Annihilator Vs. Yoichinoyumi

Okay, I just don't understand why Annihilator is so fabled. Like yes it's a relic, relics are nice but from what I know about RNG: Guns only do good damage from close range, and RNG is intended to be fairly distant from the mob.

Also, Annihilator has much longer delay than Yoichinoyumi, and has just over 50% of the base damage. Im sure I'm missing something, I'd just like to know what it is :)

Ur missin the point of a KC zerg Anni lolz :p it can still happen cause im told that the WSs sweet spot is between 5.5 and 6 and u can melee at 5.

No concrete evedine on this but, ti what ive been told by an anni user.

Tho yoichi does offer a very low hate on Namas Arrow.

Anni WS lowers ur overall Enmitty allowing u to keep attacking or to WS Barrage WS w/out much worry unless u x3 ur barrage. then have fun in ur next life :p

Gun is better for a lot of reasons, but to answer what you mentioned:

Annihilator takes the cake for two main reasons; Coronach lowers enmity which allows you to stop holding back so much on RNG, and more importantly, it's like you said: "Guns do good damage from close range". The reason this is a positive is because guns will do better damage from point blank range, i.e. when you take hate, which if you've ever seen a RNG do anything anywhere, they take hate a lot.

Also means you don't have to drop back as far to WS if you're using Kclub, Ridill, or Mercurial Kris.

Always been under the impression bow was stronger, but the enmity down effects are pretty nice with Coronach, a maximum of 80 CE with that ws.
Both have their own uses really, and I doubt the difference is very substantial. Bow is a lot more expensive too, might be a deterrent.

Cat avatar > that avatar :(

Well, just as an aside, Coronach's aftermath is lowered enmity, meaning more ranged attack and Coronach spam. Also, Annihilator paired with a KClub is frightening (but tpfeed), adding to that the lowered enmity aftermath.

But most importantly, longer delay, yes, but Annihilator's delay makes it extremely easy to gear for a 5-hit build, which will reach 100TP faster than a 6-hit Yoich (if you are rattk-ing for TP).

@ Darkanaseur True it's more expensive but if your going for a relic, youll have some sort of funding it's going to be a matter of time, not money.

Haha, might have to change it back, this one is glitching :<

Elimist hit it right on the spot. the 5hit=sexy but, a yoichi can still perform better if u are Rattin with a 6 hit simply because the WS numbers will be superior if u cant run into a closer range. I love anni KC RNGs in dyna. they are smokin hawt.

Well even still, if they're both pretty close in terms of damage but you could get one sooner than the other, which would you do? Gun definitely is more useful for event/HNM situations. Can use a KC with bow too y'know >.>

Yes, KC can be used with a bow, but the distance factor plays well into this, because Yoichi will not perform as well as Anni point blank. So if you are tping with Kclub and a Yoichi, you are losing DOT if you have to walk back 9 yalms or so to your WS to make it most effective. Anni will be able to pretty much WS from where they are tping, maybe back up a little bit.

Well even still, if they're both pretty close in terms of damage but you could get one sooner than the other, which would you do? Gun definitely is more useful for event/HNM situations. Can use a KC with bow too y'know >.>[/quote]


KC Bow would work yes but, not nearly as well as Gun. thats why u leave close range yoichi to SAMs with Sobos

Ah I see. How big is the sweet spot bonus on weaponskills?

Bottom of the page

It's not so much a bonus to the sweet spot as it is a detriment to your WS when you ARE NOT in your sweet spot. SE seems to want to stress the importance of this with the new annoying ranged attack text. STRIKES TRUE PUMMELING MOB FOR SO MUCH DAMAGE

I also need to point out that the base damage of the ranged weapon needs to be added to the ammo to find out the true damage of the weapon. In this case it would be 119 for Yoichi (bow+ Kabura arrow) and 128 for Anni (gun+Silver Bullet). This is another case where the gun wins yet again.

It's a small factor, but another reason why gun is better, is because the higher your delay is, the more useful Rapid Shot procs become.

I can do some math but eh, it's 1:30 AM, and I'll leave Raenryong, Vegetto, Argettio, or someone to figure it out for you.

High delay = easy 5 hit
Low base damage is made up by bullets having far higher (x2-3) damage than arrows

And any good RNG will know they are limited by enmity, which is why a lot of RNG TP in novia earring etc, so Coronach's aftermath is a great bonus.

Yoichi is a great weapon, and the fact you can use it on 2 jobs is one of the main factors it is normally considered 'better' than annihilator (the sweet spot is another).

Anni = aggressive rng who can pretty much do whatever they want (flashy shot, barrage etc) and never get in trouble, except from AOE.

Yoichi = in the hands of a RNG, they can re-gear with aftermath up to allow more powerful r.att/str builds but will still be limited by enmity (more so than a non-relic rng). In the hands of a SAM this can be pretty devastating (if done correctly), aftermath makes up for their naturally low r.acc and can spam WS (easy 5hit).

Edit: just noticed this
I am pretty sure my name doesn't deserve to be in that list, but thanks :D

You're a Math addict, and you know it. D:

Lol.

Whether or not you're a RNG is irrelevant.

The math on that would be pretty simple figure out the delay after snapshot and velocity shot. Get approximate frequency of rapid shot firing and use that to find how much on average it lowers delay for each.


Figure out how long a delay between shooting and being able to try and shoot again. Add that to the corrected delay and use snapshot numbers to see how much by precentage snapshot on average lowers overall time between each shot. I just don't really feel like doing all that math right now

SAM can use a Yoichi too... Soboro/Yoichi is sexy

1 thing I like about guns is how you can sorta still use them like in the old prenerf days. Get in melee range shoot... then in that time after you put the gun away but before you can shoot again your melee timer starts again and you can get some melee hits in for more tp.

With a gun you can still stay at the edge of melee range and still be in the gun sweet spot depending on mob size. At worse your still close enough where for tping it wont make a huge difference and walking back 1 yalm is nothing for ws. Of course with velocity shot this is generally only worthwhile with a haste setup and multihit weapon and alot of blink lol but even without it its still a little bit of free tp in a time you would just be sitting there not getting any waiting to be able to shoot again

Not arguing that fact, just don't think I am nearly as good as Veg/Raen.

Simple works for me:

A quick read round on wikis (BG and ffxiclopedia) shows that ranged delay and the abilities that affect it aren't as well understood as melee delay, but working to the best numbers I can find.

Shotting delay on a ranged weapon = (Weapon Delay/110)s + 1.7s~1.8s + 1.1s

Anni = (582/110)+ 1.75s + 1.1s = 8.14 seconds
Yoichi = (524/110) + 1.75s + 1.1s = 7.61 seconds

Velocity shot = -15% delay
Rapid shot = ~10% of reducing the weapon delay to 0
Snap shot = upto -10% delay.

Assuming capped snap shot (which iirc is one of the best merit selections for RNG) you have a constant -25% reduction.

As far as I can tell the 2.85 seconds that accounts for taking out the weapon and returning it are not altered by any of the abilities, so:

Anni = ((582*.75)/110)+ 1.75s + 1.1s = 6.82 seconds (16.2% reduction in total delay)
Yoichi = ((524*.75)/110) + 1.75s + 1.1s = 6.42 seconds (15.6% reduction in total delay)

Both weapons have a delay ~2.85s when Rapid shot procs, so if we account for that we get and average delay of:

Anni = (6.82*.9)+(2.85*.1) = 6.42s
Yoichi = (6.42*.9)+(2.85*.1) = 6.02s

Assuming 5 hit for anni and 6 hit for yoichi

Anni WS-WS = 5*6.42 = 32.1 seconds
Yoichi WS-WS = 6*6 = 36 seconds. (SAM would melee their TP)

So Anni benefits more form delay reducing abilities (which I could have said before I started this as they are percentage based, but thought I would go through the motions).

What about the ammos delay? WHere exactly does that figure in lol?

TP gain (combined Weapon and Ammo defines your TP return per shot), but it doesn't seem to affect the shooting rate.

Link so some testing (sorta)
http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77796

I out DD'd a kraken anhilator rng on sam/nin lol during ISNM yesterday

Seems odd that it wouldn't do anything for shooting rate. I mean throwable ammo sure does... but if it really doesn't and only affects tp well that is highly unfair to higher delay ammo really.

Agreed, as you can see from the thread I linked, I used to think that ammo delay defined your 'reload' time (time when you are unable to shot despite the bow being 'stored' in your ***), but I was proved wrong.

I was just wondering why the intial poster didn't look at this thread first.

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/?topic_id=5227

Its not even that old.

Gun isnt useful for HNM situations except for wyrms, your gonna wanna be far from the mob. Khim, Cerb, KB, Aspi, etc; etc; your all going to be a fair distance from the mob, I was under the impression Vulcan's Staff Bows were better here. Either way I guess theyre both fantastic.