Blue Mage To Me Is

Dancer:

I love when threads like this are still alive.

This made my day.

I don't understand how we make anyone look bad. Our SA cannonballs can reach triple that of SA gekko, and at a 1m recast instead of the 3 for meditate blu/thf is a much more efficient dd than samurai for hnm. Also fantatic for znm due to varying situations and different types of heavy damage being ideal, such as blunt with armed gears and the fact that cannonball is faster to cast, longer range and more powerful than a ranged attack makes blu the ideal dd for kite fights. You may be arguing that I'm focusing on only 1 aspect of the job, but that is what everyone does with Sam, smn and rng anyways. The difference is we can be useful in other ways while outdamaging others in tricky situations, and we have a unique load of survivability tools if we take hate. Blu may be a jack of all trades but that doesn't mean it doesn't have situations where it is the best option.

What does meditate recast have to do with it. Sams can tank HNMs if they pull the hate to do so, they should be on said mob full time.

Once I saw Temp mentioned my first thought was "Oh god, Draylo all over again." >.<;

My second thought was inb4 Thorny says RDM RDM (SMN) lol

Good SAMs don't sub THF, and an 800 gekko every ~18 seconds DESTROYS anything BLU can even hope to do. I still have yet to see a single specific situation where BLU is best, you're arguing nonsense..

Allow me to rephrase because I think I was misunderstood. For situations where SAM can't melee, they Meditate and run in to WS (Dark Ixion and Khimaira come to mind, strictly speaking about HNM). In cases like this, BLU is the better DD. I was not advocating for SAM/THF, I was just intending to compare SAM's max DMG to BLU's.

Assuming it's a mob that the SAM will be meleeing, using your figure of 800 dmg every 18 seconds, multiplied by 3 that would be 2400 damage in 54 seconds. with 6 seconds left over you won't get a weaponskill off, however for argument's sake lets say you get 1/3 of a Weaponskill off. 6s = 33% of 18s, so dividing 800 by 3 you get 266.66~. Add that to 2400 and you have 2666.66~ DMG or 2700 just to make it a bit easier.

Compare to SA Cannonball's DMG per minute with no chance at missing because of Sneak Attack:
Screenshot of Cannonball DMG
Screenshot of Cannonball DMG II

As you can see, on HNM BLU can deal out some pretty impressive and consistent damage, and because the recast on Cannonball is less than 30 seconds, BLU can still deal consistent damage while weakened.



However, I am willing to concede that the average-joe BLU will probably not have a Cannonball build good enough to meet this damage quota, however for those that do, they're a pretty powerful force to mess with (which is why mobs tend to go rawr and eat them).

You probably shouldn't have shown that Azure Lore was used in that screenshot. You wont hit that high of damage without it, so you just stepped on your own foot.

I still can't believe you people are arguing over this ***. Who really cares? If you're a linkshell leader and you don't let people come as jobs they want ever, you're a *** douchenozzle.

It's a discussion, not an argument. My intention is not to lie and tell people something about BLU that isn't true and say it's a reason the job is great. It's true that you most likely won't hit for that much without Azure Lore, it's still easy especially with Enchainment merited, to get respectable damage.

Yes it's a discussion, but you made a point about SAMs 2700 damage per hour and then compared it to BLU's damage per hour that can't miss. But your comparison is irrelevant since your BLU won't be dishing out that kind of damage every minute.

I understand what you're trying to say, and I agree because I love my cannonballs, but the way you went about it was wrong. That's what I'm pointing out.

Entirely off topic, but I just got my pagondas earring from VNMs. Now I just need an Ire Torque+1 and the 8 str belt and I'm in business.

I can name at least two shells off the top of my head that have SAM/NIN engaged fulltime on DI as tanks. Is ***worth it? Maybe, maybe not, more work for the DDs as they have to dodge TP moves, but it's there. idk about Khim, ***'s a waste of time without buyers anyway and I don't do camped HNM.

Also Aurilius is right, your argument is flawed.

I've only been doing hnm short time, but I'm allowed to melee both. I even go mnk/nin to khim and they let me do my thing.

I used to melee Dark Ixion all the time on SAM. You just have to avoid TP moves (same as the tanks), and stand outside of his kick range.

I still prefer doing cannonballs because I can transfer hate and get a random person killed, and then laugh about it. That, and I can eat/watch tv and still do damage without worrying about death.

Yes, I'm that lazy.

Head Butt is jesus, only thing I use blu for. Einherjar, Dynamis, etc. very useful. Frightful Roar is nice in some situations too.

lol this thread is still going lol shocked it got some how back on track. Yeah headbutt is very nice. I don't know if any one mentioned Blu are very good tanks too.

Blu can easily keep hate they have a lot of hate spells antic burst Jettatura ect.. they can self heal with magic fruit = to c4 or c5 depending on build but for only 72mp cocoon for a 50% def inc stone skin ect.... i can go on for days, if allowed Blu's can act as very good tanks.

there is a thread on here about blu tanking if you need more info.

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/?topic_id=6090

Depends on how far down the tiers you're willing to go before you stop saying very good. As non-engaged tanks go RDM/NIN and DRK/NIN are superior, but it floats around the same level as NIN/DRK. Beats PLD due to better CE generation when not engaged (no Atonement)... obviously it's a less desirable option if engaged tanks are viable.

RDM's Bind is a base 40 second recast, while BLU's are base 24 and 15 second recast, and -CAN OVERWRITE THEMSELVES-. Those facts alone takes a lot of danger out of the BLU/NIN Regurgitation/Blastbomb soloing. They can get 20%+ Fast Cast, 21-25% haste in gear, and 10% haste spell, -100% spell interrupt rate. Can have massive Defense, same -pdt as RDM, and stun. Oh, a gimp SS too I guess.

And no I wasn't blindly insulting you, that's just years of observation from being on the same server as the second biggest douche in FFXI. Hell it's a break down of just about every one of your troll posts too.

RDM RDM BLU for temp. The BLU can either be /NIN and keep his own damn self alive or can /THF and just zombie it. Either way, it can put out more damage than a SMN as long as your RDMs don't suck completely. Yeah I know, it requires some change from your normal strategy, it must suck completely then though right?

And no FFXI isn't hard, but not everyone knows game mechanics as well as you or me, not everyone has spellcast and other tools/apps, hell some people can't even *** spell/read/add right and still play this game. I accept anyone that tries to learn into my ls, regardless of their intelligence/experience/knowledge so my strategies are all about simplicity and shaving numbers off. So my ls takes 4-6 to JoFaith or Ix'DRG instead of 2-3, at least we don't *** lose it. It's also faster.

Nyzul can be all about luck and who you're with. Those two things pretty much matter more than anything.

BLU's Bind (Regurgitation) produces next to no hate. ALL of the enmity, bar 1CE from casting the spell is gone in approximately 10 seconds (looking at it from a tanking stand-point for this part, because Bind can be used to produce hate on RDM). RDM have more ways to stay alive while soloing and kiting such as Convert and Refresh, it takes us {Long time} to get our MP back. The damage from Regurgitation can feed mobs TP and the MP cost is much higher than that of RDM's Bind. BLU can get 10% in fast cast as /NIN by the job trait, and 16% in gear.



Furthermore, in response to the people responding to my post;

You can't argue the best way to do something is without BLU and then reply with a less conventional approach. Bringing up SAM tank we need to discuss SAM vs PLD tank. PLD wins, the difference us unlike BLU vs SAM DD, PLD wins by a long shot, where as with BLU and SAM there is some room for debate.

Also Tiger, your shell does everything wierd, they're bored with the game so they play around.

Unconventional means nothing. Over 90% of the population is at least 3 years behind the current metagame or anything even approaching it, so the most effective strategies are perceived as unconventional by those who don't employ them. Get your fallacies out of here if you're going to try and debate. If you're going to try and present an argument for BLU, as a BLU main I'd at least like to see it done well.

And yet, everyone is saying that BLU shouldn't DD when it's not the best. Well not only is there some evidence to challenge that but on the flip-side, but the people that are saying that shouldn't be turning around and using SAM tank as an argument when that is a perfect example of an unconventional job situation. PLD is a better tank than SAM, case closed.

Edit: Done well? You've totally contradicted yourself in every post.

I've never said that, I've merely acknowleged that there is no situation approaching metagame where it's the most efficient use of party slot.
To repeat Thorny's challenge: prove it.
PLD is a better tank by design but that does not always lend itself to maximum efficiency. Sometimes (actually quite often) it's more efficient to combine the roles of a sufficient tank and a DD. PLD is an ok DD thanks to Atonement but other jobs can handle that combination of roles more effectively.

There are a handful of situations that present themselves when tanking a single mob in FFXI:

1) The mob is too dangerous to engage. RDM is the optimal tank.
2) The mob is safe to DD tank but cannot be engaged fulltime, rendering it a poor strategy (Tiamat). DRK/NIN is a better tank than PLD.
3) The mob can be engaged fulltime but has potentially deadly TP moves. Given that SAM's PDT capabilities are similar to that of a non-DRing PLD and relying on shield procs is questionable strategy, SAM and PLD are on comparable footing here (in reality, advatage SAM due to Seigan/TE). SAM's superior DD capabilities make it the better use of the party/alliance slot. DRK/NIN is also a good choice here.
4) The mob can be engaged fulltime and is not overly threatening. PLD is a waste of a slot, tank it with whatever you want /NIN or even /SAM.

DI falls in category 3 given that it can be cotanked in order to avoid the issues with deal damage from the front, so SAM is the more efficient choice. The only exception to the above that comes to mind is Mahjlaef the Paintorn, as PLD can work on both shields simultaneously via Atonement. In addition to being a sufficient tank, it is the superior DD due to a mechanic unique to that fight.
lol?

*made some edits for clarity*

Quotes aren't working so...

1) I posted my opinion and evidence to support it about why I thought that statement was incorrect.

2) I posted the evidence, read up.

3) You completely overlooked everything about PLD when you posted this. PLD can keep hate without being engaged, SAM cannot. PLD can do amazing damage with Atonement, almost rivalling that of a Samurai's. A good PLD knows how to count to 3 and can keep shadows up, with the support any tank should have, no one is going to be relying on Shield proc, but even if they were PLD can actually take the hits. SAM can't survive every TP move from a mob, Fulmination comes to mind. SAM has much lower defense, so PLD doesn't need as much PDT, besides it's not all about PDT, some of DI's and Khim's moves are magic damage. PLD is the optimal tank in every situation, case closed.

4) You argue that BLU is an inefficient slot, a statement that is not correct and has been contested, not without merit multiple times, you then vouch for an inefficient tank as your argument.

Edit: In response to your edits. PLD is a better tank period, we're talking about best possible in which case sufficient is not a valid argument. Furthermore PLD require less support, effort and skill to do the same job that a SAM tank would be biting their nails doing. If we're talking about combining slots for maximum efficiency than BLU wins hands down, again a point where you just contradicted yourself.

Your evidence was invalidated, read up.
Situation 1, neither is the optimal tank. Given that the specific example at hand was DI and he is not situation 1, this is a fallacious argument.
Are we talking total DPS? If so, lol. No, no they can't. Also, almost isn't equal. SAM is better.
A good SAM does too, and they have Seigan TE for situations where shadows are wiped and recasts aren't up.
Nor can PLD.
Why the *** aren't you stunning Fulmination? inb4 ***happens. If you're that worried about Fulm (or any other move) Khim (or the relevant NM) falls under situation 1 and the comparison is no longer relevant.
looooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Defense is sogud.
Both jobs can cap MDT.
So you're also willing to assert it's better in every situation than a RDM/NIN or DRK/NIN tank?
Fallacious logic, the two statements were not related.

EDIT:
I'm talking efficiency, I don't know what ***you're on. PLD is overkill on the tanking side of things (when DDtankable), so make use of that fact and kill faster.
More, actually. SAM doesn't need Refresh. Haste, dual Marches, good to go.
Fallacy and wrong, SAM actually has to do less to maintain hate.
Wrong.
DD tanking is not all that difficult or scary, actually.
Not a contradiction because BLU requires at least as much support to accomplish said roles and doesn't maintain simultaneous sufficiency and superiority in any combination of archtypes.

Night go lv a couple jobs to 75 your boring me 2 death with this bs..if you want to have an elitest attitude more power to you bro...but its funny how there are 20 jobs in the game and you guys only think 6 are efficent lmao

this thread is getting tired..........

Final Post because the amount of flaming I recieved, regardless of the fact that I was right is a bit ridiculous.

I'm not discouraging different job combinations, because BLU is a fun way of doing things differently without having to force other players to adapt. SAM (and DRK tank) are not like this. BLU has the power to be a fantastic DD, that's been proven time and time again, I've posted evidence to support this it's up to you to disregard that.

Arguing sufficiency there are two differences between BLU vs SAM and PLD vs SAM.

BLU can come near, match or even excel the damage of Samurai, and requires little support from other players. Can also deal the damage while weakened, and toss emergency cures, stuns, flashes and in areas with high aggro even sleeps into the mix. By definition very efficient.

SAM tank is largely luck based because if your Third Eye is going down quick seeing as the likely-hood your evading or parrying on HNM is low, so are you. You'll require more mages to be curing you, and cannot take the hits. By definition inefficient, seeing as PLD can keep hate, and stay alive better, while simultaneously doing sufficient damage.

Hope that people remember this is a discussion thread, and every job has at least one use, because that was forgotten pretty fast. /out
Got that right