Our blu had resist much more lower than 138 and it was with geo focus(and yes minus tizona our blu are geared). I don't think blu stun is reliable on it(we did use blu solo stun till 126ish)
Also ryu dps is not very far from sam, can blu be just as close; I just don't see it.
BLU In Delve
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BLU in Delve
Valefor.Prothescar said: » ...Can replace the ryu DRG... :( Asura.Ccl said: » Also ryu dps is not very far from sam, can blu be just as close; I just don't see it. Mathematically yes, a non mythic BLU should never be less than 10% away from a Ryu DRG with the ability to be even closer than that (both BLU and DRG trailing behind SAM by a decent amount, especially pending how you do skillchains). Depending on what kind of skillchains you're doing, BLU is also much better at skillchaining with Fudo than DRG is, something to consider. Can't have the BLU gearing up for support hybrid though, they need to be going all out for DD. No white wind, winds of promy, whatever. All DD spells and DD traits aside from DEF down. Tizona would lower the gap more easily, a non-mythic BLU is going to have a harder time achieving success, it takes a skilled and very well geared one. The difference between mathematics and practice all comes down to the player you choose to bring. Asura.Ccl said: » Our blu had resist much more lower than 138 and it was with geo focus(and yes minus tizona our blu are geared). I don't think blu stun is reliable on it(we did use blu solo stun till 126ish) Also ryu dps is not very far from sam, can blu be just as close; I just don't see it. Sudden Lunge will suck, Temporal Shift however works like normal Stun spells and is considerably more reliable than additional effects from Physical spells. I've managed Temp shift reliably through Ilvl 129, not taken it to higher than that yet (on 131 personally but Either im on a DD and WHM sucks or im on WHM and a DD sucks wih 40% acc and max buffs out the ***. Temporal Shift can't really be relied on though as a sole form of stun, its recast is far too long
Aite, I'll run numbers when I get time, I had ryu at 1900 dps and sam at 2200dps with our buff on spreadsheet(the difference is smaller in game for us) I'll run blu later; if it's close I was wrong and blu is usefull then!
just be sure to use the right gearsets and account for things like Sinker Drill and the consistency of BLU's DEF downs compared to DRG's!
Pretty sure we cap w/o accounting for blu(nor drg) def down(doing 1 NM/run using Sps etc).
Yeah I'll check gear during week end, don't have time during the week anymore Probably do since I figure you're running with ergon GEO and stuff
Odin.Jassik said: » Ragnarok.Afania said: » I wouldn't compare angon with spell defense down personally, it has downtime and they're not the same. Angon is -25% DEF and it sticks, even if it has downtime. If and when they fix the macc on BLUs DEF down spells, it might change, but right now, Angon > spell def down. And I compare them not because they are actually in competition, but as a reason to take DRG over BLU just as an example. If you only ever fight 1 NM for more than a couple of min, sure. In events you often pull multiple targets, and each NM doesn't last for more than 1 min. So you can't apply it on most targets. They're just not the same. Oh so now the argument is mythic SAM, mythic SAM, mythic DRG vs Mythic SAM, Mythic SAM , BLU.......
IDK how easy it is to line that up for most people in the game, but for me that would be challenging. I thought the argument was SAMx3 (Tsu+solid gear) vs SAMx2 (Tsu+solid gear), BLU (solid gear, and understands how to play the job is a given situation) and is the BLU good enough to replace normal SAM in that line up. But......the more I think about it, finding a BLU that is well geared and understands the job might be harder to find than a mythic DRG or SAM....so nevermind, carry on. Valefor.Prothescar said: » just be sure to use the right gearsets and account for things like Sinker Drill and the consistency of BLU's DEF downs compared to DRG's! The ideal damage comes from dual club and Realmrazer (5-hit to WS) and the COR/DNC using haste samba. So if you are running numbers with swords (other than a mythic), you are doing it wrong. So dont forget about that either! Valefor.Prothescar said: » Temporal Shift can't really be relied on though as a sole form of stun, its recast is far too long I normally cycle between a couple of blus in all honesty but it has decent accuracy Cerberus.Doctorugh said: » Oh so now the argument is mythic SAM, mythic SAM, mythic DRG vs Mythic SAM, Mythic SAM , BLU....... IDK how easy it is to line that up for most people in the game, but for me that would be challenging. I thought the argument was SAMx3 (Tsu+solid gear) vs SAMx2 (Tsu+solid gear), BLU (solid gear, and understands how to play the job is a given situation) and is the BLU good enough to replace normal SAM in that line up. But......the more I think about it, finding a BLU that is well geared and understands the job might be harder to find than a mythic DRG or SAM....so nevermind, carry on. It's not, necessarily, but the bar for being able to pull your weight as a SAM vs as a BLU is much lower. The gear check is lower, the skill check is lower, etc. What are those club gear set ? So I don't have to take forever aiming for optimal!
Asura.Ccl said: » What are those club gear set ? So I don't have to take forever aiming for optimal! Sorry if you don't know what they are and are out of touch on how to play a job how could you comment in the first place? Fail Ccl. Ok still waiting for you to xfer to Asura btw! And I'll keep thinking blu is useless in 130+ it's nowhere near he dps sam and ryu drg show on spreadsheet so that's why I'm asking.
Odin.Jassik said: » Cerberus.Doctorugh said: » Oh so now the argument is mythic SAM, mythic SAM, mythic DRG vs Mythic SAM, Mythic SAM , BLU....... IDK how easy it is to line that up for most people in the game, but for me that would be challenging. I thought the argument was SAMx3 (Tsu+solid gear) vs SAMx2 (Tsu+solid gear), BLU (solid gear, and understands how to play the job is a given situation) and is the BLU good enough to replace normal SAM in that line up. But......the more I think about it, finding a BLU that is well geared and understands the job might be harder to find than a mythic DRG or SAM....so nevermind, carry on. It's not, necessarily, but the bar for being able to pull your weight as a SAM vs as a BLU is much lower. The gear check is lower, the skill check is lower, etc. SAM has lower gear check simply because Tsuru is OP so everyone and their mother can just get one and done......almost every other delve2 weapon DD is not that good either. Delve2 weapon BLU is only 10% behind delve2 weapon MNK only doing melee TP WS pop attack buffs. Tsuru is broken for the amount of work it needs to obtain it, that lowered the gear requirement to play SAM. Ragnarok.Afania said: » Odin.Jassik said: » Cerberus.Doctorugh said: » Oh so now the argument is mythic SAM, mythic SAM, mythic DRG vs Mythic SAM, Mythic SAM , BLU....... IDK how easy it is to line that up for most people in the game, but for me that would be challenging. I thought the argument was SAMx3 (Tsu+solid gear) vs SAMx2 (Tsu+solid gear), BLU (solid gear, and understands how to play the job is a given situation) and is the BLU good enough to replace normal SAM in that line up. But......the more I think about it, finding a BLU that is well geared and understands the job might be harder to find than a mythic DRG or SAM....so nevermind, carry on. It's not, necessarily, but the bar for being able to pull your weight as a SAM vs as a BLU is much lower. The gear check is lower, the skill check is lower, etc. SAM has lower gear check simply because Tsuru is OP so everyone and their mother can just get one and done......almost every other delve2 weapon DD is not that good either. Delve2 weapon BLU is only 10% behind delve2 weapon MNK only doing melee TP WS pop attack buffs. Tsuru is broken for the amount of work it needs to obtain it, that lowered the gear requirement to play SAM. So, your argument for bringing BLU over SAM isn't that it adds something to the group, but that it's unfair that SAM is better? I don't mean to be rude, I'm just trying to figure out what your point is. Odin.Jassik said: » Ragnarok.Afania said: » Odin.Jassik said: » Cerberus.Doctorugh said: » Oh so now the argument is mythic SAM, mythic SAM, mythic DRG vs Mythic SAM, Mythic SAM , BLU....... IDK how easy it is to line that up for most people in the game, but for me that would be challenging. I thought the argument was SAMx3 (Tsu+solid gear) vs SAMx2 (Tsu+solid gear), BLU (solid gear, and understands how to play the job is a given situation) and is the BLU good enough to replace normal SAM in that line up. But......the more I think about it, finding a BLU that is well geared and understands the job might be harder to find than a mythic DRG or SAM....so nevermind, carry on. It's not, necessarily, but the bar for being able to pull your weight as a SAM vs as a BLU is much lower. The gear check is lower, the skill check is lower, etc. SAM has lower gear check simply because Tsuru is OP so everyone and their mother can just get one and done......almost every other delve2 weapon DD is not that good either. Delve2 weapon BLU is only 10% behind delve2 weapon MNK only doing melee TP WS pop attack buffs. Tsuru is broken for the amount of work it needs to obtain it, that lowered the gear requirement to play SAM. So, your argument for bringing BLU over SAM isn't that it adds something to the group, but that it's unfair that SAM is better? I don't mean to be rude, I'm just trying to figure out what your point is. I did not argue bringing BLU over SAM in this thread at all, can you quote any specific post that I argue bringing BLU over SAM? I simply point out it is not fair to use gear check in job comparsion cuz other DD job can not equip a tsuru. Ragnarok.Afania said: » Odin.Jassik said: » Ragnarok.Afania said: » Odin.Jassik said: » Cerberus.Doctorugh said: » Oh so now the argument is mythic SAM, mythic SAM, mythic DRG vs Mythic SAM, Mythic SAM , BLU....... IDK how easy it is to line that up for most people in the game, but for me that would be challenging. I thought the argument was SAMx3 (Tsu+solid gear) vs SAMx2 (Tsu+solid gear), BLU (solid gear, and understands how to play the job is a given situation) and is the BLU good enough to replace normal SAM in that line up. But......the more I think about it, finding a BLU that is well geared and understands the job might be harder to find than a mythic DRG or SAM....so nevermind, carry on. It's not, necessarily, but the bar for being able to pull your weight as a SAM vs as a BLU is much lower. The gear check is lower, the skill check is lower, etc. SAM has lower gear check simply because Tsuru is OP so everyone and their mother can just get one and done......almost every other delve2 weapon DD is not that good either. Delve2 weapon BLU is only 10% behind delve2 weapon MNK only doing melee TP WS pop attack buffs. Tsuru is broken for the amount of work it needs to obtain it, that lowered the gear requirement to play SAM. So, your argument for bringing BLU over SAM isn't that it adds something to the group, but that it's unfair that SAM is better? I don't mean to be rude, I'm just trying to figure out what your point is. I did not argue bringing BLU over SAM in this thread at all, can you quote any specific post that I argue bringing BLU over SAM? My mistake then. I think he's saying SAM is a hard job to totally fail at. So if you had random BLU and random SAM; on average the SAM will help the group more due to its simplicity where as most BLUs fail on how BLU correctly (the learning curve is steeper)
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Just give every job a Save TP 250 weapon with OAT and it'll fix the problem, and give sam a new Tsu with Save TP 300 with stp 10 for balance sake.
Really done properly, WHM, CORx2, BLU, GEOx2 crushes any setup, so long as the enemy isnt resistant to dark damage. Ill just let that marinate a little.
Cerberus.Doctorugh said: » Really done properly, WHM, CORx2, BLU, GEOx2 crushes any setup, so long as the enemy isnt resistant to dark damage. Ill just let that marinate a little. Lol are you trolling. Ragnarok.Afania said: » Cerberus.Doctorugh said: » Really done properly, WHM, CORx2, BLU, GEOx2 crushes any setup, so long as the enemy isnt resistant to dark damage. Ill just let that marinate a little. Lol are you trolling. With all the magic buffs stacked up, sanguine can do some pretty insane numbers, but I think he's being campy. Odin.Jassik said: » Ragnarok.Afania said: » Cerberus.Doctorugh said: » Really done properly, WHM, CORx2, BLU, GEOx2 crushes any setup, so long as the enemy isnt resistant to dark damage. Ill just let that marinate a little. Lol are you trolling. With all the magic buffs stacked up, sanguine can do some pretty insane numbers, but I think he's being campy. Not really, he is just trolling! COR (BLM roll+40mab, Hunters), COR (SAM roll, tact) , Blue mage (benethic Typhoon - 10mdb), GEO (Indi-Malaise, Geo-haste) Geo (Acumen +32mab, Eva down), WHM (boost agi)
Just as a start I'll work with COR: Leaden Salute vs mob with 150 agi AGI 273 MAB +193 Dark Magic damage (head + ring) x1.33 /war +20ftp + ear (+25ftp) 2.93(mab)x 1.33(Dark damage multipler) x 1.05 (WSD back) x [2(273-150) + 5.215 x(204+273)] / 0.5(the magic defense now floored from malaise+typhoon) = 22,364 Now mind you this isnt a mythic COR with a LS bonus. Blu and geo can do similar Flash Nova damage. Sushi+hunters+evadown is enough for OAT40 weapons to cap hit rate for most anything. This combined with tact and sam roll, allow for rapid fire WS's. Does it work, yes and its fun. If you run into a dark resistant mob, Wildfire (a little below Leaden) + flash nova works well enough. If the mob has high meva you can compinsate with RDM roll and geo-macc. I only had one problem with this setup and that was 129 megaboss on incursion. His meva was wildly high. I dont know if that is standard or has to do with the mobs he summoned, because it worked on lower level megabosses. I dont troll....generally speaking, but sometimes the mood strikes me Lastly, (for fun) you can one shot (one leaden salute) about half of the NMs in Skirmish 3, since many take double/triple/w/e magic damage.
http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/75099 This one was without a few of the buffs I described above. I'm confident one could easily break 100k on them with slightly better gear and full buffs Said before, will say it again, If a blu is allowed to DD and is supported, heals nas etc, they will beat everything except Sam, and RYU drg. Thats non-myhthic, so no Tizona. Good luck finding a competent Blu and support that won't ignore it. Don't Have Tizona but here it just makes BLU even better.
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