SMN/SCH..

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SMN/SCH..
 Kujata.Daus
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By Kujata.Daus 2009-11-27 18:11:17
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I mentioned erase. Id like to go /sch to odin, but I need erase :P he does that aoe hundred needles move thing where everybody runs in to absorb and it usually ends up binding everybody. Pulling out leviathan just often isnt the most time convenient..I've died this way before. So I make sure I bring /whm for erase now.

 Siren.Delirium
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By Siren.Delirium 2009-11-27 18:25:34
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Kujata.Daus said:
I mentioned erase. Id like to go /sch to odin, but I need erase :P he does that aoe hundred needles move thing where everybody runs in to absorb and it usually ends up binding everybody. Pulling out leviathan just often isnt the most time convenient..I've died this way before. So I make sure I bring /whm for erase now.

isnt Spring Water AoE?? wouldnt that be less time consuming then hitting 1 person at a time with Erase?

and yes i do understand mp cost versus cast and recast times are drastically different
 Caitsith.Blurr
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By Caitsith.Blurr 2009-11-27 18:47:42
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Siren.Delirium said:
Kujata.Daus said:
I mentioned erase. Id like to go /sch to odin, but I need erase :P he does that aoe hundred needles move thing where everybody runs in to absorb and it usually ends up binding everybody. Pulling out leviathan just often isnt the most time convenient..I've died this way before. So I make sure I bring /whm for erase now.

isnt Spring Water AoE?? wouldnt that be less time consuming then hitting 1 person at a time with Erase?

and yes i do understand mp cost versus cast and recast times are drastically different


somtimes sure. sometimes maybe only 2 ppl your party are needing att down, or slow erase for example. its definitely better to just erase one, wait the long recast, and erase other, than to summon up leviathan, get into a position that will spring water all intended targets, and then waste over 60 mp and ward timer, which in the end will of taken just as long anyway.
then you might get a situation where you have all melees in your party for whatever reasons, and yeah that spring water might surely be the better way to go, erasing multiple debuffs, on multiple people ideally.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-11-27 20:04:30
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Spring Water only takes care of the following effects:

Blind
Paralyze
Silence
Stone
Poison
Virus/Plague
Curse/Doom

And if your people have all of that, that will cause a LOT of wasted time getting it all taken care of, which during that time 2 things happen: They get hit with it all again, and your tanks die.

Paralyze, Silence, Stone, Blind, and Curse ALL hurt the worst. Plague too if untreated. If you have a SMN in the tank party (which I HIGHLY recommend for something, say, Einherjar) then there will be less worry about that situation than anything.

To be honest, my wish is to have a SMN in any melee/tank party during Einherjar who's job is to get rid of those above status effects, even when you have the misfortune of fighting something that uses those moves alot. Its a make/break situation there.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-11-27 20:06:25
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of course, during that time, /WHM would be best for Erase too, although you can't erase everything at the same time.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-11-27 20:47:44
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Caitsith.Blurr said:
Asura.Korpg said:
Caitsith.Blurr said:
didnt see anyone mention erase.. for the majority of things a smn will do eg wise, /sch will usually be a fine/best way to go. there are still definitely some cases where /whm is the eg mage subjob of choice though. einherjar and dynamis are good examples imo. sometimes JUST erase and lynas are definitely enough to be making blms, smns, rdms, ***even drgs, sub whm.
Spring Water.
very effective bloodpact sometimes, yes. sometimes its still necessary to have erase SPELL though, and sometimes a lot of it, as i said. depending on how many people/what jobs people had to come to certain events... if someone leading the show told you to come smn/whm for erase/lynas, and you told them "why, we have spring water, which is 100~ mp and at best only able to be used every 45 secs", they should just bench you for said event and tough it out just a little bit harder imo.

edit: your an officer and help lead the show i forgot. you know what your doing >.>, my bad.
Not to poke wholes in this argument but you get most the nas of /whm as /sch. So actually I think you only don't get erase maybe something else.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-11-27 21:04:35
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Just Erase.

And it doesn't matter anyway, he is arguing with me just because he dislikes me.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-11-27 21:09:35
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I personally hate /whm on any job and will only do it if either I need to do barga spells or I really need erase. If sch had come out a few months earlier I probably still wouldn't have it lvld lol
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-11-27 21:12:26
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I like /WHM for the travel ease.

And Divine Seal/Convert combo on RDM.

Other than that, I'll leave it lol.

Its NEVER a choice as BLM.
 Gilgamesh.Funsam
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By Gilgamesh.Funsam 2009-11-29 02:38:21
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Asura.Korpg said:
I like /WHM for the travel ease. And Divine Seal/Convert combo on RDM. Other than that, I'll leave it lol. Its NEVER a choice as BLM.

I disagree with /whm no good for blm. having stoneskin/blink & reraise especially when soloing can be a life saver. all about situations never say never regarding a job/sub job
[+]
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-11-29 07:51:30
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I'm sorry.

I should have stated its NEVER a choice for my BLM.

Auto-Regen just kills my latent for my Sorc. Ring.

Thats why I never go /WHM, ever.

Reraise can be bought. Stoneskin/Blink is on /RDM. And when I solo, its 99% of the time /RDM or (when I'm doing puddings) /SCH.

But still, BLM/WHM never exists unless I'm doing traveling, and need to have both warp and teleport-holla/dem/mea.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-11-29 11:37:55
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Gilgamesh.Funsam said:
Asura.Korpg said:
I like /WHM for the travel ease. And Divine Seal/Convert combo on RDM. Other than that, I'll leave it lol. Its NEVER a choice as BLM.
I disagree with /whm no good for blm. having stoneskin/blink & reraise especially when soloing can be a life saver. all about situations never say never regarding a job/sub job
Blink/SS are on /rdm fast cast and gravity will also save you and higher up eatting RR one is very painful and even if I was /sch or /whm I'd still use a hairpin. And yeah the whole sorc ring thing. Especially since till recently I combine my resting and convert maccros since I was using like 8-9 peices of convert gear lol

As far as rdm DS convert goes well not like my rdm converts alot but usually 1 sometimes 2 of 2 things happen.

1. I composure a regen 2 for next to no hate and what will be full hp though I cure up a little

2. As soon as a I turn red before my convert maccro can even start cureIVing me some other clown is throwing panic cures my way lol.
 Fairy.Koryuu
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By Fairy.Koryuu 2009-11-29 11:56:10
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Wow I love how half the people lay into this guy, he asks for peoples opinion on a subjob and more or less gets told he fails as a Smn
some people need to be told the second half of "if you have nothing nice to say"

Anyways /Sch isnt a must have for Smn theres no situation where /whm wont do but its worth having for when you can use it. The benefits are many 10% fast cast and reduced MP cost while under light/dark arts regen 2 Strategems Sublimation aspir drain sleep dispel
the drawbacks arnt huge but may be important in some cases
Sublimation doesnt stack with refresh
loss of erase
loss of barspells and shell 2
loss of a couple of -na spells (viruna/cursna)

so really whm becomes the situational subjob whereas sch is good for almost everything else although I should add camping that NM frog as /sch and trying to claim with stone vs dia is fail >.<
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-11-29 12:02:34
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/sch still gets cursna.

I'd say situationally getting curaga2 banish and dia might be worth it too

Also alacrity that stone for the claim!
 Shiva.Dwyte
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By Shiva.Dwyte 2009-11-29 12:59:21
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Koryuu started to hit what i was talking about, i was told that w/ sublimation up i cant have refresh, what i got confused about was if that included the JT auto refresh
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-11-29 13:56:42
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Why do people still forget that Spring Water IS your -na.

No matter what sub you have, you will still have all the -nas you want.
 Bahamut.Weasel
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By Bahamut.Weasel 2009-11-29 13:57:43
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I use /WHM when I don't know what I'm getting into (doing a new activity as the job, not sure how a strat will go, etc.) and I want to play it defensively with Stoneskin/Blink. You get a bit more total MP from /WHM as well, but MP gear can be bought, so it's not a make-or-break thing with subjob selection.

If I know I have a good RDM in my party who doesn't panic under pressure, I could decide to go /WHM since it's better MP management (3MP/tick Refresh vs. 2MP/tick Sublimation).

All other situations, I default to /SCH pretty much. Spamming Alacrity + Aspir is fun in campaign (with Spirit Taker, Sublimation, Siphon, you rarely have to heal). Depending on what you do, a quick Dispel/Sleep (without getting out specific avatars) can be helpful sometimes too. (Don't do that if you want hate on your pet though.)
 Caitsith.Blurr
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By Caitsith.Blurr 2009-11-29 14:57:09
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Asura.Korpg said:
Just Erase.

And it doesn't matter anyway, he is arguing with me just because he dislikes me.


your right, i seriously dislike you. but i wasnt even arguing. i simply TOLD you that sometimes erase is reason enough to have your mages sub whm. spring water is only worth it in a handful of situations that rarely even present themselves, where a few extra erases being handy actually IS very common. einherjar, salvage, limbus are good examples, as i said before like twice.

MAJORITY of time even, and im not talking about *** around solo, eg'ing mages should be /whm <.<
 Caitsith.Blurr
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By Caitsith.Blurr 2009-11-29 15:00:59
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Asura.Korpg said:
Spring Water only takes care of the following effects:

Blind
Paralyze
Silence
Stone
Poison
Virus/Plague
Curse/Doom

And if your people have all of that, that will cause a LOT of wasted time getting it all taken care of, which during that time 2 things happen: They get hit with it all again, and your tanks die.

Paralyze, Silence, Stone, Blind, and Curse ALL hurt the worst. Plague too if untreated. If you have a SMN in the tank party (which I HIGHLY recommend for something, say, Einherjar) then there will be less worry about that situation than anything.

To be honest, my wish is to have a SMN in any melee/tank party during Einherjar who's job is to get rid of those above status effects, even when you have the misfortune of fighting something that uses those moves alot. Its a make/break situation there.


whms on misery esuna mode..
smn would be far better suited with cor in blm parties for double mab/double refresh.
 Asura.Korpg
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By Asura.Korpg 2009-11-29 15:45:01
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So, you saying that Paralyze, Stone, Poison, Blind, and Silence doesn't exist?

Or the fact that said effects don't hit everyone?

But thats just you.
 Caitsith.Blurr
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By Caitsith.Blurr 2009-11-29 18:47:14
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Asura.Korpg said:
So, you saying that Paralyze, Stone, Poison, Blind, and Silence doesn't exist?

Or the fact that said effects don't hit everyone?

But thats just you.



make less sense why dont you >.>
try reading what your responding to next time.

quick break down:
you initially said /sch was the best subjob for smn. i posted a response saying, yes, it is a great sub, but for a lot of endgaming events, mages (blms rdms smns) will mostly be asked to sub whm for erase and lynas. you went on to rebuttal.. "spring water", which i simply said is a great move, but not the most efficient. there are occasions when you can wipe more than a couple debuffs off of a few people sure, and when that rare occasion presents its self, awesome, use it. but MOST of the f'ing time, a single erase is all a couple ppl need.
"we need you blm/whm" > "but i am more useful /sch" , that kinda ***would get you benched here, youd be lucky even not gettin booted pulling some nub ***like that..

you also went onto say, id like to stick a smn in the melee/tank party for einherjar, just for spring water. to which i replied..
they already do get one and its called a whm on misery esuna mode. unless you have people pouring out the *** to einherjar with your group, theres no reason a smn should ever be used for something like that. it would be one of the most amusing wastes id ever seen though.. so maybe not completely worthless.

if its still not clear to you what im saying... idk man, i just d k.


edit: and dont mistake me saying that /whm is the only sub a mage should ever use in eg events.. again, just saying most of the time >.>
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [47 days between previous and next post]
 Shiva.Lordtip
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By Shiva.Lordtip 2010-01-16 05:23:58
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wow some of you guys take things way to seriously, each thing you do in ffxi calls for a different situation, so look at what your doing before you make a decision =P
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By Garuda.Posty 2010-01-16 05:46:44
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I use SMN/SCH for solo because as previously stated if your soloing right you shouldnt be getting hit and having your own form of fresh is bliss, not mention aspir drain dispel sleep and regen 2.

I use /WHM for times i need to travel around a bit for tele's and i also use it for odin for erase seems so spring water doesnt remove bind.