Job Adjustments - What Would You Do?

Let's make an online poll for Byrth to be hired by SE please

I have mixed feelings on this.
On one hand it would be cool to give jobs a bonus for their "main" weapon, something else than just higher skill.
A trait sort of like Smite, that gives you some sort of bonus to all damage you perform with a certain weapon.

On the other hand, I dunno. One of the beautiful parts of FFXI compared to other MMOs is that on some jobs you really have a wide array of choices to experiment and such. Also on some jobs like DRK or WAR what would you pick as "main" weapon?

So yeah. Mixed feelings. I feel that, while cool, this wouldn't be the right solution to deny usage of Naegling on some jobs.
Honestly it's only a problem for jobs like NIN (easily solved boosting Katana), Thief, BRD, maybe BST too.
Bit harder to "fix" it for these other jobs I suppose, but still possible.

Either way, I don't think demoting Naegling should be a priority for them right now.
I mean they should've fixed it a long time ago when they saw how it was used, but now it's a bit too late to remove some jobs from the list, and really there are other things they should focus on before they get to this, I'm afraid.

The chunk limit is 2^17-1, which is 131071. Back after Abyssea's release but before SoA (I think) there was no actual damage limit. So if you brewed and WSed for a lot of damage, you could see numbers above 99999. Frequently they would overflow (set the 18th bit, do more than 132071 damage) so the log would say you did 20k damage but you would kill the monster in 3 WSs because you were actually doing 150k damage.

Instead of untangling their bitpacking nightmare, and dealing with the larger packet size, they fixed this by setting a damage cap of 99,999 per WS, magic, etc. in the server code so now you could only do up to 99,999 damage.

Barrage bypasses this cap and kept overflowing (not sure if it still does) because it was calculated as X melee attacks, capped, and then added together. It definitely kept doing 99k+ after the patch. I could also buy that hot shot and other hybrid WSs were the same, but I don't remember it and don't think it is still the case. Afaik Barrage remains unfixed.

I don't play RNG
But i think most probably find Hover Shot
Kinda goofy

Would get rid of the silly movement mechanic
At least change it to something like maybe every 5~10 shots
Before having to move around

that'd be even better. as well as reducing its recast time by half (10 minute recast is a bit much lol)

an interesting way to fix savage blade issues could be to add WS wall to more things, but rework WS wall to diminish after one tick, so it only affects you if more than one person is spamming the same WS

The fun part is this is easily doable!!

Just copy whatever Murasamemaru is doing and paste it onto Formless Strikes. You could also make Formless Strikes apply the Tomahawk debuff constantly as long as you’re hitting the target for added party utility.

There’s a few ways to fix this if SE could be bothered but I was reading on Reddit that working on FFXI is somehow career suicide or something ridiculous

Hover would be a lot more usable if it stored your stacks after stopping hovering instead of resetting them.

Summoner:

Stances.

One which increases summoning magic recast to 90s or so (60s if it can ignore fast cast and quick magic) and instantly dismisses an avatar when using a blood pact, but allows blood pact usage without a cooldown. Classic Final Fantasy summoner mode, you call up your monster for an effect and it goes away; the original vision for the job realized. Probably awesome for buffing and never used otherwise.

One which allows the summoner to convert TP into blood pact rage cooldown. Either using blood pact: Rage automatically consumes TP, or the effect is triggered by using a weaponskill*. Either way, blood pact: rage delay reduces by 1s per 200 TP. Get summoners in there meleeing to use their damage spikes like other jobs use weaponskills.

* some exceptions should probably apply, Myrkr probably shouldn't count. Damage-inflicting weaponskills, I guess.

Empathy

Add an ability which functions like dragoon's Spirit Link and Empathy combo. Maybe tack it onto Mana Cede or something. Give summoners a way to feed songs and other buffs to their avatar without having to completely change how songs work.

Balance Astral Conduit

Too much damage too fast, so literally everything that gets added now has to just be like "lol no summoners allowed." Fixing the blood pact wall so it's successive uses of the same ability would be better, but let's just go right for the tactic that was so scary they had to kill a job over it.

Refresh blood pact recasts on calling a new avatar rather than having no recast. Make summons cast like they have quick magic, but give them a 15 second recast or so. Extend Astral Conduit to 60s. You can throw everything in your arsenal at a target in rapid succession, but can't just hammer away with volt strike. It's probably overall a less powerful ability, but we were starting from, again, so powerful it justified making the job unplayable in endgame content.

BST

-reverse the distance nerf, or at least increase the range by a bit so it's possible to use ready even when you're not on top of the pet.
- Charm's bind effect to last longer and impossible to resist.
- Feral Howl: pretty much same as above
- Tame: reset hate

this would be interesting if bst had something similiar too. like summon like an additional pet but just to do a buff/debuff

Yeah, in those larger monster fights, playing BST can feel like playing with a broken controller :/

Double pets would be cool
Why not V25 has 2 ADDS

Something like that might
Cause more pet jobs to be thrown into the mix

For DRG besides there current pet
Give them this guy

Nerf savage blade by a decent bit. I think I'd just wait for the dust to settle after that before even considering further job adjustments, because the meta would shift so hard doing further changes before seeing what meta shifts it causes could be bad.

Literally just throat stabbing Savage Blade would on its own nerf some jobs and unnerf others that the meta would look quite a lot different, I think.



Also prolly buff Knights of Round, Atonement, Chant, Death Blossom, Expiacion to fill in the hole savage blade leaves behind for the "sword native" jobs (Pld/Rdm/Blu), as compensation for their "main" weapon type getting kicked in the nuts.

Every single other job that was crutching on Naegling though deserves to get that crutch kicked out from under them. Go get a proper weapon nerds!

Tiz expi is already stronger than savage blade, its naegling that creates issues

I mean at least those abilities would have some use and they're not game breaking.
I'd like also for the Call Beast timer to be lowered, so that we can "spam" pets but at our expenses (unless you have cooking, jugs are stupidly expensive).

I disagree tbh

There's tonmes of other pulse weapons, that can be used by many jobs, and give even bigger dmg bonuses.

But Naegling is insane because:

1. It's paired with Savage blade, which scales insanely high off ftp

2. It's a singlehand weapon which means you can dual wield it with a tp bonus offhand

If savage blade wasn't so powerful, Naegling wouldn't be any more insane than any of the other pulse weapons.

Savage blade itself is the issue.

People were discussing using onion sword to get savage blade on even more jobs.

That pretty clearly shows it's not just a naegling problem.

It's a savage blade problem.

I wouldn't nerf Naeg/Savage Blade, I would pull every job off of it that has a higher rank in a one-handed slashing weapon, and buff said weapon. Too much job variety to kneecap everyone, you'd hurt RDM more than WAR that way.

Edit: Expiacion is also fine, but the other sword skills I agree with.

Edit2: I think overall adjustments are needed before job ones. I'd do a full ws overhaul round X, and take all all the sub/job requirements off of weaponskills. Then you could eliminate the redundant ones and put in new ones.

No its +15% bonus to savage blade omtop of seemingly no buff cap % atk during ws along with being on the widest array of jobs right next to tauret. You wanna fix sb spam you take magian OH away, not nerf the ws. Failing that limit the buff to atk boost amount so you arent getting a free +10% or so atk at least just wsing with naegl

or just swap naegling and nandaka's effects, but i say that for a lot of other weapons just cause the ignore def based on debuffs just doesnt fit any of the jobs on that weapon aside from drk, and theres not near as many debuffs(normally) that get slapped on to every mob than there are buffs players run around with so it balances out with SB being an already naturally strong WS

I would improve the Smite trait to yield a small TP bonus, say... half of Fencers. I would also add in gear to improve Smite, as there is gear that improves Fencer. It feels stupid that single handed weapons can outperform 2handers with relative ease. It doen't feel as bad as pre-2handed update from early 2007 back to 2003, but it does sorta feel stupid that the game revolves around TP Bonus meta, and 2handers have no reasonable way to compensate for it. No grips. Nothin'!

Heck, maybe just add an all jobs TP Bonus grip.

Rework every single weaponskill that has the "power" - "Accuracy varies with TP" -> It's never meaningfully useful, and generally just results in weaponskills that suck donkey nuts. Change them to either standard fTP modulated by TP or crit rate weaponskills... or maybe change them to defense ignoring weaponskills like Camlann's Torment/Quietus.

Rework every single weaponskill with, "Ignores Defense varies with TP." Just flat, outright double their fTP base, and 1000 TP would ignore 25% def, 2000 would ignore 50%, and 3000Tp would ignore 100% defense, resulting in capped pDif WS hit at 3000TP regardless of buffs.

Rework Relic aftermaths to be more in line with current day values. (double their effects, change stuff like Bravura's -DT to -DT II) Maybe increase their base fTP by 50% to make them stronger but not overwhelm Primes

Rework the crit hit Empyrean WSes to have higher base power to make them worth using in modern era. Maybe all crit WSes, in fact.

Rework the Ninja stances to both incorporate weaponskill damage increases for katanas specifically. Yonin would give a flat +WSD%. Innin would make WSes from behind force crit. Yes, for their entire durations.

Add Flashga to PLD and RUN

Add Stunga to DRK

Add a multi-strikes effect to Souleater, but hits past the first would not consume HP.

Add more Jug Pets and rework existing Jug Pets. Allow BST to have a skill that puts a Jug Pet buff onto the whole party on a moderate cooldown(10 mins) (+50% atk from Sheep Rage, anyone?). (New Jug Pets for each family type:

Gnole pet for Beasts (AOE Plenilune Embrace anyone?)

Peiste pet for Lizards (With Calcifying Mist and Backdraft)

Rafflesia pet for Plantoids (yes, with Blighted Bouquet even)

Ruszor pet for Aquans (yes, with Ice Guillotine and Aqua Cannon)

Sandworm pet for Amorphs (wtf they're Amorphs?? Yes, with Psyche Suction)

Wamoura pet for Vermin

Cockatrice pet for Birds (yes with Contagion Transfer)

And why the hell not... Gargouille jug with Shadow Burst.

That's all I can think of for now, but I could probably think of a lot more.

i like that double pet idea

PUP could use the Tank Automaton
And pair it up with this guy



Make this guy like a MNK
So than the PUP can Tank
And all the other MNK stuff like TP denial

Most of these are good. Idk about the DRK stuff but I don't play it because of it's interaction w/ /SAM.

I will say that giving a few more weapons hybrid ws would be sick in addition to what you wrote; I still think Death Blossom should have been one.

Edit: Also give H2H weapons grips!

Addressing Savage Blade without nerfing it would take considerable effort. If we also want to buff the “main weapons” for each job, there are several things to consider. I’d say the weapon with the highest skill grade for a job is their main weapon, although several jobs don’t have weapons graded A+, which makes it tricky to decide what to do with them.

Here’s every job with an A+ grade in a weapon:

H2H – MNK, PUP
Dagger – THF, DNC
Sword – PLD, BLU
Great Sword – RUN
Axe – BST
Great Axe – WAR
Scythe – DRK
Polearm – DRG
Katana – NIN (also Throwing at A+)
Great Katana – SAM
Archery & Marksmanship – RNG

Neither Staff nor Club has a job with A+. PLD is the strongest with both at A, but rarely uses them. Mage jobs use Staff for Myrkr or advanced skillchains, while Club is mostly reserved for Black Halo on RDM when WS wall matters.


Sword Usage

PLD might use Savage Blade or Atonement, but if a damage-dealing tank is needed, RUN does it better. RUN has A in Sword, but GS is superior since it gains no real benefits from Sword. BLU should be the best Savage Blade user, although it lacks Fencer and has Expiacion.

Jobs that may use Savage Blade in certain situations:

B Grade: WAR, RDM
B- Grade: COR, DRK
C Grade: NIN
C- Grade: DRG, BRD
D Grade: RNG

WAR using it makes sense due to Fencer, but it probably shouldn’t beat Great Axe in some cases. Sword excels when you need to jump between enemies often, such as in Odyssey.

RDM’s best weapon grades are B in Sword and Dagger. It can use elemental WS and Black Halo on Club, so it isn’t always stuck with Savage Blade.

COR and RNG melee in situations without strong ranged buffs. COR has B+ in Dagger, making Evisceration decent, but it takes a lot to match Savage Blade. If Evisceration were boosted, COR wouldn’t need Naegling at all. RNG has B- in Axe and Dagger. If these had stronger WS options, Savage Blade wouldn’t be considered. Boosting Axe would also help BST.

DRK uses Savage Blade in niche cases to avoid or set up specific skillchains but rarely chooses Sword otherwise.

NIN should never be using Savage Blade, though I’ve heard some claim it happens. I’ve never seen it myself, so maybe someone can elaborate.

Same with DRG — Polearm would have to be severely lacking to swap to Savage Blade unless the enemy is weak to slashing. BRD struggles with melee gear and defaults to Savage Blade. It has B- in Dagger, but Dagger WS are not friendly enough to replace it.


Mage Jobs

Mage jobs that rarely melee outside advanced setups include WHM, BLM, SMN, SCH, and GEO.

WHM and GEO do well with Club (B+).
BLM and SMN have B in Staff.
SCH is the worst job in the game for weapon grades. Club and Staff are C+, while Dagger and Throwing are D. As a Scholar who has tried to melee, I can say it’s awful.


Damage Types

Savage Blade mostly benefits BRD, RDM, and COR in melee setups. MNK already excels in blunt damage, DNC THF and DRG handle piercing, while RNG and COR cover ranged. That leaves other slashing weapons to compete with Savage Blade:

Axe, Great Axe, Great Sword, Scythe, Katana and Great Katana.

Great Sword is fine with DRK’s Caladbolg and RUN’s Epeolatry. Great Katana is exceptional. Great Axe is solid in prolonged fights with Chango.

That leaves Katana, Axe, and Scythe. These need boosts to bring them in line with others. This would bring NIN and BST into more melee setups, give DRK a reason to use a Scythe that isn’t Prime, and maybe get RNG to actually melee with Axes.

When there’s no damage type weakness, it’s hard to say which jobs lag behind. Since Savage Blade comes up so often, I’d guess blunt and piercing fall behind a bit. Buffing jobs that specialize in those damage types would make fights requiring them easier, but overall damage types would be more balanced.


Conclusion

Savage Blade isn’t going anywhere, and I’m not suggesting it should. But by lifting up other weapons and their WS options, we could see more variety in melee setups and give jobs a reason to use their main weapon over Naegling. It would keep Savage relevant while making the game’s weapon balance feel healthier overall. That is how I would adjust jobs.

If you want raw phys dmg its your best WS unfortunately, Blade: Ten is the runner up but its quite a gap in power and every other katana ws that isnt a hybrid does worse

DRG also sees good use out of naegling for similar reasons, they get job passive haste which makes it similar TP speed to a 2hander, or you DW with minimal DW gear but /war fencer does perfectly fine. Aside from prime no other polearm WS competes with SB for raw dmg, closest would be SO impulse drive, almost feels like an oversight since any other natural passive job haste was locked to wielding a 2 hander

caveat with both is you're stuck with savage no real SC flexibility so anytime either job can SC that can push it back to their respective weapons

^ This
Or SIMPLY DELETE SOME JOBS FROM THE WEAPON there’s no genuine reason for THF/NIN/DRG/BST/RNG to be on the thing other than Slashing Options but because the weapon appears designed to give Non-DDs a boost, it ends up overpowering most of their main weapons. They’ve deleted weapons from jobs before, they can do it again. Hell, remove it from WAR too while we’re at it, WAR doesn’t need it, they’ve got powerful options in almost every weapon type lol

Ambu weapons were designed with the most job variety they could put on most of them, plus far too late to close that lid, best they could do sans nerf stuff was put WS walls on everything, which generally works tbh. Still think naegling just needs its effects adjusted or magians TP bonus not be effective but aint gonna happen~

I don't think I could disagree much more. The jobs that only have Naegling as a suitable slashing option (THF/BRD/DRG) are the one's that should stay, in addition to the sword mains. If it overshadows dagger/polearm, buff those weapons; preferably the crit/def ignore stuff like Vyre said. At least we'd both take WAR off it.

I'd like the TP Magian weapons to die, but they'd only get replaced w/ Ikenga's Axe equivalents.

Edit: Another answer might be to put more Fencer everywhere, replace that Magian weapon with a shield on a few jobs.

Yeahhhh that’s not happening lol you’d end up with systemic revolt lol. It’s the only thing that makes RDM Melee viable just for a short example, it struggles with attack and Naegling helps a lot.

I’m more open to cutting Magian? But a lot of people put a lot of work into making those “combo weapons” so idk how well that would be received lol. We certainly don’t need the weapons to make Dual-Wield perform, it just makes it that much more satisfying is all. And gamers LOVE our Combos. Plus, there are/were fights where the ACC Check is too high to use them at all.

If anything, SE may need to start sprinkling some TP Bonus onto more weapons/armor. Thats already proven effective at ripping us right off of Magian for the few weapons that have it lol so maybe lean into it?

Well unfortunately you’re forgetting an important bit of history.

Think back to SoA when they first buffed fTP values for weapons across the board. Remember what Rudra’s Storm was doing? Yeahhhhh SE’s probably not gonna let that happen again lol.

And I’m all for options but it should be expressly forbidden for your side weapon to outperform your main weapon. You can have any slashing options you want, but this particular thing is overtuned methinks

[[Warrior]]
I believe Vyre said it before in another thread but the mention of WAR not having innate access to Aeolian Edge and Shark Bite is criminal. Warrior's in a great spot already, but having access to AE would be great.

[[Monk]]
I'm honestly surprised Monk's weapons don't encompass the weapon type triangle.
You have the Cesti-type/Karambit/Spharai/Varga as your premier Blunt types.
The Kitar-type/Verathragna as your Piercing options
And the Claw-type/Godhands as your Slashing options.

Have them start as Blunt by default, but give them a Stance option to enable them to utilize those particular typings mentioned above, for both auto-attacks and non-Footwork weaponskills. 2 hour duration; 5 minute recast exactly like a RDM's Composure. Anything that is already Blunt will gain a small 10% boost in damage. It may not put the Relic back on the map, but it damn well make Varga an attractive option for being the only REMA that can push those numbers in Blunt damage, while giving other weapons their time to shine.

[[White Mage]]
Rework Afflatus Misery by capitalizing on getting a huge Store TP bonus after casting a Cure spell on top of getting OoTwice/Thrice bonuses. Make Cure/Curaga's more potent the more hits you land as well, like say a maximum of Cure Potency II +25%. This will make up for lost time during DPS while doing the job you are meant to do. (Yes I know the Cura line exists and it works similar to the above but when was the last time anyone uses these when it only goes up to III).

[[Blue Mage]]
Reduce Diffusion's cooldown to 5 minutes/no longer meritable, Chain Affinity no longer removes TP and enhances the potency of additional effects, Burst Affinity increases damage/accuracy. Make Convergence a regular skill at 1 minute while having a dual purpose of either enhancing an AoE spell to a single enemy or a buff spell being used on an ally similar to Pianissimo.

[[Rune Fencer]]
Increase all duration of Runes from 5 minutes to literally 10 minutes or longer. The fact Diamond Aspis is able to give longer durations to jobs that are NOT Rune Fencer is absolute bull.

[[Equipment]]
Xoanon should have DRG included in it.
Give WAR access to Lionheart as a parallel to Caladbolg's PLD/DRK

SE heavyhands nerfs too, you will turn this weapon to garbage.

Edit: And some people would dumpster the weaponskill with it.