|
|
Random Politics & Religion #00
 Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-01 13:23:13
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Newest media Hilary email scandal word. "Mundane".
Well there it is folks. "Nothing to see here".
Benghazi and the IRS called. They want their fake scandals back.
Fake Scandal (n.):
1. Any scandal involving a Democrat, especially a powerful one.
Real Scandal (n.):
1. Anything someone says in private that was secretly recorded (out of context or not) and sent to TMZ.
By Bloodrose 2015-09-01 13:24:05
My stance is that we should heavily enforce the borders and make an easier path to citizenship. Is that too unusual? I don't think it's a bad idea. If it were ever expanded on appropriately, I think it might be the kind of solution that would work the best.
However, I can see it as being an unusual approach or idea. Most people on either side of the political fence about immigrants don't think about both aspects to protecting the border (which can also protect new immigrants) while making it easier and, even more prosperous to American born and immigration citizens alike.
Kind of like waking up from the "American Dream" and making it a reality.
[+]
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-01 13:24:40
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »
Well, to expand my thoughts here:
1. Zero-tolerance for illegals that are criminals. Set a fairly low bar for offenses, anything more serious than that is an automatic deportation.
2. As for the rest who are here? Account for them, get them on the path to an easier citizenship (or work visa), make them pay taxes. Any who try to evade get deported.
3. Enforce the borders heavily. Once citizenship isn't insanely prohibitive, they'll see it as an easier way than risking their lives by crossing the desert.
4. ???
5. Profit.
Whats your plan for "heavily enforcing the border?"
Spend more money on defense, but tax the rich less to stimulate hoarding and self investment spending.
Stop putting words in my mouth, you're not funny.
[+]
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-01 13:25:26
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Most definitely. I'm not very concerned about that, though, even if Trump wins. What he's promising basically cannot be delivered.
Trump isn't that stupid, I think. He's just pandering to a fringe of the GOP.
I wouldn't call him stupid, but I think he's underestimating the damage he's doing his potential general election support. Lots more support for kicking them out than you estimate.
Furthermore, we don't even need to kick them out, all we need to do is make it pretty painful for employers to employ them, and maybe cut off the welfare they receive and they will leave on their own.
Wait, so you are asking the government to put business hindering regulations on companies??!
What you mean is "you want government to enforce existing immigration laws?"
Pretty sure I read "make it pretty painful".
Does that mean existing laws are pretty painful enough?
Are they enforced?
Not entirely the point. You've already digressed from the discussion, what's wrong with punishing employers for hiring them? Why can't we make it harder for them to stay?
You also forgot to incorporate "boxcars" in your rebuttals.
Forum Moderator
Server: Excalibur
Game: FFXIV
Posts: 25981
By Anna Ruthven 2015-09-01 13:25:45
Not really reading in-depth here, but in skimming lately, I've seen illegal immigrants brought up several times.
I work in construction; I work with concrete and I hear "the Mexicans are killing us" on a daily basis and, for the most part, you hear quite a bit of racist banter from construction workers. As Jassik said, the reality is that these workers want to support their families or at least better their own lives in the case of them being single. The Mexicans aren't "killing" construction workers, construction workers are killing construction workers. Illegal immigrants take so much ***for....working. Someone has to employ them for them to do this work, blame the employers before you blame the guys who are trying to better their lives or their families lives.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-01 13:27:00
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Newest media Hilary email scandal word. "Mundane".
Well there it is folks. "Nothing to see here".
Benghazi and the IRS called. They want their fake scandals back.
Fake Scandal (n.):
1. Any scandal involving a Democrat, especially a powerful one.
Real Scandal (n.):
1. Anything someone says in private that was secretly recorded (out of context or not) and sent to TMZ.
Seriously, at this point there is no way classified info was not sent through the insecure server.
[+]
By Ramyrez 2015-09-01 13:27:15
Newest media Hilary email scandal word. "Mundane".
Well there it is folks. "Nothing to see here".
There never was.
If you didn't realize she was terrible before this you were already wrong, and if you were actually concerned she was the first/only top government official to keep things secret from the public/lower-ranked officials, then you're horribly naïve.
The only criticism here on this topic is that she clearly didn't do a good enough job of keeping her ***on the d/l, which is a bigger concern than anything else.
This whole thing was trumped up unnecessarily from the start by desperate right wing news, much the way the left news sources keeping trumping up (heh) the Trump. They think they're breaking him down, but they're just giving him more free publicity.
If it comes down to Hillary and Trump we were *** before we ever cast a vote.
By Bloodrose 2015-09-01 13:27:34
Every time I make a rebuttal, I'll end it with Boxcar.
Here is my rebuttal to anything Nausi says:
Boxcar.
[+]
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-01 13:28:16
Seriously, at this point there is no way classified info was not sent through the insecure server.
They've already found several classified emails. It's not a matter of "if" at this point, it's a matter of how well she can talk her way out of it. She's already changed her story half a dozen times.
[+]
By Bloodrose 2015-09-01 13:29:20
All politicians have to define the word "Define" before they'll answer anything honestly.
Civil servants are like: I dun *** up, yo. Please forgive me.
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-09-01 13:29:51
Seriously, at this point there is no way classified info was not sent through the insecure server.
They've already found several classified emails. It's not a matter of "if" at this point, it's a matter of how well she can talk her way out of it. She's already changed her story half a dozen times.
Currently classified, but they weren't at the time. That's why people call it a fake scandal. It's a perfectly timed overreaction to what is essentially a dishonest person being legally dishonest.
By Ramyrez 2015-09-01 13:30:50
Seriously, at this point there is no way classified info was not sent through the insecure server.
I think it's pretty clear at this point that there's no such thing as a "secure server".
There's just "servers someone doesn't want to hack into badly enough to do it yet".
And that's not a defense of anyone.
it's merely a comment on society and technology.
Edit: Yes, I'm aware there's a slight contradiction between this and another post I made on this page, but in the end it doesn't matter. Security is an illusion. It always has been. To the extent it can be expected Hilldawg *** up, but the *** wasn't in terms of security, it was in knowing how to play her ***close to the vest.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-01 13:32:16
Seriously, at this point there is no way classified info was not sent through the insecure server.
They've already found several classified emails. It's not a matter of "if" at this point, it's a matter of how well she can talk her way out of it. She's already changed her story half a dozen times.
Currently classified, but they weren't at the time. That's why people call it a fake scandal. It's a perfectly timed overreaction to what is essentially a dishonest person being legally dishonest.
Wrong.
Quote: In a letter to members of Congress on Thursday, the inspector general of the intelligence community concluded that Mrs. Clinton’s email contains material from the intelligence community that should have been considered “secret”—the second-highest level of classification—at the time it was sent. A copy of the letter to Congress was provided to The Wall Street Journal by a spokeswoman for the inspector general. Quote: The four emails in question “were classified when they were sent and are classified now,” said Andrea Williams, a spokeswoman for the inspector general.
[+]
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-09-01 13:33:42
So, it's illegal to receive information that is improperly classified? You understand the difference, right?
By Ramyrez 2015-09-01 13:35:00
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »Neighborhood watch? 
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-01 13:38:12
So, it's illegal to receive information that is improperly classified? You understand the difference, right?
They haven't all been reviewed yet. But when the person who is being investigated is lying, revising her story, and destroying evidence, it is absolutely a scandal by the very definition of the word (if you disagree, look it up). It speaks volumes about her character as a presidential candidate, far more than a choice of hairpiece.
[+]
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-01 13:38:22
Seriously, at this point there is no way classified info was not sent through the insecure server.
They've already found several classified emails. It's not a matter of "if" at this point, it's a matter of how well she can talk her way out of it. She's already changed her story half a dozen times.
Well the lack of condemnation is a little brow raising as well. I mean is anyone gonna stand up and call for an indictment or are they all too afraid of the "war on women"?
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-09-01 13:38:22
Not even his final form:
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-01 13:41:54
So, it's illegal to receive information that is improperly classified? You understand the difference, right?
if you receive information that is improperly classified and expose it to risk by receiving it on an unsecured network, THATS ILLEGAL TOO.
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-09-01 13:43:31
So, it's illegal to receive information that is improperly classified? You understand the difference, right?
They haven't all been reviewed yet. But when the person who is being investigated is lying, revising her story, and destroying evidence, it is absolutely a scandal by the very definition of the word (if you disagree, look it up). It speaks volumes about her character as a presidential candidate, far more than a choice of hairpiece.
I guess what I'm trying to say, is that it's all conjecture. I've yet to see any proof that she actually violated any laws, yet you all speak as if it's a foregone conclusion. Yeah, she's a pretty shitty person and I wouldn't vote for her over a bag of potatoes, but it doesn't make her a criminal.
Ragnarok.Nausi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6709
By Ragnarok.Nausi 2015-09-01 13:44:19
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »So, it's illegal to receive information that is improperly classified? You understand the difference, right?
if you receive information that is improperly classified and expose it to risk by receiving it on an unsecured network, THATS ILLEGAL TOO.
I jaywalk like everyone else does. That is also illegal. Good work you're already in line with he media.
"Nothing to see here."
Do you even realize that you're carrying water?
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-01 13:45:06
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »So, it's illegal to receive information that is improperly classified? You understand the difference, right?
They haven't all been reviewed yet. But when the person who is being investigated is lying, revising her story, and destroying evidence, it is absolutely a scandal by the very definition of the word (if you disagree, look it up). It speaks volumes about her character as a presidential candidate, far more than a choice of hairpiece. 
Bill then received the highest approval rating during his administration during this time.
I'm more concerned with how someone handles classified information than how they handle interns.
[+]
By Ramyrez 2015-09-01 13:45:17
Yeah, she's a pretty shitty person and I wouldn't vote for her over a bag of potatoes, but it doesn't make her a criminal.
I'd vote for her over the potatoes any day.
Because here's the thing...if the potatoes get elected, the Secret Service is standing between me and this:
VIP
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2015-09-01 13:45:34
So, it's illegal to receive information that is improperly classified? You understand the difference, right?
if you receive information that is improperly classified and expose it to risk by receiving it on an unsecured network, THATS ILLEGAL TOO.
Her server was secured, it just wasn't a government owned server. If you knew more about network security, I'd be happy to have that discussion.
[+]
By Ramyrez 2015-09-01 13:45:59
Asura.Floppyseconds said: »So, it's illegal to receive information that is improperly classified? You understand the difference, right?
if you receive information that is improperly classified and expose it to risk by receiving it on an unsecured network, THATS ILLEGAL TOO.
I jaywalk like everyone else does. That is also illegal. Good work you're already in line with he media.
"Nothing to see here."
Do you even realize that you're carrying water?
Or you're being a tinfoil hat conspiracy nut and there actually is nothing to see here.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13622
By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-09-01 13:47:55
No, there is something to see here. Whether illegal or not, her behavior is the thing everyone who defends her seems to be ignoring. If she'd have just been honest and cooperative from day 1 this would have been over already.
[+]
Random Politics & Religion is for topics that aren't thread worthy on their own and do not have their own existing thread.
Rules and Guidelines
Forum Rules and P&R Section Guidelines still apply.
Satire is tolerated.
If your topic covers a story over 6 months old (Watergate, Benghazi, 2012 Election, etc.) post it here.
Discussions on racism, homophobia, transphobia, and the like are allowed, targeted insults based on these will not be tolerated.
Political debates get heated and are meant to be intense, if you take offense to being called or proven wrong, you don't belong here.
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen; if you prove you can't handle the criticism you bring upon yourself in this thread, you may be removed from it. You are responsible for what you post.
Along those lines, heat is fine, but sustained, clearly personal hostility is not okay. The personal attack rules still apply. Attack positions, not posters. Failure to adhere to this will result in your removal from the thread.
This thread is NOT the Flame Core.
These rules are subject to change and modification where and when needed.
Random Politics & Religion may be mained or demained depending on the activity within at a Moderator's discretion.
With that out of the way, let the debates begin!
/bow
|
|
