Random Politics & Religion #00

Ok, I get it, you think that government sucks at it's job, and is as awful as I do, but if it wasn't there, your life would be far worse, cause something akin to "free markets are scary".

I don't know why you think so. Free-ing up markets ALWAYS increases competition, increasing competition ALWAYS leads to better value. Seriously, the evidence and arguments are ENDLESS, I don't know why its so hard for some people to accept.

Because we don't trust our government, but we don't trust business even more.

Cartels? Monopoly? Free market is an utopia, on the same level as communism. It doesn't work due to greed.

Why don't you trust businesses? You have complete control over how much of your money they get.

The government is essentially an unregulated non-producing monopoly.

The government doesn't have to give you anything when you pay them. And they don't even have to follow their own rules and regulations they impose on everyone else.

Government, in theory, is business + benevolence. It may not be that in its current incarnation, but government is slated to curb unjust actions and make efforts towards the common good of its people. It can be brought back to that. Are you arguing for the dissolution of government?

The theory saying that being a greedy *** is what's best for society because an invisible force will make it ok?

Every individual necessarily labours to render the annual revenue of the society as great as he can. He generally neither intends to promote the public interest, nor knows how much he is promoting it ... He intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention. Nor is it always the worse for society that it was no part of his intention. By pursuing his own interest he frequently promotes that of the society more effectually than when he really intends to promote it. I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good

Actually, greed is a major component of capitalism, it what keeps businesses in check.

Ever heard of Adam Smith "Invisible Hand" theory?

From www2.hn.psu.edu/faculty/jmanis/adam-smith/wealth-nations.pdf page 213:

The interest of the dealers, however, in any particular branch of trade or manu-factures, is always in some respects different from, and even oppo-site to, that of the public. To widen the market, and to narrow the competition, is always the interest of the dealers. To widen the market may frequently be agreeable enough to the interest of the public; but to narrow the competition must always be against it, and can only serve to enable the dealers, by raising their profits above what they naturally would be, to levy, for their own benefit, an absurd tax upon the rest of their fellow-citizens. The proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce which comes from this order, ought always to be listened to with great precaution, and ought never to be adopted till after having been long and carefully examined, not only with the most scrupulous, but with the most suspicious attention. It comes from an order of men, whose inter-est is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it.

That's just trading one government for another. Your criticism made it sound like we'd be better off without a government, period.

I don't understand how that's even relevant. Yes, I can choose who to fund, and I do, but I am under no delusion that my dollar is influential enough to make a difference. It's the same as voting in a two party system. You vote for the shiniest of two turds. Business looks out for itself and itself only. It only pays any attention to me, or us, when we are directly relevant to their survival. Not a moment more. This also operates under the notion that the masses know what's best.

Bill Gates produced the personal computer.

It's not the same as your dollar. Have you ever negotiated in a retail outlet? They will do far more for you to get your business if you wave your dollar around than any politician will if you wave your vote around.

Do they want as much for their services as possible? Are you bitching that you don't get enough for your money? Then you should argue for every single incentive to increase competition that there is! That's how you get more for your dollar!

He most certainly did not.

I'm sorry, how about "Bill Gates produced the personal computer for personal use by application of a user-friendly interface"?

Either way, he made it possible to have the public use a machine that was only used in colleges and the Army, and make it user friendly.

Did not produce computers?
Was one of multiple OSes, also for personal computers?
Was not particularly any more user friendly than other OSes at the time?
PCs were used outside of military/university/business locations?

Give the man credit where he's due, he is certainly someone that helped revolutionize personal computing. But he sure as hell didn't produce any personal computers.

K, sure, whatever.

Did that change my example at all?

Not to even get into the absurd assertion that the United States Congress can't pass laws.

I guess when you have a Senate Majority Leader who shelves nearly all of the bills that comes his way, no wonder you think that Congress can't pass laws and the president has to abuse his executive power to get what he wants.

Remember you said that when Obama is no longer President.

Bills are shelved when the expected votes are insufficient for passage. It doesn't take a big stretch of the imagination to figure out how and why this occurs.