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Why is it so difficult to criticize Islam without angrying it deeply?
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By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 19:06:21
too many ppl to reply too , only replying to seriuos ppl...
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:07:44
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: too many ppl to reply too , only replying to seriuos ppl... Wait, who are you replying to now?
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:07:46
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: soo you are saying that HIJAB comes from Islamic extremists ? no?
then why mention it here?
lolwut
Husband: "Hey honey, you wanna go to the coffee shop today?"
Wife: "What?! You saying you hate tea? You got a problem with drinking tea???" *divorce papers*
I don't remember anyone saying anything about hijab wearing people were terrorists, buddy.
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By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 19:07:56
Slipispsycho LOL!
Flionheart I never heard of somthing call Burqini or w/e
so both of you stip out of it.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 19:08:01
I'm serious guys Burqini!
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-01 19:08:03
I am being seriuos ppl.. GTFO.
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:09:15
Trebold said: Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: soo you are saying that HIJAB comes from Islamic extremists ? no?
then why mention it here?
lolwut
Husband: "Hey honey, you wanna go to the coffee shop today?"
Wife: "What?! You saying you hate tea? You got a problem with drinking tea???" *divorce papers*
Husband shoots wife
I don't remember anyone saying anything about hijab wearing people were terrorists, buddy. Added for clarity lol
[+]
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 19:09:25
This is genious
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By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 19:10:31
see...
this is the type of ppl I'm talking about lol
@Flionheart thanks for showing my point of view
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-01 19:10:42
Leave it to them to take away all the good parts of a girl wearing a bikini..
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:10:54
Shiva.Flionheart said:
This is genious Wait, I thought they were supposed to completely cover their face.
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-01 19:11:08
So did I
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By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 19:11:13
here comes the other guy lol
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 19:12:19
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: see...
this is the type of ppl I'm talking about lol
@Flionheart thanks for showing my point ov view
Oh no you misunderstand me.
This item the "Burquini" is absolutely genius, I really admire the people who came up with it.
It's got a catchy name, it has a huge use, and it targets a huge consumer base.
As someone who has been learning about business studies for a long time, this item is simply outstanding.
I wish I'd thought of it, it really is genius.
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:12:37
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: see...
this is the type of ppl I'm talking about lol
@Flionheart thanks for showing my point of view Why not respond to my accusation about your religion?
I mean, if my infidel thinking is completely wrong, why aren't you saying so?
Or is it that I'm right about this? >.>
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:12:50
Asura.Korpg said: Shiva.Flionheart said:
This is genious Wait, I thought they were supposed to completely cover their face.
How improper. Also, they cut out the kid in the back who was fapping to them showing their feet.
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 19:13:44
I'm not racist T_T
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:14:02
I'm not either
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-05-01 19:15:11
I'm racist... if you consider idiots as a race of their own.
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By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 19:15:22
sorry Korpg being busy with those 2 ppl trying to let them stfu since they had nothing to say other then trying to be "look I'm the funny guy"
what do you want to know ?
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-01 19:16:08
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: sorry Korpg being busy with those 2 ppl trying to let them stfu since they had nothing to say other then trying to be "look I'm the funny guy"
what do you want to know ?
I wasn't trying to say I'm a funny guy, I just really admire the person who came up with "Burquini".
Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2010-05-01 19:16:16
Asura.Korpg said: I'm not attacking Islam's practices except one.
They are constantly afraid of new ideas. So, instead of learning from them, they run away. When they can't run away, they destroy the idea.
Case in point: There is a passage in the Qur'an that states that infidels must be killed.
Now, you ask, what is an infidel? Its people who don't believe what you believe. So, basically the Qur'an is stating that non-believers must be killed.
And you still state that Islam is a peaceful religion???
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By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 19:17:54
Qur'an doesnt say that infidels must be killed....
Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2010-05-01 19:18:05
Only read the title of this thread.
*** islam.
Phoenix.Kojo
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-01 19:18:16
Asura.Korpg said: Shiva.Flionheart said:  This is genious Wait, I thought they were supposed to completely cover their face.
I think that's traditional in some areas, in others IIRC, it has become more lenient to women being able to show their faces. And by IIRC, I mean "If I'm wrong, it isn't my fault."
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:18:28
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: sorry Korpg being busy with those 2 ppl trying to let them stfu since they had nothing to say other then trying to be "look I'm the funny guy"
vs. "look I'm the narc who whines about closing threads when topics don't swing my way"
I use the word 'narc', because if a free-forum topic like this were to exist in an Islamic state, it would be turned over to the authorities for legal action. >.>
By Trebold 2010-05-01 19:19:27
Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: Qur'an doesnt say that infidels must be killed....
Surah 9:5 would like to have a word with you...
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By Ragnarok.Virusheartt 2010-05-01 19:19:32
will to be honst I dont blame u for knowing nothing to a few about islam since all what you guys saw from us was ppl who kill themselives under the name of islam other then what the goverments says about islam in public
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By Asura.Balufalu 2010-05-01 19:20:06
I kinda agree with Virusheartt...
While this is stashed in the "everything" forum, I think the topic itself is kinda too sensitive to be discussed openly. Now, some people are gonna be "Well why? Are you just another person that can't accept anothers' point of view?"
No, I can very much accept anothers' point of view. There's too much generalization, especially with the opening post, along with a lack of understanding or explanation on shariah law.
Slip made a good point of saying "Well they're making islamic Extremists look bad", but there's hardly been a mention of extremists, only those who have a grain of common sense could see that was the case, where a lot of others would jump to conclusions.
I'm a fan of conversations like this, but when they base from the ramblings of some moron that has nothing better to do than find a controversial topic that they know will ruffle some feathers, add in their boneheaded-ness and adding in sly comments that "Religion is mundane" and other sentances that revolve around "Well I think this is stupid, so you must be stupid or living in the dark ages to still follow that crap" then you have a shitstorm in the making.
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By Phoenix.Kojo 2010-05-01 19:21:06
Trebold said: Ragnarok.Virusheartt said: sorry Korpg being busy with those 2 ppl trying to let them stfu since they had nothing to say other then trying to be "look I'm the funny guy" vs. "look I'm the narc who whines about closing threads when topics don't swing my way" I use the word 'narc', because if a free-forum topic like this were to exist in an Islamic state, it would be turned over to the authorities for legal action. >.>
Breakin' the law! Breakin' the law!
I think I figured out how it is possible that the large majority of people from the Muslim world would be so profoundly offended when their Prophet is criticized or made fun of. I mean, to them, it could very well look obvious, yet it seems they do not really understand why either. A lot of them just accept that someone would be killed for depicting the prophet Mohamed, even though we ask them why, in a way that we feel cannot be argued with. How is it possible that someone would be hated for openly making fun of something as mundane as religion, we ask? I think I can reasonably explain why they would accept the idea, believe it or not. I want to know what is to be done if we're going to help these people stop feeling so persecuted and if we’re going to finally gain the right to criticize Islam, as it should be, without threatening the people in it. The answer, I think, lies in our perceptions of what religion is versus where it should stand in relations to ethnicity. Help me out.
First, it is difficult to argue against the idea that Islam, to this day, is majorly against the advancement of secular culture. It is associated so directly to what I would refer, for lack of a better word, Arabian culture, that criticizing a religion tied so closely with it, appears (at least from my personal experience) to insult them, as people. Another factor to consider is how Muslims, despite their divisions, have the strength in numbers to lead us into being cautious about criticizing Islamic beliefs, even if it shouldn’t be so. Any critic, whether it is well intentioned or backed with incredibly solid and logical arguments, seems to backfire when it is targeted at Islam. More than often, it seems to be giving more reasons to feel justified, leading Islamic countries to cocoon themselves from modern secular culture. Unlike other ethnicities that are also extremely tied to their religion; the Jews, for example, the fact that they’re over a billion, somewhat gives them the mental ability to feel universally justified. It’s as if any strong criticism of Islam was a threat to their identity, integrity and intelligence, even when it’s not...
In a secular view, insulting religion doesn't necessarily equate to racial discrimination, and the fact that our western culture systematically ignores this, is the key point that prevents the western world from understanding why Muslims would be so offended. I have come to realize that a lot of Muslims try to say it, but it seems they do not understand what I am writing here, at least not enough to put it into the proper words that would make us understand. My goal is to help us both come to understand, through careful yet fortunate observations which I feel have led me to grasp some of this intricate psychology.
Let’s think for a second about this analogy: Let’s compare some white guy shouting racist comments towards blacks to your average non-Christian openly criticizing Christianity. Which is the worst, in the eyes of the average American, or European? Racism, isn’t it? Racism is undoubtedly the worst of those two things, at least according to our modern secular values. This is not to say that racism has been eradicated from the Western world, far from it. But even for the most racist among us in North America, it is extremely discouraged to make a racist statement publicly. It is not viewed as acceptable at all.
Have you ever seen a single Arabic person and expect him not to be a Muslim? It's as if their religion has so much grasp that it's nearly impossible for an Arabic person to not be a Muslim. But why doesn’t anyone seem to question this fact? Isn’t it fishy, considering that religion should be a choice? In fact, Muslims, in Muslim countries, are taught, from childhood, that the punishment for apostasy is death. The indoctrination is done to them so early in their life, and in such a strong and unquestionable way, that it achieves terrific results; it is almost irreversible. To them this is a good thing; to us, it’s just wrong.
In my opinion, the fact that Islam, as a religion, has been able to keep such a strong grasp, to this day, on the lives of the almost entirety of Arabic cultures is leading the Islamic world to a dangerous path. We all know that not only religion can be used to control masses, ii can also be a dangerous weapon. In America, some will argue, television is used for mass propaganda and it is difficult for the majority to avoid being brainwashed by many ideas that they would otherwise have never acquired as individuals. However, an average occidental still gets to make SOME choices about what morality should be; they chose whether they’ll be for or against abortion, whether they’ll be against slavery or not, whether they’ll vote for a black man or not.
It is possible to speak with a Muslim about what we dislike in Islam, without him getting angry. I have experienced it myself. It is difficult, however. Even as I was able to converse, I would feel the incredible pain that questioning one’s own identity can inflict on an indoctrinated individual. As we cannot tolerate being racially discriminated, they cannot tolerate negative criticism of Islam; they view is as their culture.
It may be sad to say, for most of us who wish for world peace, but secularism is not going to happen anytime soon in the Arab world. It could never be forced on Muslims. It is completely against their conception of what a religion should be and what place it should have in their life. Through what I have just explained, we can even understand the bottomless frustration of Muslims against non-Muslims when faced with debates like whether or not we should be banning the Burka in public spaces. The same issue arises: to us, it’s common sense and required for secularism, to them it’s a slap in the face, not as a Muslim but as an Arab. To us, it's freedom of speech; to them, it's against it. It is an insult to their culture, just as we would react to someone trying to deny our right to have a cultural background, just as we would react to a Muslim telling a White woman that wearing g-strings is degrading and wrong.
How can we possibly achieve a secular society, with Muslims living in it, if we do not agree on whether it’s okay to force someone to act secularly? Aren’t we stuck with the problem of having many kids arguing about who gets to play with the ball, while one of the kids sits on the ball, arguing that it should not be played with in the first place? How flexible can secularism be, without ending up betraying itself?
Can we find a temporary solution? I would like your opinion.
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