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Random Politics & Religion #00
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 09:04:27
His name is President Ebola now You know what's strange?
If this happened during the Bush administration, you know he would be getting the full blame for it (people still believe that Bush was the cause of Katrina).
And yet, nobody is pointing the finger towards Obama for this issue.
Bush didn't "cause" Katrina. It was a god damn storm.
Just like Obama didn't "cause" Ebola.
It's the response. And the Bush administration (obviously not just the man himself, as no president acts alone despite what some will say) responded pretty poorly to Katrina, as I recall.
*shrug*
All I'm saying is that I know that where I am, and the positions that I and my extended network of friends and family are in, I'm near positive that we'd be worse off had the alternatives taken power.
And I'm 100% positive that we'd be in better position still had Corbett not won the election in Pennsylvania following the gubenatorial abortion that was Ed Rendell. I will concede that Katrina was handled poorly.
But this Ebola issue is being handled poorly too. Where's the public outrage?
Oh wait, can't have one with Obama as president.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 09:06:29
I don't know that I'd say it's been an unprecedented "success", as there are still plenty of huge problems looming, but I can say anecdotally that a lot of people I know are in a better place than we were when he took office, though. Myself included.
Much like any politician, claiming success within an individually-defined set of criteria is key.
Most people would argue they were in a better position before 2008 than they are in today.
In terms of presidential legacies, that's a pretty awful one to leave.
Except that he didn't even get sworn in until '09...
Gee, who was president for eight years before that? If you are going to base an 8 year term over what happened the last 7 months of that term, then your are cherry picking arguments.
I will say that, for the 6 out of 8 years that Bush was president, life was grand and people were strongly accumulating wealth.
Can you say the same for Obama?
By Ramyrez 2014-10-03 09:07:16
I don't know that I'd say it's been an unprecedented "success", as there are still plenty of huge problems looming, but I can say anecdotally that a lot of people I know are in a better place than we were when he took office, though. Myself included.
Much like any politician, claiming success within an individually-defined set of criteria is key. That's not fair analysis.
When he first took office, the country was in the worst recession since the Great Depression.
3 years after the recession was "over" people were still feeling the effects of the recession, like it never ended.
Only now are we back to pre-recession way of life. Imagine the 6 years of potential growth that was missed out from this.
Even worse, we still have an over-inflated economy that will crash when QE stops. Add the student loan fiasco that will happen shortly afterwards and we are back to where we were when Obama came to office.
Do you honestly think that we are in a much better place now since Obama took office? All I see is that we are biding our time to the next recession and hoping that it wouldn't be as bad as the previous one.
Has it ever been any other way? The economy has peaks and valleys. It's always been thus. Until we completely overhaul the way our economy works -- which isn't going to happen, ever -- that's how it will always be.
I certainly don't think we'd be in a better position now, socially or economically, had Romney been elected in 12, and I think we'd be thoroughly *** had McCain/Twitwoman been elected in 08. We will never know. Unless it becomes possible to open a parallel universe where McCain won in '08 or Romney won in '12.
All we have to go by is what happened.
I can only speak to and vote for what I feel is best for myself, my family and friends.
I promise you that McCain and Romney were not going to be better for us.
And of all those people I think of when considering these factors, none of them are on welfare, and only one on disability because she's stat blind and hard of hearing to boot. Only a few are old enough that they collect social security. The vast majority are gainfully employed or unemployed by choice (stay-at-home mothers, etc.)
So don't go leaping to that conclusion.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 09:09:07
I don't know that I'd say it's been an unprecedented "success", as there are still plenty of huge problems looming, but I can say anecdotally that a lot of people I know are in a better place than we were when he took office, though. Myself included.
Much like any politician, claiming success within an individually-defined set of criteria is key. That's not fair analysis.
When he first took office, the country was in the worst recession since the Great Depression.
3 years after the recession was "over" people were still feeling the effects of the recession, like it never ended.
Only now are we back to pre-recession way of life. Imagine the 6 years of potential growth that was missed out from this.
Even worse, we still have an over-inflated economy that will crash when QE stops. Add the student loan fiasco that will happen shortly afterwards and we are back to where we were when Obama came to office.
Do you honestly think that we are in a much better place now since Obama took office? All I see is that we are biding our time to the next recession and hoping that it wouldn't be as bad as the previous one.
Has it ever been any other way? The economy has peaks and valleys. It's always been thus. Until we completely overhaul the way our economy works -- which isn't going to happen, ever -- that's how it will always be.
I certainly don't think we'd be in a better position now, socially or economically, had Romney been elected in 12, and I think we'd be thoroughly *** had McCain/Twitwoman been elected in 08. We will never know. Unless it becomes possible to open a parallel universe where McCain won in '08 or Romney won in '12.
All we have to go by is what happened.
I can only speak to and vote for what I feel is best for myself, my family and friends.
I promise you that McCain and Romney were not going to be better for us.
And of all those people I think of when considering these factors, none of them are on welfare, and only one on disability because she's stat blind and hard of hearing to boot. Only a few are old enough that they collect social security. The vast majority are gainfully employed or unemployed by choice (stay-at-home mothers, etc.)
So don't go leaping to that conclusion. Your opinion.
I don't jump on the "only Obama supporters are on welfare" hypetrain that some people tend to do (Alt being one of them).
I only attack his policies and how effective a leader is he, not his supporters.
By Ramyrez 2014-10-03 09:10:19
I don't know that I'd say it's been an unprecedented "success", as there are still plenty of huge problems looming, but I can say anecdotally that a lot of people I know are in a better place than we were when he took office, though. Myself included.
Much like any politician, claiming success within an individually-defined set of criteria is key.
Most people would argue they were in a better position before 2008 than they are in today.
In terms of presidential legacies, that's a pretty awful one to leave.
Except that he didn't even get sworn in until '09...
Gee, who was president for eight years before that? If you are going to base an 8 year term over what happened the last 7 months of that term, then your are cherry picking arguments.
I will say that, for the 6 out of 8 years that Bush was president, life was grand and people were strongly accumulating wealth.
Can you say the same for Obama?
The crash that happened was building for a decade prior. Clinton shoulders blame, as does Bush for maintaining many of those policies. Obama's been running a clean-up action since he took office.
None of them have been ideal presidents. It's just about the least-poor choice of a bad crop imo. And I really do think we've actually ended up with the best choice in each election since Reagan was in office.
Gotta go, training pow-wow, whee!
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 09:16:42
I don't know that I'd say it's been an unprecedented "success", as there are still plenty of huge problems looming, but I can say anecdotally that a lot of people I know are in a better place than we were when he took office, though. Myself included.
Much like any politician, claiming success within an individually-defined set of criteria is key.
Most people would argue they were in a better position before 2008 than they are in today.
In terms of presidential legacies, that's a pretty awful one to leave.
Except that he didn't even get sworn in until '09...
Gee, who was president for eight years before that? If you are going to base an 8 year term over what happened the last 7 months of that term, then your are cherry picking arguments.
I will say that, for the 6 out of 8 years that Bush was president, life was grand and people were strongly accumulating wealth.
Can you say the same for Obama?
The crash that happened was building for a decade prior. Clinton shoulders blame, as does Bush for maintaining many of those policies. Obama's been running a clean-up action since he took office.
None of them have been ideal presidents. It's just about the least-poor choice of a bad crop imo. And I really do think we've actually ended up with the best choice in each election since Reagan was in office.
Gotta go, training pow-wow, whee! Obama's "cleanup" was to take more power into the hands of the federal government, while shouldering the blame on other people (aka Bernanke). Plausible deniability is Obama's game, just like his term in the Senate (only voting "present" instead of on the issues, so he will not be liable for anything except what he chooses to be).
Good luck on training.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-10-03 09:24:12
[
I will concede that Katrina was handled poorly.
But this Ebola issue is being handled poorly too. Where's the public outrage?
Oh wait, can't have one with Obama as president.
Why would there be public outrage? Why give in to Nausi's fearmongering? There is a cure for it, both of those doctors that came back, they lived. That NBC reporter that has it, we are gonna save him too. It doesn't have a 50% mortality rate in this country, and its not going to.
That guy in Dallas, his family has been legally quarantined, they are tracing his steps back and finding out who he has had contact with and quarantining them. Its not an airborne virus, it doesn't just spread like wildfire. It only spreads through contact with bodily fluid.
Now, that hospital is going to have a lot to answer for, and it already is coming under a lot of scrutiny. But that has nothing to do with Obama.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 09:29:35
[
I will concede that Katrina was handled poorly.
But this Ebola issue is being handled poorly too. Where's the public outrage?
Oh wait, can't have one with Obama as president.
Why would there be public outrage? Why give in to Nausi's fearmongering? There is a cure for it, both of those doctors that came back, they lived. That NBC reporter that has it, we are gonna save him too. It doesn't have a 50% mortality rate in this country, and its not going to.
That guy in Dallas, his family has been legally quarantined, they are tracing his steps back and finding out who he has had contact with and quarantining them. Its not an airborne virus, it doesn't just spread like wildfire. It only spreads through contact with bodily fluid.
Now, that hospital is going to have a lot to answer for, and it already is coming under a lot of scrutiny. But that has nothing to do with Obama. This is an issue that affects national health if not contained.
This clearly falls under the definition of federal assistance, and yet, the only thing being done is being done locally.
I'm sure that if this virus happens to pop up near you (and for Texans, 300 miles is nearby), you would demand the same thing.
By Ramyrez 2014-10-03 09:45:59
[
I will concede that Katrina was handled poorly.
But this Ebola issue is being handled poorly too. Where's the public outrage?
Oh wait, can't have one with Obama as president.
Why would there be public outrage? Why give in to Nausi's fearmongering? There is a cure for it, both of those doctors that came back, they lived. That NBC reporter that has it, we are gonna save him too. It doesn't have a 50% mortality rate in this country, and its not going to.
That guy in Dallas, his family has been legally quarantined, they are tracing his steps back and finding out who he has had contact with and quarantining them. Its not an airborne virus, it doesn't just spread like wildfire. It only spreads through contact with bodily fluid.
Now, that hospital is going to have a lot to answer for, and it already is coming under a lot of scrutiny. But that has nothing to do with Obama. This is an issue that affects national health if not contained.
This clearly falls under the definition of federal assistance, and yet, the only thing being done is being done locally.
I'm sure that if this virus happens to pop up near you (and for Texans, 300 miles is nearby), you would demand the same thing.
I'm sure the CDC is involved. That is federal involvement in matters of disease control.
And training was every bit as mind-numbing as expected.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-10-03 09:58:44
This is an issue that affects national health if not contained.
This clearly falls under the definition of federal assistance, and yet, the only thing being done is being done locally.
I'm sure that if this virus happens to pop up near you (and for Texans, 300 miles is nearby), you would demand the same thing. The CDC is involved.
However, the nephew of the man in hospital claims he had to call the CDC because the hospital had sent the uncle home. If that is true that is a serious problem. If it is not then the nephew needs to stfu.
As far as I know each state still has to ask for the federal government to come in and handle all things. That is one of the reasons Katrina was handled badly. If that is not the case please point me towards that policy.
Yes, the local health department has ...I wouldn't say mishandled... yet, but I've not been impressed with their response so far.
[+]
By volkom 2014-10-03 10:03:04
[
I will concede that Katrina was handled poorly.
But this Ebola issue is being handled poorly too. Where's the public outrage?
Oh wait, can't have one with Obama as president.
Why would there be public outrage? Why give in to Nausi's fearmongering? There is a cure for it, both of those doctors that came back, they lived. That NBC reporter that has it, we are gonna save him too. It doesn't have a 50% mortality rate in this country, and its not going to.
That guy in Dallas, his family has been legally quarantined, they are tracing his steps back and finding out who he has had contact with and quarantining them. Its not an airborne virus, it doesn't just spread like wildfire. It only spreads through contact with bodily fluid.
Now, that hospital is going to have a lot to answer for, and it already is coming under a lot of scrutiny. But that has nothing to do with Obama. This is an issue that affects national health if not contained.
This clearly falls under the definition of federal assistance, and yet, the only thing being done is being done locally.
I'm sure that if this virus happens to pop up near you (and for Texans, 300 miles is nearby), you would demand the same thing.
Don't forget national security too. /tinfoil hat~ Can probably make good use of this for bio terrorism. Just get a few contaminated samples of the stuff, go to the airport and spread the stuff in a vapor form or contaminate a water/food supply somewhere
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 10:10:36
This is an issue that affects national health if not contained.
This clearly falls under the definition of federal assistance, and yet, the only thing being done is being done locally.
I'm sure that if this virus happens to pop up near you (and for Texans, 300 miles is nearby), you would demand the same thing. The CDC is involved.
However, the nephew of the man in hospital claims he had to call the CDC because the hospital had sent the uncle home. If that is true that is a serious problem. If it is not then the nephew needs to stfu.
As far as I know each state still has to ask for the federal government to come in and handle all things. That is one of the reasons Katrina was handled badly. If that is not the case please point me towards that policy.
Yes, the local health department has ...I wouldn't say mishandled... yet, but I've not been impressed with their response so far. Minimum assistance is not involvement.
As for Texas officially asking for help, I don't see anything that states that Texas did. So I'll concede that CDC's involvement is more likely due to Texas not asking for help.
I'll keep quiet on CDC's involvement for now.
As for the nephew bit, several sources did state that.
Source #1
Source #2
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-10-03 10:13:23
Oh yeah the economy under Obama has been so good.
That's why I had to find employment overseas for a decent salary and still have to go that route.
I can't imagine trying to live and work in this economy and still have to pay off any student loan debts.
Working 2-3 shitty jobs seems like so much fun.
Wages have been stagnant this whole time while prices for food and basic necessities rise.
Pass.
 Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 10:14:24
I don't know that I'd say it's been an unprecedented "success", as there are still plenty of huge problems looming, but I can say anecdotally that a lot of people I know are in a better place than we were when he took office, though. Myself included.
Much like any politician, claiming success within an individually-defined set of criteria is key.
Most people would argue they were in a better position before 2008 than they are in today.
In terms of presidential legacies, that's a pretty awful one to leave.
Except that he didn't even get sworn in until '09...
Gee, who was president for eight years before that? Well 2009 then, that's essentially what I meant.
By Ramyrez 2014-10-03 10:17:39
I don't know that I'd say it's been an unprecedented "success", as there are still plenty of huge problems looming, but I can say anecdotally that a lot of people I know are in a better place than we were when he took office, though. Myself included.
Much like any politician, claiming success within an individually-defined set of criteria is key.
Most people would argue they were in a better position before 2008 than they are in today.
In terms of presidential legacies, that's a pretty awful one to leave.
Except that he didn't even get sworn in until '09...
Gee, who was president for eight years before that? Well 2009 then, that's essentially what I meant.
See my subsequent post regarding the building up of the issue.
I'm not really a blind defender of Obama. The better of two poor choices is still a poor choice; there hasn't been a middle-class worthy president since long before most of us here were born. I'm just saying it has to be acknowledged that the seeds for the recession were planted and cultivated long before Obama was in office; they simply began to bear fruit long about the end of Bush's reign.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 10:19:50
I don't know that I'd say it's been an unprecedented "success", as there are still plenty of huge problems looming, but I can say anecdotally that a lot of people I know are in a better place than we were when he took office, though. Myself included.
Much like any politician, claiming success within an individually-defined set of criteria is key.
Most people would argue they were in a better position before 2008 than they are in today.
In terms of presidential legacies, that's a pretty awful one to leave.
Except that he didn't even get sworn in until '09...
Gee, who was president for eight years before that? Well 2009 then, that's essentially what I meant.
See my subsequent post regarding the building up of the issue.
I'm not really a blind defender of Obama. The better of two poor choices is still a poor choice. I'm just saying it has to be acknowledged that the seeds for the recession were planted and cultivated long before Obama was in office; they simply began to bear fruit long about the end of Bush's reign. Just asking, but do you understand what happened with mortgage-backed securities and how this is being regarded as the "perfect storm" of financial and legal issues?
Heck, do you know all of the players who are to blame for this?
(I'll give you a hint, there are 3 groups of people you can classify as having equal blame)
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 10:21:02
[
I will concede that Katrina was handled poorly.
But this Ebola issue is being handled poorly too. Where's the public outrage?
Oh wait, can't have one with Obama as president.
Why would there be public outrage? Why give in to Nausi's fearmongering? There is a cure for it, both of those doctors that came back, they lived. That NBC reporter that has it, we are gonna save him too. It doesn't have a 50% mortality rate in this country, and its not going to.
That guy in Dallas, his family has been legally quarantined, they are tracing his steps back and finding out who he has had contact with and quarantining them. Its not an airborne virus, it doesn't just spread like wildfire. It only spreads through contact with bodily fluid.
Now, that hospital is going to have a lot to answer for, and it already is coming under a lot of scrutiny. But that has nothing to do with Obama. There's a cure now? lolwut? More like an experimental treatment which isn't available for either you or me.
No ***if you're the focus on the entire medical sector in the US you'll make it out of this. That might work for the first 1000 people who get it, but if this thing goes to an epidemic proportion and you become one of a million that has it, you're odds at being the sharp focus of one of the best medical systems in the world gets knocked down pretty far.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-10-03 10:23:34
There's no cure for Ebola, lol.
By Ramyrez 2014-10-03 10:24:18
I don't know that I'd say it's been an unprecedented "success", as there are still plenty of huge problems looming, but I can say anecdotally that a lot of people I know are in a better place than we were when he took office, though. Myself included.
Much like any politician, claiming success within an individually-defined set of criteria is key.
Most people would argue they were in a better position before 2008 than they are in today.
In terms of presidential legacies, that's a pretty awful one to leave.
Except that he didn't even get sworn in until '09...
Gee, who was president for eight years before that? Well 2009 then, that's essentially what I meant.
See my subsequent post regarding the building up of the issue.
I'm not really a blind defender of Obama. The better of two poor choices is still a poor choice. I'm just saying it has to be acknowledged that the seeds for the recession were planted and cultivated long before Obama was in office; they simply began to bear fruit long about the end of Bush's reign. Just asking, but do you understand what happened with mortgage-backed securities and how this is being regarded as the "perfect storm" of financial and legal issues?
Heck, do you know all of the players who are to blame for this?
(I'll give you a hint, there are 3 groups of people you can classify as having equal blame)
The government under the Clinton administration, and subsequently supported by the Bush administration, pushed for home loans for pretty much everyone, including people who were bad risks. Banks gave them and then subsequently bought/sold/traded the packaged debts. Long story short, it didn't go very well in the end when everyone and their mother defaulted and was foreclosed and we saw the fallout.
As for the blame, the aforementioned administrations and banks, and the people who took loans they couldn't handle. While the banks were pressured to give the loans, the way they subsequently handled those loans was quite problematic.
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2014-10-03 10:24:38
There isn't a real proven cure for it yet, just cases of people with immune systems strong enough to fight off the virus.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-03 10:28:29
I don't know that I'd say it's been an unprecedented "success", as there are still plenty of huge problems looming, but I can say anecdotally that a lot of people I know are in a better place than we were when he took office, though. Myself included.
Much like any politician, claiming success within an individually-defined set of criteria is key.
Most people would argue they were in a better position before 2008 than they are in today.
In terms of presidential legacies, that's a pretty awful one to leave.
Except that he didn't even get sworn in until '09...
Gee, who was president for eight years before that? Well 2009 then, that's essentially what I meant.
See my subsequent post regarding the building up of the issue.
I'm not really a blind defender of Obama. The better of two poor choices is still a poor choice. I'm just saying it has to be acknowledged that the seeds for the recession were planted and cultivated long before Obama was in office; they simply began to bear fruit long about the end of Bush's reign. Just asking, but do you understand what happened with mortgage-backed securities and how this is being regarded as the "perfect storm" of financial and legal issues?
Heck, do you know all of the players who are to blame for this?
(I'll give you a hint, there are 3 groups of people you can classify as having equal blame)
The government under the Clinton administration, and subsequently supported by the Bush administration, pushed for home loans for pretty much everyone, including people who were bad risks. Banks gave them and then subsequently bought/sold/traded the packaged debts. Long story short, it didn't go very well in the end when everyone and their mother defaulted and was foreclosed and we saw the fallout.
As for the blame, the aforementioned administrations and banks, and the people who took loans they couldn't handle. While the banks were pressured to give the loans, the way they subsequently handled those loans was quite problematic. Ok, you understand the issues.
How about the catalyst? This was going on for years before the ***hit the fan. Do you know what the straw that broke the camel's back was? (To use a generally understandable term)
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-10-03 10:30:23
 Siren.Mosin
By Siren.Mosin 2014-10-03 10:40:26
By Ramyrez 2014-10-03 10:41:36
The value of mortgages and properties were set far above their actual values, people defaulted; come 2006-2008 investment bundles of these mortages that had been speculated endlessly all of a sudden were crashing and...well, here we are.
My understanding of the financial aspects is admittedly a bit looser than the overarching timeline and issues, clouded further by the fact that my parents actually managed to lose their house in the same timeframe due to unrelated circumstances, my life was kind of a hot mess back then.
[+]
Ragnarok.Nausi
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By Ragnarok.Nausi 2014-10-03 15:35:22
Government policies making capital easily available to people who couldn't otherwise afford to buy homes, artificially inflated the prices of homes. Once the balloon was inflated past a certain point, it became very difficult to absorb sudden spiked costs in everyday necessities (fuel/gas in particular). People began to default on their mortgages, bundled pyramid investments stopped yielding expected results and it all came crashing down.
[+]
Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2014-10-03 15:53:32
US judge unseals Guantanamo Bay force-feeding tapes
BBC said: A US judge has ordered the government to release videotapes depicting a Guantanamo Bay prisoner being force-fed while on hunger strike.
US District Court Judge Gladys Kessler granted a request from a number of media organisations for their release.
The videos show Syrian prisoner Abu Wa'el Dhiab being forcibly removed from his cell and fed.
But the tapes will remain sealed until some information, including faces and voices, has been redacted.
By Blazed1979 2014-10-04 07:08:34
As South Sudan implodes, Newsweek offers an outstanding article depicting how the west often makes situations much worse with their propaganda.
Great read.
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/10/10/george-clooney-south-sudan-how-worlds-newest-nation-imploded-274547.html
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-10-04 12:23:24
According to Joe Biden, China is now apart of North America.
Quote: On energy, North America is literally -- not figuratively -- the epicenter of energy in the world today. There are more rigs, gas and oil rigs in the United States pumping today than every other nation in the world combined. Combined. North America will account -- meaning Mexico, China and Canada -- for two-thirds of the growth of global energy supply over the next 20 years. By 2018, the United States will be a net exporter of natural gas, and most projections show North America will be totally energy independent by 2020, and the United States shortly thereafter.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2014-10-04 13:09:13
Go figure, this is coming from a president who believes that there are 57 states of America.
YouTube Video Placeholder
I guess China is the newest state.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-10-04 13:13:26
Go figure, this is coming from a president who believes that there are 57 states of America.
YouTube Video Placeholder
I guess China is the newest state. 57 + he didn't get to visit Alaska and Hawaii yet, so that's 59, lol.
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