunch rush knows damned well that fast food is not "next to nothing" in terms of work. You should tell Jet that, apparently he thinks that a computer programmer is next to worthless. holy hyperbole Batman! Yes, people who work fast food and retail on average work much harder than any programmer I've ever met. Do you need help reading what you just wrote? Not at all, but your issue is with frame of reference, as you think of minimum wage workers and people on benefits as the scum of the earth, I don't.
By your warped view, I can certainly see how you came to that conclusion, but your premise is way off, so yeah...
Get your nose out of the air for a bit and come back. Putting words in my mouth now, huh?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 14:44:56
My point is, learn to manage your money better. Not everyone has the luxury of having the spare money.
I've worked paycheck to paycheck, it blows, it's also why I went back to school, and while that's helped some, I just have more bills to pay. Maybe you should realize that managing money helps create spare money. You know, instead of buying the latest/greatest gadget, you actually save up to buy that home you want or that car instead of borrowing money to pay for it. Those little costs add up quickly.
But I wouldn't expect you to understand that. That requires responsibility, something you shown you don't have.
By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 14:45:29
Both the computer programmer and the fast food cook are working very hard. The computer programer is using a more complex skillset that took much longer to learn, but anyone who has endured working in a restaurant kitchen during the lunch rush knows damned well that fast food is not "next to nothing" in terms of work. You should tell Jet that, apparently he thinks that a computer programmer is next to worthless. holy hyperbole Batman! Yes, people who work fast food and retail on average work much harder than any programmer I've ever met. Do you need help reading what you just wrote? Not at all, but your issue is with frame of reference, as you think of minimum wage workers and people on benefits as the scum of the earth, I don't.
By your warped view, I can certainly see how you came to that conclusion, but your premise is way off, so yeah...
Get your nose out of the air for a bit and come back. Putting words in my mouth now, huh? Not at all.
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 14:46:12
Both the computer programmer and the fast food cook are working very hard. The computer programer is using a more complex skillset that took much longer to learn, but anyone who has endured working in a restaurant kitchen during the lunch rush knows damned well that fast food is not "next to nothing" in terms of work. You should tell Jet that, apparently he thinks that a computer programmer is next to worthless. holy hyperbole Batman! Yes, people who work fast food and retail on average work much harder than any programmer I've ever met. Do you need help reading what you just wrote? Not at all, but your issue is with frame of reference, as you think of minimum wage workers and people on benefits as the scum of the earth, I don't.
By your warped view, I can certainly see how you came to that conclusion, but your premise is way off, so yeah...
Get your nose out of the air for a bit and come back. Putting words in my mouth now, huh? Not at all. Hey, I'll admit that I put words in your mouth if you admit you are putting words in my mouth.
And yes, it is a trap. Let's see if you can realize where it is.
By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 14:47:37
My point is, learn to manage your money better. Not everyone has the luxury of having the spare money.
I've worked paycheck to paycheck, it blows, it's also why I went back to school, and while that's helped some, I just have more bills to pay. Maybe you should realize that managing money helps create spare money. You know, instead of buying the latest/greatest gadget, you actually save up to buy that home you want or that car instead of borrowing money to pay for it. Those little costs add up quickly.
But I wouldn't expect you to understand that. That requires responsibility, something you shown you don't have.
Haven't shown that, nor did I ever say that anyone should be buying any "gadgets".
Maybe you should realize that some people don't have the spare money to "manage" that they barely cover their food and housing, or don't even technically make enough to do that, that's not even getting into the cost of having a vehicle and keeping it on the road.
You're rather disconnected from the reality of it, it comes as no surprise.
Nice ad-hom though, I did get a chuckle.
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Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2015-04-22 14:48:14
My point is, learn to manage your money better.
I'm buying up morgan silver dollars!
amIdoin'itright?
By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 14:48:40
Both the computer programmer and the fast food cook are working very hard. The computer programer is using a more complex skillset that took much longer to learn, but anyone who has endured working in a restaurant kitchen during the lunch rush knows damned well that fast food is not "next to nothing" in terms of work. You should tell Jet that, apparently he thinks that a computer programmer is next to worthless. holy hyperbole Batman! Yes, people who work fast food and retail on average work much harder than any programmer I've ever met. Do you need help reading what you just wrote? Not at all, but your issue is with frame of reference, as you think of minimum wage workers and people on benefits as the scum of the earth, I don't.
By your warped view, I can certainly see how you came to that conclusion, but your premise is way off, so yeah...
Get your nose out of the air for a bit and come back. Putting words in my mouth now, huh? Not at all. Hey, I'll admit that I put words in your mouth if you admit you are putting words in my mouth.
And yes, it is a trap. Let's see if you can realize where it is. You don't need to admit to anything, you already lost.
By fonewear 2015-04-22 14:49:27
Well if I wasn't spending 20 bucks a month on birth control...I'd be financially stable.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 14:51:23
Whatever you say, Lordgrim Jet.
By EpicFantasy 2015-04-22 14:57:56
When they actually make less than $14k/year without any assistance, you will have a point.
If a family receives less than $14k in wages, they receive up towards $35k in federal handouts....just federal. Depending on the state, that could increase upwards towards $50k. They get that on top of their wages earned. How would you like to get up to $64k per year doing next to nothing? Can I please ask for a citation there? I've been through times of hardship and I've known other people who have done as well. $200 a month in food stamps (this was back around the 2008 crash, the benefit has since been reduced or so I'm told) and virtually nothing else is kind of a long way from pulling down $35 grand a year.
Ok... I hate to be "that guy," but this is an analysis from 1995. I kept wondering why it was referring to AFDC until I checked the publication date. You are correct, I was looking at both studies and posted the wrong one.
Here you go
I looked at the 1995 study to see if there were any major differences between the methodology of reporting the data, and I couldn't find any that stood out. Ok, thanks for the correction.
I don't disagree that there's a certain amount of money available that, for a very certain few, disincentivizes working in favor of collecting government assistance. I only have time to skim the reports, but all it seems to be indicating is that, provided you can qualify for them, you can get the equivalent of X dollars in total. Thing is, the qualifications aren't mentioned.
If you want to qualify for much of anything besides Medicaid (thanks to ACA) and food stamps, you need to be a parent and ideally a woman. Being disabled would sure "help," too, but I have a disabled female friend who has been told to go pound salt, so even that's not a guarantee (she has no kids, though).
There's always going to be some outliers on the statistical curve. A few people will find a way to either game the system or just luck into exactly the right circumstances, and I'm saying that's true of anything you care to name, not just government welfare. One of the former Marine Commandants said that he was "an average Marine who happened to be in the right place at the right time repeatedly" (I may be mangling that quotation slightly), for instance.
If we're going to talk about the value of collecting benefits instead of working, we really need solid numbers of how many people are both able to do so and are actually doing so. I don't deny that there are institutionalized people who've been latched on the dole for so long that they cannot conceive of surviving any other way and, as such, sabotage any attempt to change that, consciously or unconsciously, but I won't be convinced that this is a problem if, say, it represents .1% of all welfare recipients. And I honestly feel like even that number is high, despite it being a thoroughly fictitious line in the sand I just drew.
All right boys and girls take a seat and listen to how my brother-in-law makes doing this child's play.
After working in 5 factory's in two years and getting laid-off at around the 6 month mark from all of them he said screw it.
Know what he did? He got a job working under the table for $15/hr 4hrs a day. He calls himself self-employed but not because of that job. He claims selling certain commodities on his taxes at around 12k for the year.
Guess what this enables him to do?
Free health care for his entire family of 4. Screw the ACA right!
$800 in food stamps a month.
$500 in cash assistance.
He just got 8k back from his tax refund.
Makes $1600 a month under the table, tax free.. Working 4 hours a day.
That is 35k a year not counting the free health care.
The government can do absolute nothing about this since nothing can be proven against him, not like they are gonna go looking anyways because more than likely millions of people do about the same damn thing.
Is this wrong? I used to think so.. But arguing with him about it all the time he always brought up the 5 factory's in 2yrs and I gotta say.. He turned my opinion on the matter.
In his and now my opinion, until something drastically changes. It is everyone for himself, take what you can get. Is this how it should be? No.. Is this the Obama America... Yes..
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
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Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-04-22 15:03:25
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
"Obama made me a free loader." Personal Responsibility™
Thanks for that.
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By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 15:04:46
Really has nothing to do with Obama...
edit: Welcome to the fray Pleebo.
By EpicFantasy 2015-04-22 15:06:24
You guys are failing to see the underlying issues at work here.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-04-22 15:07:11
That your brother-in-law is a bum and you condone it?
By Jetackuu 2015-04-22 15:09:56
You guys are failing to see the underlying issues at work here. Not at all, corporate America *** everyone over but the stock holders and top of the companies, and then blames the poor people, and tells the people in the middle that it's all their fault.
Not to mention: outsourcing, and many other shotty practices that are detrimental to the American people.
But let's continue talking about how the poor want free ***, when all they want is the opportunity to keep a roof over their heads, and food on their table, and to be content, it's not really that complicated.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-04-22 15:10:20
That your brother-in-law is a bum and you condone it? How about everyone else who does it?
Are they all bums, or is it just because somebody who you don't like said it?
Americans are spending $153 billion a year to subsidize McDonald’s and Wal-Mart’s low wage workers
The Washington post
And because its behind a paywall....
Quote: The low wages paid by businesses, including some of the largest and most profitable companies in the U.S. – like McDonald’s and Wal-Mart – are costing taxpayers nearly $153 billion a year.
After decades of wage cuts and health benefit rollbacks, more than half of all state and federal spending on public assistance programs goes to working families who need food stamps, Medicaid, or other support to meet basic needs. Let that sink in — American taxpayers are subsidizing people who work — most of them full-time (in some case more than full-time) because businesses do not pay a living wage.
Workers like Terrence Wise, a 35-year-old father who works part-time at McDonald’s and Burger King in Kansas City, Mo., and his fiancée Myosha Johnson, a home care worker, are among millions of families in the U.S. who work an average of 38 hours per week but still rely on public assistance. Wise is paid $8.50 an hour at his McDonald’s job and $9 an hour at Burger King. Johnson is paid just above $10 an hour, even after a decade in her field. Wise and Johnson together rely on $240 a month in food stamps to feed their three kids, a cost borne by taxpayers.
The problem of low wages and the accompanying public cost extends far beyond the fast-food industry. Forty-eight percent of home care workers rely on public assistance. In child care, it’s 46 percent. Among part-time college faculty—some of the most highly educated workers in the country—it’s 25 percent.
Ebony Hughes is paid $7.50 an hour as a home care worker in Durham, N.C., and has a second job at a local KFC. While the home care industry has the fastest growing number of jobs in America, these workers are some of the lowest paid in the country – earning, on average, $13,000 a year. To get enough hours to pay the bills, Hughes works from 6 a.m. to 11 p.m. But she and her daughter still rely on public assistance to make ends meet.
UC Berkeley’s Center for Labor Research and Education, which I chair, has analyzed state spending for Medicaid/Children’s Health Insurance Program and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, and federal spending for those programs as well as food stamps and the Earned Income Tax Credit.
We found that, on average, 52 percent of state public assistance spending supports working families (defined as working for at least 26 weeks a year and 10 hours a week) – with costs as high as $3.7 billion in California, $3.3 billion in New York, and $2 billion in Texas.
In recent months, the substantial public cost of low wages has prompted elected officials to take action. Legislators in California, Colorado, Maine, Oregon, and Washington are considering increasing the minimum wage to $12 an hour. In Connecticut, a proposal currently moving through the state legislature would fine large companies that pay low wages in an effort to recoup the costs imposed on taxpayers.
When 73 percent of people who benefit from major public assistance programs live in a working family, our economy isn’t operating the way it should – and could – be. From 2003-2013, inflation-adjusted wages fell for the entire bottom 70 percent of the workforce. Over the same time period we have also seen a large decline in the share of Americans with job-based health coverage.
Today – on Tax Day – underpaid workers are striking and protesting in cities across the country and around the globe to call for $15 an hour and the right to form a union. Their success would increase family incomes for tens of millions of adjunct professors, fast-food, home care and child care workers, among other underpaid workers. Raising wages would also generate significant savings to state and federal governments, and allow them to better target how our tax dollars are used.
Public assistance programs provide a vital support system for American families. But when Americans like Wise, Johnson and Hughes are working as hard as they can and are still paid too little to get by without public support, we need action to raise wages. On Tax Day it is a good time to take a hard look at the high public cost of low wages in the United States.
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