Job Balance?

I do Ambuscade VD on my RNG with my CP cape locked in so I can get closer to mastering it, meleeing with Last Stand (I don't have a bow on RNG) as my WS of choice and I can lead the meters there. This months ambuscade is far from a decent gauge of job viability.

That said, I'm interested in tossing my Adhemar+1 onto a MNK and seeing how I can do. Step 1 to accomplishing this would be understanding how Martial Arts operates when it comes to reaching the delay cap...

So it operates similar to normal delay but with a 480 Base. The +Delay on a weapon directly adds to that delay. So Spharai's Delay would be 480+86 or 566 between rounds.

Martial arts directly reduces the delay by X amount. So Martial Arts + 10 will take off 10 from the delay making that 566 into 556.

The delay caps at 80% with haste and Martial arts and apparently M-arts still effects TP after that fact like DW.

What I am not sure is that if the 80% cap is determined by the 480 base or the overall delay with the weapon.

So I'm not sure if Spharai caps at 96 or 113.2 Delay.

Assuming a Master MNK then they would be at 99 Delay with capped haste and a Spharai

It's determined by the overall delay with the weapon.

Buff mnk... end of thread...

So basically Martial arts is direct -delay instead of DW's -% delay and calculated similarly.

Edit: And looking at the Martials Arts trait on BGwiki it has MNK at 280 base from Martial Arts. So say I use a +54 delay h2h that puts me at 334/480, so a 30.5% reduction?

So at haste cap the 100 and 1200 gifts for MNK are just hurting their TP gain while having no other benefits?

Yes. That's the way I understand it anyway. The counter gifts TOTALLY make up for it tho! ._.

Thats terrible. That is 1200 JP to get -10 Delay which equates to 1/6 of a second shaved off of their attack rounds when not haste capped.

BLU gets 2 Traits tiers, Nin gets Utsu: San and 5% WSD, BLM gets T6 spells and death, even DRG gets what 15% DA?


5% Counter attack damage is the 550? WTF is that garbage.


You want to fix MNK? Fix their flipping Gifts so they are actually worth a damn. Jesus, I never realized how pathetic that is.

Well, it's fine for the overall picture of monk. It just doesn't work for for the meta game function of "everyone bring max DPS" since that'll skip over counters. Similar to how THF has a bunch of TH gifts, those don't mean ***when you're trying to kill WoC.

TH is 100x more useful than counter for the overall picture of game though...so that's something.

TH may be more useful than Counter, but the TH gifts are less useful than the Counter gifts. They merely raise the maximum TH cap, which you will never reach anyways because the mob is dead long before you do that.

This hard. TH gifts come in two functions: Max cap (so TH14 at master) and TH upgrade proc rate, which doesn't do a *** thing. It is common to see a TH9 upgrade, but never expect any more than that, which makes the 4 gifts focused on TH to essentially be useless. I've never personally seen TH12 (even in my Behemoth farming days) so LOL @ TH14.

The TH gifts will never be detrimental to THF though, yea they could honestly be better. but the Martial arts gifts lower their TP generated per hit.

The same could be said about DNCs 550 but their 100 and 1200 do add something.


You could then take a look at the other gifts they get.

Their special gifts are "Subtle Blow + 10" and "+10% Counter rate".

Absolutely pathetic.

My friend and I hit behemoth for 23 minutes in nothing but max TH sets minimizing damage, and we finally saw it. We were also spamming feint and SA and TA to increase proc rate chances. So ya, takes 2 thf 23 minutes.

Personally I like counter, one friend said his autos can do 5k when his impetus is ramped up so if you're tanking having more counters can't be a bad thing not sure why we're even comparing them tbh. It'd definitely be cooler if they got TP for doing it too, and ya you have to be tanking, but it still adds both to safety and dps at the same time so. As for higher martialarts/dw hurt tp gain, sure but by very little if you look up the equations and it actually still helps you when you're not haste capped.

THF also has a DW gift, but thankfully it just makes it easier to hit cap since THF isn't over the cap in any way.

Yea, DNCs gift brings them to 35 which is basically cap at magic haste + gear haste but because they have Haste Samba it is pointless and even hurts them in situations they can maintain Samba, they can always switch to drain at that point though.

Strange that you two say that, cuz when I fight Plouton, I consistently get TH to 11-13 range, and I don't have to draw the fight out to do so.

This reminds me of one of the earlier days in Vagary we brought in a THF, Plouton popped, leader wanted THF to tag for TH. THF ran in and got one shot so Plouton depopped. He never ilvl'd his TH gear...

What gear are you using? I know that the higher your base TH rate is, the easier it is to get procs, although I don't know if this extends beyond the 8 base rate max.

For TH gear, relic hands 119 and Herc legs with TH+2. I suppose with Ionis I don't need to use the legs, but perhaps it's possible that the extra TH from Ionis is helping my rate?

I don't know. I am not sure if overcapping the base rate increases procs, would be interesting to see some testing.

It would depend on how the Ionis buff works. I believe the Escha blessing actually raises the cap to TH9 on first attack. If Ionis is the same that'd make it so you're effectively able to melee at TH9, so reaching TH11 shouldn't be difficult if you're maining gear, that's only 2 procs and 1 proc is almost certain.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/27974-TH-Procing?p=377001#post377001

I think this suggests that excess TH8+ gear does increase your TH+ proc rate despite your base rate being capped at 8. Otherwise there would be no reason to have Treasure Hunter on as much gear as they have.

We got to TH 11 pretty quick, 13-14 took so long though. And we full timed TH 8 because we knew about that post snaps linked. I was also just wearing as much TH as I could find and was over cap. We could've just been unlucky but after spending 23 minutes on it, wasn't a test either of us really wanted to repeat. We minimized multi hit and only single wielded too as only the first hit of a round can increase TH. So this is pretty much optimal conditions and it still took forever.

need to reduce sata timer by like 15-20 seconds.