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execute woman - starving & abusing 9-year-old
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 125
By Asura.Triffle 2014-09-17 17:30:09
Instead of the death penalty what would you do? Put the *** in prison and keep her there where she belongs.
So society should foot the bill to keep these types of people alive in prison?
Again: it's more expensive to kill them.
Ropes are cheap. Instead of wasting time sterilizing rooms and the needles used to inject them with a cocktail of drugs meant to ease your way out.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3995
By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-17 17:31:53
Fenrir.Candlejack said: »The state of Texas murders a negro, no one bats an eye.
Some vigilante cop further north murders a negro, everyone... loses their minds.
Please tell me you can see the difference between those two things. They're both murder, as much as I hate to agree with him on something.
Like everything else in life, it comes down to justification. Whether or not we find the act to be justifiable. There's no such thing as justifiable murder, if it were justifiable then it would be homicide, not murder.
kind of contradicting yourself there, but from the middle.
The ultimate act is the same. Someone is dead. Our justifications is the only thing that mentally changes it. Whether or not its murder, homicide, self defense, it all comes down to justification. The end result is the same.
On topic, i find this execution perfectly justifiable. Ppl like that should not be allowed to live. There is no upside to keeping a person like this alive in prison. The only upside is you conscious feels better. - She tortured over a long time span and killed her kid. If left alive theirs no telling what she will do to other ppl. Most of the time they kill again.
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Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-17 17:32:27
it costs about 2.3 million dollars to execute somebody in texas (the trial fee may be included in that).
I'd like to see the accounting in that. There has to be more to that than just the execution procedure itself.
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Cerberus.Tidis
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3927
By Cerberus.Tidis 2014-09-17 17:33:04
Aside from if someone has a needle phobia, lethal injection is such a pussy way to do it.
I say expose them to anthrax (not the band, although that could be punishment enough.) and let it run its course.
A needle of "Now Mr/Mrs Jones, you're gonna get realllll sleepy. Goodnight now." seems kinda weak. The death penalty is to remove a dangerous person from society, not to exact some cruel punishment in the name of revenge.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3995
By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-17 17:33:11
they're caught and can't harm society anymore,
tell that to the family's of all the guards killed, or those that managed to escape and do more harm before being caught (if they were caught)
By Jetackuu 2014-09-17 17:33:16
Instead of the death penalty what would you do? Put the *** in prison and keep her there where she belongs.
So society should foot the bill to keep these types of people alive in prison?
Again: it's more expensive to kill them.
Ropes are cheap. Instead of wasting time sterilizing rooms and the needles used to inject them with a cocktail of drugs meant to ease your way out. Amendment #8 says hi.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-17 17:34:09
Fenrir.Candlejack said: »The state of Texas murders a negro, no one bats an eye.
Some vigilante cop further north murders a negro, everyone... loses their minds.
Please tell me you can see the difference between those two things. They're both murder, as much as I hate to agree with him on something.
Like everything else in life, it comes down to justification. Whether or not we find the act to be justifiable. There's no such thing as justifiable murder, if it were justifiable then it would be homicide, not murder. kind of contradicting yourself there, but from the middle.
The ultimate act is the same. Someone is dead. Our justifications is the only thing that mentally changes it. Whether or not its murder, homicide, self defense, it all comes down to justification. The end result is the same.
On topic, i find this execution perfectly justifiable. Ppl like that should not be allowed to live. There is no upside to keeping a person like this alive in prison. The only upside is you conscious feels better. - She tortured over a long time span and killed her kid. If left alive theirs no telling what she will do to other ppl. Most of the time they kill again. Not contradicting at all: execution is murder, ergo unjustifiable.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2014-09-17 17:34:22
Amendment #8 is subject to interpretation.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-17 17:34:36
it costs about 2.3 million dollars to execute somebody in texas (the trial fee may be included in that).
I'd like to see the accounting in that. There has to be more to that than just the execution procedure itself. Oh costs of their right to trial, appeal, not sure what else, but that's the law.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-17 17:35:00
Aside from if someone has a needle phobia, lethal injection is such a pussy way to do it.
I say expose them to anthrax (not the band, although that could be punishment enough.) and let it run its course.
A needle of "Now Mr/Mrs Jones, you're gonna get realllll sleepy. Goodnight now." seems kinda weak. The death penalty is to remove a dangerous person from society, not to exact some cruel punishment in the name of revenge. They're already removed from society, they're in prison.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-17 17:35:43
they're caught and can't harm society anymore,
tell that to the family's of all the guards killed, or those that managed to escape and do more harm before being caught (if they were caught) Our prison systems are totally *** up, that doesn't change the fact that executing a prisoner is murder and unjustifiable.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-17 17:37:25
Amendment #8 is subject to interpretation.
hanging by the neck is one hell of a way to go, but all methods except pretty much a firing squad are a pretty nasty way to go. That includes injection.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-17 17:38:39
You ladies have fun with your emotional arguments, I'm going to go do some missions.
Cerberus.Tidis
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3927
By Cerberus.Tidis 2014-09-17 17:39:30
Aside from if someone has a needle phobia, lethal injection is such a pussy way to do it.
I say expose them to anthrax (not the band, although that could be punishment enough.) and let it run its course.
A needle of "Now Mr/Mrs Jones, you're gonna get realllll sleepy. Goodnight now." seems kinda weak. The death penalty is to remove a dangerous person from society, not to exact some cruel punishment in the name of revenge. They're already removed from society, they're in prison. Don't agree with the death penalty personally, just was saying subjecting someone to anthrax to kill them is inappropriate.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3995
By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-17 17:46:58
Fenrir.Candlejack said: »The state of Texas murders a negro, no one bats an eye.
Some vigilante cop further north murders a negro, everyone... loses their minds.
Please tell me you can see the difference between those two things. They're both murder, as much as I hate to agree with him on something.
Like everything else in life, it comes down to justification. Whether or not we find the act to be justifiable. There's no such thing as justifiable murder, if it were justifiable then it would be homicide, not murder. kind of contradicting yourself there, but from the middle.
The ultimate act is the same. Someone is dead. Our justifications is the only thing that mentally changes it. Whether or not its murder, homicide, self defense, it all comes down to justification. The end result is the same.
On topic, i find this execution perfectly justifiable. Ppl like that should not be allowed to live. There is no upside to keeping a person like this alive in prison. The only upside is you conscious feels better. - She tortured over a long time span and killed her kid. If left alive theirs no telling what she will do to other ppl. Most of the time they kill again. Not contradicting at all: execution is murder, ergo unjustifiable.
Again, that circles back to my point earlier about justification.
But one of the fundamental difference in views between us is that you seem to see it as 'Murder' where as i lean more towards a 'self defense'. (Or at least its one way i can look at it.)
If someone comes into your home with the intent to harm, you have the right to take them out. - Self defense of a personal nature.
If you see someone go into your neighbors house with an intent to harm, you can go over there and take them out in defense of your neighbor. - Self defense of a community
An execution in this specific case, i see as a self defense of a societal nature. Someone came into our world with intent to torture and kill. Take them out.
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Also there is just no benefit to keeping them alive. Alive they can continue to torture and kill. Be it inmates, prison guards, or civilians if they escape. If there dead, they can not torture and kill anyone. Ever.
By mortontony1 2014-09-17 17:48:53
She might be not guilty, is the argument against capital punishment.
That and some of us don't feel it's ok to take another human life. Under any circumstance.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-17 17:49:02
Explain to me why race is a factor in this case again?
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By Jetackuu 2014-09-17 17:50:59
Fenrir.Candlejack said: »The state of Texas murders a negro, no one bats an eye.
Some vigilante cop further north murders a negro, everyone... loses their minds.
Please tell me you can see the difference between those two things. They're both murder, as much as I hate to agree with him on something.
Like everything else in life, it comes down to justification. Whether or not we find the act to be justifiable. There's no such thing as justifiable murder, if it were justifiable then it would be homicide, not murder. kind of contradicting yourself there, but from the middle.
The ultimate act is the same. Someone is dead. Our justifications is the only thing that mentally changes it. Whether or not its murder, homicide, self defense, it all comes down to justification. The end result is the same.
On topic, i find this execution perfectly justifiable. Ppl like that should not be allowed to live. There is no upside to keeping a person like this alive in prison. The only upside is you conscious feels better. - She tortured over a long time span and killed her kid. If left alive theirs no telling what she will do to other ppl. Most of the time they kill again. Not contradicting at all: execution is murder, ergo unjustifiable.
Again, that circles back to my point earlier about justification.
But one of the fundamental difference in views between us is that you seem to see it as 'Murder' where as i lean more towards a 'self defense'. (Or at least its one way i can look at it.)
If someone comes into your home with the intent to harm, you have the right to take them out. - Self defense of a personal nature.
If you see someone go into your neighbors house with an intent to harm, you can go over there and take them out in defense of your neighbor. - Self defense of a community
An execution in this specific case, i see as a self defense of a societal nature. Someone came into our world with intent to torture and kill. Take them out.
--
Also there is just no benefit to keeping them alive. Alive they can continue to torture and kill. Be it inmates, prison guards, or civilians if they escape. If there dead, they can not torture and kill anyone. Ever.
It's murder, it's an execution of a prisoner who has no chance of being a threat to society, there's no justification for killing them.
In any of your other cases if the person was already subdued it would be murder to kill them too.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3995
By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-17 17:53:05
She might be not guilty, is the argument against capital punishment.
That and some of us don't feel it's ok to take another human life. Under any circumstance.
I dont like the idea. Its not like im cheering for an oppertunity to go killing. Most other ppl arnt either. But the fact remains that; left alive, she can kill in cold blood again and again. While killing her might suck, at least as far as this case goes, the killing is stopped. - She killed kid, she gets killed. 2 Deaths. / Shes kills kid, kept alive, kills 3 more ppl. 5 Deaths wih the potential for more. Ill take option 1. Needs of the many.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3344
By Fenrir.Weakness 2014-09-17 17:53:07
Explain to me why race is a factor in this case again?
It isn't, but she is black and being executed in Texas which auto-labels it as a race issue for some people.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3995
By Odin.Godofgods 2014-09-17 17:54:11
Fenrir.Candlejack said: »The state of Texas murders a negro, no one bats an eye.
Some vigilante cop further north murders a negro, everyone... loses their minds.
Please tell me you can see the difference between those two things. They're both murder, as much as I hate to agree with him on something.
Like everything else in life, it comes down to justification. Whether or not we find the act to be justifiable. There's no such thing as justifiable murder, if it were justifiable then it would be homicide, not murder. kind of contradicting yourself there, but from the middle.
The ultimate act is the same. Someone is dead. Our justifications is the only thing that mentally changes it. Whether or not its murder, homicide, self defense, it all comes down to justification. The end result is the same.
On topic, i find this execution perfectly justifiable. Ppl like that should not be allowed to live. There is no upside to keeping a person like this alive in prison. The only upside is you conscious feels better. - She tortured over a long time span and killed her kid. If left alive theirs no telling what she will do to other ppl. Most of the time they kill again. Not contradicting at all: execution is murder, ergo unjustifiable.
Again, that circles back to my point earlier about justification.
But one of the fundamental difference in views between us is that you seem to see it as 'Murder' where as i lean more towards a 'self defense'. (Or at least its one way i can look at it.)
If someone comes into your home with the intent to harm, you have the right to take them out. - Self defense of a personal nature.
If you see someone go into your neighbors house with an intent to harm, you can go over there and take them out in defense of your neighbor. - Self defense of a community
An execution in this specific case, i see as a self defense of a societal nature. Someone came into our world with intent to torture and kill. Take them out.
--
Also there is just no benefit to keeping them alive. Alive they can continue to torture and kill. Be it inmates, prison guards, or civilians if they escape. If there dead, they can not torture and kill anyone. Ever.
It's murder, it's an execution of a prisoner who has no chance of being a threat to society, there's no justification for killing them.
In any of your other cases if the person was already subdued it would be murder to kill them too.
they're caught and can't harm society anymore,
tell that to the family's of all the guards killed, or those that managed to escape and do more harm before being caught (if they were caught)
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-17 17:55:56
Put her to death, send her to North Korea, let her rot in prison... I couldn't care less what you do. The state kills people all the time in unjustified wars counter-terrorism special operations around the world, cops kill people everyday. One less state sponsored killing isn't going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
Give her a gun and set her free in Syria. Call her a moderate rebel. Problem solved.
By Jetackuu 2014-09-17 17:56:38
If a guard was killed then it was their own stupidity for placing themselves in that situation, and when was the last time you heard of a prisoner escaping maximum security prison?
This isn't shawshank.
Leviathan.Xsoahc
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 107
By Leviathan.Xsoahc 2014-09-17 17:57:26
Explain to me why race is a factor in this case again?
It isn't, but she is black and being executed in Texas which auto-labels it as a race issue for some people. Makes sense...
By Jetackuu 2014-09-17 17:57:27
Put her to death, send her to North Korea, let her rot in prison... I couldn't care less what you do. The state kills people all the time in unjustified wars counter-terrorism special operations around the world, cops kill people everyday. One less state sponsored killing isn't going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
Give her a gun and set her free in Syria. Call her a moderate rebel. Problem solved. There's a large difference between a state sponsored killing and a state sponsored murder. As for the latter we as a society are responsible.
Personally I don't like having unjustifiable deaths on my conscience.
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2014-09-17 17:58:39
So we should murder people in prison to keep them from escaping? Sounds legit.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-17 17:59:51
If a guard was killed then it was their own stupidity for placing themselves in that situation, and when was the last time you heard of a prisoner escaping maximum security prison?
This isn't shawshank. This guy a few days ago:
Although they caught him like 48 hours later or something like that. One of his accomplices in the escape is still out though.
Leviathan.Chaosx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-09-17 18:02:44
Put her to death, send her to North Korea, let her rot in prison... I couldn't care less what you do. The state kills people all the time in unjustified wars counter-terrorism special operations around the world, cops kill people everyday. One less state sponsored killing isn't going to make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
Give her a gun and set her free in Syria. Call her a moderate rebel. Problem solved. There's a large difference between a state sponsored killing and a state sponsored murder. As for the latter we as a society are responsible.
Personally I don't like having unjustifiable deaths on my conscience. Killing and murder are one in the same.
I highly doubt you're going to have trouble sleeping at night when Texas executes this woman.
Quote: Texas set to execute woman convicted of starving 9-year-old
(Reuters) - A woman convicted of the 2004 starving death of a 9-year-old boy is scheduled to die on Wednesday by lethal injection at a Texas state prison, authorities said.
Lisa Ann Coleman, 38, would be the second woman executed in the United States this year and the 15th since the U.S. Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976.
Coleman is scheduled to be put to death after 6 p.m. Central Time (7 p.m. EDT) at the state's death chamber in Huntsville. She would also be the 517th prisoner put to death in Texas, the most of any state since 1976.
Investigators were called to Coleman's house in July 2004, where they found Davontae Williams dead with a disfigured ear, swollen hands and ligature marks on his wrists and ankles, according to court records.
An autopsy determined that Williams, son of Coleman's long-time girlfriend, Marcella Williams, had died from malnutrition and pneumonia and weighed just 35 pounds, court records said.
He had been beaten with a golf club and bound by an extension cord, investigators found. His body also showed signs of having been treated with over-the-counter medications, ointments, creams and bandages, court records said.
There was evidence that suggested he was fed chicken noodle soup and Pedialyte before he died, but a doctor testified that the food he received was "inadequate ... too late, and possibly too much," court records said.
Coleman was convicted of capital murder by a jury in 2006 and sentenced to death. Williams also was convicted of capital murder. Williams was sentenced to life in prison and is eligible for parole in 30 years, according to prison records.
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