|
|
Blue Mage to me is
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 714
By Odin.Kalico 2010-04-14 13:50:42
Leviathan.Thornyy said: BLU does adequately at everything. They're fine if you don't have other jobs. The problem arises from people who think BLU is better than any other job at anything: If you have perfect options and can bring whatever you want, you'd never bring a BLU.
Well by your logic there should only be 6 jobs ever played.
DD Sam only Pld for a tank brd to buff rdm to refresh enfbl Whm to main heal and Blm to sleep or Nuke....by your standards all others jobs have no place if you can come these...this a sad way of thinking... I'd never join your ls that eletist mentality takes the fun out the game i'd rather have fun and get suff done a lil slower rather than be bored to death and get stuff done a little faster and not enjoy myself lol..
[+]
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-04-14 13:53:45
Holy ***, Kalico just pulled a Pchan and the "do it your way" argument in the same post.
[+]
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 714
By Odin.Kalico 2010-04-14 13:54:13
Carbuncle.Sevourn said: Odin.Kalico said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Odin.Kalico said: i'm sure its better for magical too nothing is beating that 15 blu magic skill. You'd be wrong about that unless your resist rate is goddamn terrible, at which point I'm sure you'd know to use different spells. Quote: But and decent blu can perform very well in endgame... thats a fact. Very well =/= best. Thornyy's shell revolves around methods that push the limits of lowman and efficiency. Figuring out why he doesn't prefer BLU as a result should be pretty easy. what ever man... yawn....my point is Blu can perform well in most situtations...Yes blu is not the best DD its not made for that its a jack of all trades DD and at this it performs very well and no very well doesn't mean best its means very well. To sit up here and make a general statement that the job has no place in endgame is just stupid i don't care how good of a player that guys is or what gear he has or what his lowman ls does the guy is wrong about blu being worthless in endgame. Blu can do decent DD blu can sleep,enfbl,and heal in endgame thats what it can do, to deny this is just being stubborn.. some serious irony here
How is this irony when did i ever mention in this post that Blu can out DD the 4 specialized DD's th the game.. I never did.. I stated that Blu can perform well in EG.. thats all period I don't see the irony...now if what i said was a false statement.. and i refused to accept this then that would be irony..
[+]
Forum Moderator
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 29745
By Asura.Dameshi 2010-04-14 13:54:44
Odin.Kalico said: Leviathan.Thornyy said: BLU does adequately at everything. They're fine if you don't have other jobs. The problem arises from people who think BLU is better than any other job at anything: If you have perfect options and can bring whatever you want, you'd never bring a BLU.
Well by your logic there should only be 6 jobs ever played.
DD Sam only Pld for a tank brd to buff rdm to refresh enfbl Whm to main heal and Blm to sleep or Nuke....by your standards all others jobs have no place if you can come these...this a sad way of thinking... I'd never join your ls that eletist mentality takes the fun out the game i'd rather have fun and get suff done a lil slower rather than be bored to death and get stuff done a little faster and not enjoy myself lol.. 
[+]
 Remora.Laphine
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 356
By Remora.Laphine 2010-04-14 14:04:37
Odin.Kalico said: all others jobs have no place if you can come these I always thought it was like this lol. I doubt a ls would take you blu if you had a equally geared sam, hell, it could even be totally gimp equip wise lol.
I have a decently geared thf. I've been in a ls that would only add me to a god fight for the th when the thing was about to die, is that fair? I knew very well that i could beat most dds there. I parsed this. Still i was just another th ***.
Endgame is not about fun, ever.
 Fairy.Basilo
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 650
By Fairy.Basilo 2010-04-14 14:10:24
End game IS about having fun I believe still :< . I enjoy salvage or I wouldnt lead it 5x a week.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 714
By Odin.Kalico 2010-04-14 14:12:28
Asura.Dameshi said: Odin.Kalico said: Leviathan.Thornyy said: BLU does adequately at everything. They're fine if you don't have other jobs. The problem arises from people who think BLU is better than any other job at anything: If you have perfect options and can bring whatever you want, you'd never bring a BLU. Well by your logic there should only be 6 jobs ever played. DD Sam only Pld for a tank brd to buff rdm to refresh enfbl Whm to main heal and Blm to sleep or Nuke....by your standards all others jobs have no place if you can come these...this a sad way of thinking... I'd never join your ls that eletist mentality takes the fun out the game i'd rather have fun and get suff done a lil slower rather than be bored to death and get stuff done a little faster and not enjoy myself lol..
lol 8D
[+]
Remora.Laphine
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 356
By Remora.Laphine 2010-04-14 14:14:04
lol would you put a blu there for dd if you had mnk/sam available?
The only time i saw blu on salvage, we already had the dd/tank role filled.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-04-14 14:15:06
Odin.Kalico said: Leviathan.Thornyy said: BLU does adequately at everything. They're fine if you don't have other jobs. The problem arises from people who think BLU is better than any other job at anything: If you have perfect options and can bring whatever you want, you'd never bring a BLU.
Well by your logic there should only be 6 jobs ever played.
DD Sam only Pld for a tank brd to buff rdm to refresh enfbl Whm to main heal and Blm to sleep or Nuke....by your standards all others jobs have no place if you can come these...this a sad way of thinking... I'd never join your ls that eletist mentality takes the fun out the game i'd rather have fun and get suff done a lil slower rather than be bored to death and get stuff done a little faster and not enjoy myself lol..
I agree completely
People seem to forget this game is supposed to be fun, and just level what jobs are 'Statistically' best.
I started whichever job I thought looked the coolest and I'd enjoy most, and that's how it should be played.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-04-14 14:21:40
You should know better than to oppose Vegeta Thorny
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-04-14 14:22:17
Remora.Laphine said: lol would you put a blu there for dd if you had mnk/sam available?
The only time i saw blu on salvage, we already had the dd/tank role filled.
Yes, I like to see other DD's, and other DD's try harder because they need to.
I'd say there's more gimp sam's, pld's, brd's and rdm's in the game due than any other job due to them knowing they'll get invites regardless.
And I don't mean stupid gimpness like a PLD not having a defending ring or something, but Blurple pld's or Brd's singing in NQ traverseries for every song.
Fairy.Basilo
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 650
By Fairy.Basilo 2010-04-14 14:28:18
Shiva.Flionheart said: Remora.Laphine said: lol would you put a blu there for dd if you had mnk/sam available? The only time i saw blu on salvage, we already had the dd/tank role filled. Yes, I like to see other DD's, and other DD's try harder because they need to. I'd say there's more gimp sam's, pld's, brd's and rdm's in the game due than any other job due to them knowing they'll get invites regardless. And I don't mean stupid gimpness like a PLD not having a defending ring or something, but Blurple pld's or Brd's singing in NQ traverseries for every song.
That was a response to me because i quoted them say "Endgame is not about having fun ever" and I replied I enjoy endgame - salvage they replied "lol but would you put a blu in there for DD if you had a mnk or sam" it doesnt follow lol... /give up.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 714
By Odin.Kalico 2010-04-14 14:41:01
 Leviathan.Thornyy
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Thornyy 2010-04-14 14:51:19
Shiva.Flionheart said: People seem to forget this game is supposed to be fun, and just level what jobs are 'Statistically' best.
I started whichever job I thought looked the coolest and I'd enjoy most, and that's how it should be played. Did you have fun camping Sarutobi Kyahan? Do they make playing MNK more fun? I use this as an example since it's probably the most time consuming piece of gear you have. Yes, the ultimate goal is to have fun, but many people do so through a sense of character progression, similar to how many people strive to have top #s in first-person shooters. I like playing BLU. I like being an asset to my linkshell and helping us reach new heights more though, that wouldn't happen if everyone just stuck to the job they like the gameplay aspect of best.
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-04-14 14:57:35
Leviathan.Thornyy said: Shiva.Flionheart said: People seem to forget this game is supposed to be fun, and just level what jobs are 'Statistically' best.
I started whichever job I thought looked the coolest and I'd enjoy most, and that's how it should be played. Did you have fun camping Sarutobi Kyahan? Do they make playing MNK more fun? I use this as an example since it's probably the most time consuming piece of gear you have. Yes, the ultimate goal is to have fun, but many people do so through a sense of character progression, similar to how many people strive to have top #s in first-person shooters. I like playing BLU. I like being an asset to my linkshell and helping us reach new heights more though, that wouldn't happen if everyone just stuck to the job they like the gameplay aspect of best.
I actually got it on the first drop :D
My Byakko's were my longest to obtain piece, like it is for most people who don't merc it.
And I do enjoy camping pieces yup. Just to level a job which you know will be statistically best is a very shallow way to play the game.
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-04-14 15:02:35
Shiva.Flionheart said: Just to level a job which you know will be statistically best is a very shallow way to play the game. Is it really though? Bear in mind this is an MMO. Playing the jobs that perform best benefits your entire group, whereas playing the jobs you love benefits you alone. If anything, only playing the jobs you love is the shallow way to play, hence the fact that I haven't permanently deleveled my BLM and never will.
I find balancing fun and utility jobs to be the ideal solution (I'm not always running with a group after all), but to outright call Thorny's approach wrong is questionable logic.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 714
By Odin.Kalico 2010-04-14 15:15:05
Leviathan.Thornyy said: Shiva.Flionheart said: People seem to forget this game is supposed to be fun, and just level what jobs are 'Statistically' best. I started whichever job I thought looked the coolest and I'd enjoy most, and that's how it should be played. Did you have fun camping Sarutobi Kyahan? Do they make playing MNK more fun? I use this as an example since it's probably the most time consuming piece of gear you have. Yes, the ultimate goal is to have fun, but many people do so through a sense of character progression, similar to how many people strive to have top #s in first-person shooters. I like playing BLU. I like being an asset to my linkshell and helping us reach new heights more though, that wouldn't happen if everyone just stuck to the job they like the gameplay aspect of best.
Well thats not what i'm saying, i think if some 1 has only rdm and blu and they are tired of playing rdm at events and want to use their blu and you say no because blu has no place in eg or its not a top teir DD come rdm then thats crap because they can come blu and still be an asset. I don't think you should come rdm/nin to a xp prty in the name of fun but as long as your not stoping your prty from getting the win there should be some flexability on what jobs you come.
Phoenix.Dooom
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40
By Phoenix.Dooom 2010-04-14 15:22:22
So it's ok for people to come what job they want to events, but not to exp parties? Why the distinction?
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-04-14 15:25:51
Phoenix.Dooom said: So it's ok for people to come what job they want to events, but not to exp parties? Why the distinction?
I personally think, and allow anyone to come to anything as what they want.
(of course a DD has to be a DD and a healer has to be a healer etc)
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2010-04-14 15:30:22
Situational stuff is Situational.
/thread
[+]
 Sylph.Sindri
By Sylph.Sindri 2010-04-14 15:51:33
While I do not necessarily agree with BLU being a reliable sleeper for most events :bar nyzul and occ. Limbus: due to the short range of our sleepgas and the fact that yawn requires the monster to be facing you, I think it can be used for many things. With auto refresh, relic body and conserve mp trait, you won't need to rest much, period with drainkiss or hammer if you can aspir mobs. Pulls off consistent damage in sword with an a- skill, no not as good as a two hander, but fairly respectable none the less. Spells do amazing damage and if using disseverment then that poison does a lot of un appreciated damage. Corrosive ooze is great for nyzul and limbus bosses, not to mention a blu can do almost anything on climb solo. Can dispel flayers, solo almost every mob on all, even some of the nms, sleep and DD regularly of course.Obviously not as good a nuker as blm or even rdm but on mobs like faust where its the only option even with just random int and mnd gear :errant ftw: you can do some decent numbers. Definately a jack of all trades, problem is people compare it to the masters of one.
Leviathan.Thornyy
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Thornyy 2010-04-14 15:56:01
Sylph.Sindri said: Definitely a jack of all trades, problem is people compare it to the masters of one. Problem with doing it any other way is that if you want a role filled you CAN take one of the masters of one. There are very few situations where your group will benefit significantly from more than one aspect of BLU at one event. Nyzul is a great example of that, though I'd still argue a traditional setup of RDM BRD DNC DD DD DD will have a higher clear rate.
[+]
Sylph.Sindri
By Sylph.Sindri 2010-04-14 16:00:45
One situation where blu can't be beat us ultima. Diffusion and saline coat along with a Cor in the party to magis roll for blu benefits is invaluable for surviving citadel buster. Also, its been used to pull the pandemonium wardens pets via temp. Shift if you can take him down. Just some stuff I forgot to mention :)
Leviathan.Thornyy
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Thornyy 2010-04-14 16:02:54
Sylph.Sindri said: One situation where blu can't be beat us ultima. Diffusion and saline coat along with a Cor in the party to magis roll for blu benefits is invaluable for surviving citadel buster. Wrong. Limbus ir all about using least members possible: Extras can farm additional chips and increase your loot greatly. DRK DRK BRD RDM BLM BLM can kill ultima safely and reliably, why add a BLU?
Quote: Also, its been used to pull the pandemonium wardens pets via temp. Shift if you can take him down. Just some stuff I forgot to mention :) I'd argue a PLD/RDM is a safer method of pulling lamps.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 714
By Odin.Kalico 2010-04-14 16:09:25
Leviathan.Thornyy said: Sylph.Sindri said: Definitely a jack of all trades, problem is people compare it to the masters of one. Problem with doing it any other way is that if you want a role filled you CAN take one of the masters of one. There are very few situations where your group will benefit significantly from more than one aspect of BLU at one event. Nyzul is a great example of that, though I'd still argue a traditional setup of RDM BRD DNC DD DD DD will have a higher clear rate.
well mr eletist RDM BRD DD DD DD DD will do better,rdm and brd/whm is more than enough heal so by your standards dnc is a waste of space when you can put a Sam there 8D
[+]
 Leviathan.Niniann
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2010-04-14 16:10:47
Odin.Kalico said: Leviathan.Thornyy said: Sylph.Sindri said: Definitely a jack of all trades, problem is people compare it to the masters of one. Problem with doing it any other way is that if you want a role filled you CAN take one of the masters of one. There are very few situations where your group will benefit significantly from more than one aspect of BLU at one event. Nyzul is a great example of that, though I'd still argue a traditional setup of RDM BRD DNC DD DD DD will have a higher clear rate.
well mr eletist RDM BRD DD DD DD DD will do better,rdm and brd/whm is more than enough heal so by your standards dnc is a waste of space when you can put a Sam there 8D
Haste Samba is 10% haste, and it can cure, defense down, stun, etc..... soooo.
[+]
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15065
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-04-14 16:11:02
Odin.Kalico said: Leviathan.Thornyy said: Sylph.Sindri said: Definitely a jack of all trades, problem is people compare it to the masters of one. Problem with doing it any other way is that if you want a role filled you CAN take one of the masters of one. There are very few situations where your group will benefit significantly from more than one aspect of BLU at one event. Nyzul is a great example of that, though I'd still argue a traditional setup of RDM BRD DNC DD DD DD will have a higher clear rate.
well mr eletist RDM BRD DD DD DD DD will do better,rdm and brd/whm is more than enough heal so by your standards dnc is a waste of space when you can put a Sam there 8D
You're not using your brain. The dancer isn't there to heal.
Edit: Dammit Ninian!
[+]
Leviathan.Niniann
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2010-04-14 16:13:08
It's okay whenever anyone tries to insult DNC, I AM ON IT.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 714
By Odin.Kalico 2010-04-14 16:15:10
quote doesn't work but rdm can do it way better dia 2 or 3 and haste 15% so Sam would be better spot than Dnc
Interference.
That's what Blue Mage is.
Blue Mage will always be a substandard choice if you focus on things like pure damage, main healing ability, enfeebling, nuking, etc.
When you start to play to the strength of Flexibilty and focus on the role of interference... people probably still won't notice you standing out.
Until you're gone.
Blue Mage excels in disrupting mobs' offenses, and making them less dangerous all around.
Being able to stun 83% of all tp moves attempted in a limbus run (NE Apollyon is where I like to BLU especially), emergency cure, crowd control with Gravity, Bind, and Sleeps (light+dark) more accurately than a BLM, Nuke efficiently and almost hatelessly (while enfeebling), and, on top of all that, still put out almost passable DoT or Spike damage, makes Blue Mage the most versatile job I can think of.
The point of my post is this, people should never focus on just one, or even just two, aspects of Blue Mage. If you're not going to take advantage of all the tools the job has to offer, why bother? You won't be anything but a subpar DD, and to that point, you're just making the rest of us look bad.
|
|
