My Thoughts On Evasion Skill Vs. Evasion +

::Note::
This Page is originally intended to post my long response to comments made on the Elusive Earring page, found here:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=14761
Just so you're not completely lost on parts.
That said, this is still a forum, so feel free to post your responses to my thoughts like normal.

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I have been thinking long and hard about the difference between Evasion Skill + and Evasion +. I have been looking over other people's opinions and thoughts to see what if any of it make sense, and I have come up with this:

There is indeed no direct documented proof that Evasion Skill + is better than Evasion +. That is true, and it's hardly debatable. But there is a lot of indirect proof that it most likely is more important.

The most basic and obvious thing, is that there is a lot more Evasion + Gear than there is Evasion Skill + gear. After stating the obvious, you have to think of the reason why?

Common sense is telling me that Evasion Skill is more important. I won't say I have proof of it, but it's pretty obvious that there's some difference, most likely case is that skill + is more beneficial.

I found I really liked Grondell's statement, for it seemed to make a lot of sense. Evasion skill is capped out at 75, the most being 276 evasion before merits. Like us, mobs will have at most an evasion skill of 276 at level 75 following the curve, for every Monster has a job, and skill levels are based on jobs.

Evasion skill +, being from Merits or from gear itself, would thus raise your skill level higher than your current job level, thus giving you a base evasion of a higher level following the skill curve. At this point, Evasion + gear will just make you evade better at that level, making up for any accuracy a monster has, after ignoring the skill level difference from mob level.

Thus, evasion + gear would enhance your ability to evade at your current skill level, just like Accuracy + helps you hit at your current skill level. So stacking Evasion + gear in slots that don't have Evasion Skill + -would- give you the most Evasion possible.

I won't say that 1 Evasion skill = 2 evasion, seeing as there is no documented proof, but I will also say that it is very easy to believe.

Now, the other part of this post I wanted to deal with Arivale's comment.

First, you're right, there is no Dark Magic +, only Dark Magic Skill +. But you're ignoring a VERY obvious fact:
There IS Magic accuracy and Magic Attack + gear.

It's just like if you look at Weapon Skill + gear, they add to your base weapon skill, thus to your base attack and accuracy. After a certain level, the bonuses from skill is lessened, this is true, but it's also getting two things in one, for you get Attack and Accuracy + in one part rather than having to get them in different slots, which is why Weapon Skill + gear is so great and rare.

Though I cannot think of another thing Evasion skill + would grant bonuses to like Weapon Skill + does (attack and accuracy), I have to believe that it has a greater impact on overall evasion. Such as adding more evasion + than normal evasion + gear could.

All of this leads me to believe that Evasion Skill + is has more of an effect than Evasion + on gear.

/endthread

well the more skill you have at it the better of a chance you will evade.... a thf with 300 eva skill will always evade better than a thf with 270 eva skill wearing gear that gives eva +10 or 20

Again?

Really?

I'll put my gil down on skill any day.

Get a parser. Load up on evasion skill and go through 1000 defensive rounds. Load up on evasion+ and go through another 1000. Make sure the mob is the same for both. Post results.

I am almost tempted to do this just to shut everyone up.

this is as bad as religion. Why does everyone insist on pushing their beliefs on others?

Evasion skill is how skilful you are at evading and evasion is how good you are at evading. The difference is obvious.

:p

like Jaguarx said... this is like beating a dead horse.

let me shed my experience with this subject...

tested 2 identical race PLD's @ 75 in the boyahda tree against primarily crabs and some mandys

each pld grabbed a mob and did not engage (same LV)

both paladins were wearing either identical gear, or else nothing at all for that respective armor slot

1 paladin wore optical hat (+10 evasion)

1 paladin wore boxer's mantle (+10 evasion skill)

+Skill > +evasion... now let it rest

Were the mandies the same lvl?

Did the mandies have any acc gear or acc food?

The difference between the two is not noticeable, lol

You should! (So I don't have to ;P) It would be nice to have a controlled test on something like this that is still debated every few weeks.

any and all mobs used in experiment were gauged as same LV by a BST that was exping in the area. he was even nice enough to convert some of them for us. Mandys were wearing life belts and sushi. My only regret is that i did not have a parser to give concrete evidence of the actual evasions... but the PLD wearing Ohat was losing health significantly faster than the Boxer's mantle pld. (if you are going to discount the difference of +8 defense on the boxer's mantle over the ohat, then go fly a kite)

Eyeballing doesn't help. Sorry.

eyeballing one pld dying faster than the other over a 2 hour period consistently is enough evidence for me. overall the difference isnt day/night, but for the sake of skill vs +eva, it was obvious enough... take it as you wish, im done with this beaten arguement

Hell, you don't even know who was getting hit for more damage. Your argument holds no water. One pld could have been getting hit for more damage than the other, but taken less total hits, still resulting in more hp taken away.

no more eyeballing when trying to prove anything please >.<

the other thread about this someone had actually parsed to prove the one with the highest value is better

how? both pld's were identical, wearing identical gear... even had the same HP... neither pld was engaged, nor facing the mob (for shield blocks etc) both plds were taking virtually the same damage the entire time when getting hit... would it make you happier if i told you the Ohat PLD were wearing protect 1 to make up for the 8 defense deficit from the boxer's pld? no because you would still complain that 2 defense would make a difference

No matter how much this argument carries on, people will still be mixing both together, so does it truly matter? The only thing I can think of that this truly affects is the earring, which from what I've heard, would have hardly any difference from Elusive even if skill was better.

Little something called randomness. Nothing is set in stone. You can have the same gear and same ect, you won't get the same result every single time. You can get the AVERAGE, with a lot larger than a 2hr testing time, and that'd be the most accurate result, but doesn't mean it'll go that way every single time.

Good to see you came back.


Parse or bust, your testing amount to ***.

even if you parse, eva in itself is random as well.

then parsing is busted too... due to randomness. like you said, you can never get the same result.


anyone wanna argue treasure hunter while we're at it?

You fail to get the point, and it's funny. You are still posting here after you said you were done.

Parsing will get the more accurate result and the LARGER the test sample, the more accurate the result. Let's turn 2hrs into 10hrs, parser logging each individual hit, giving you exactly how many connects and how many misses with both. While it's not going to be perfect, it's going to be a lot closer to the actual truth than any piece of ***you can come up with in 2hrs w/o a parser.

No point in arguing, since you cant really prove anything EVA vs EVA skill, or treasure hunter for that matter, unless SE makes an official statement about it.

Just let ppl believe what they want. I will always believe that Eva Skill > Eva until SE tells me otherwise.

And kinda believe that the ppl arguing that Eva > Eva skill is just trying to justify going with the cheaper (easier) option, since atleast on my server everything that has 'eva skill' on it is alot more expensive than the stuff that just have 'eva'.

Btw lol i doubt his two mandies were even the same level.

says the guy who has over 3200 forums posts and is perpetuating nearly every opinionated argument thread out there. go ahead and stand in whatever zone you want with parse for 10 hours and analyze/log every single hit-- sounds like you should get up off your *** and go do some testing of your own since you are so critical. ive done all i need to come to my own conclusion.

Why are you still here? I love when people say they're doing posting in a thread, but can still be found. Your results don't amount to ***, eyeball, ect.

Btw, testing HAS been done, and the conclusion has come up to where they are so close, that there isn't going to be a real difference, even if one is SLIGHTLY better than the other. Parsed testing, ect, all of which is more reliable data than your ***.

In before you post again.