Weapon Tierlists 2025

For sure a lot of Drks in love with scythes voting.

In terms of raw damage it's gotta be Gkt, PA, GS and GA over others.

In terms of adding more to the group horn stands alone.

thanks Taint, be nice to hear more about the Primes since I never did nor will make one.

Nynja I think they can be useful because they show misconceptions not everyone is aware of. several examples already. so being unreliable is actually desirable to improving overall understanding.

Its ranked where it is (I put it squarely in C (I have no A tier relics, only S and skipped A), just above Guttler) because it puts out consistently good solo damage and can make an incredibly easy darkness, which allows for MB x2 playstyle. In other words, its the simplest way for NIN to deal damage with the least effort (Metsu > Metsu > (Darkness) Ice3/Ice2). 4 Buttons, 80-100k damage. Its just super easy dps for a job that will struggle without buffs and a relic to deal lots of damage fast. Now the moment you start adding buffs, Metsu is very far behind other options (Blade: Ten, Savage Blade, Hybrids WS), but is at least stronger than Blade: Shun (I get like 28-32k Metsu with max buffs, Shun never hits that high). Back in the day when Sheol A came out, I found that NIN soloing the UNMs for Moogle Mastery tiers was the fastest way to kill some of those NMs, using Kikoku. Especially the Sewer Syrup variant. So compared to other DD relics, the weapon adds the utility NIN needs to kill stuff reasonably fast.

Coming back to Guttler though, I think that one is rated a lot lower in people's minds because of job stigma. It's basically the exact same weapon as Mandau/Kikoku, but people have the though that BST TPs really slow, so the damage is underwhelming. You throw on a Kraken club, and Onslaught x2 is the same or better damage than Metsu, if you factor in other self buffs that BST can get that NIN cannot (Killer Instinct, Rage etc).

These lists are all for fun and completely subjective.

That’s better.

guttler also synergizes very well with tegmina buffet to make darkness which can be all the extra damage you need in some situations. however, I think prime and dolichenus is a better overall master dd weapon for physical ws. nothing quite like a sentient axe that hungers for blood, though.

My issue with Dolichenus is Decimation damage is all over the place sometimes, and it requires Smash Axe or Sweeping Gouge to 4-step light. Guttler is like Kikoku, brainless and consistent. Probably could mimic the NIN playstyle if you use Headbreaker Ken: Onslaught > Onslaught (Darkness) > Cursed Sphere. Not nearly as strong, but same amount of button presses, consistent and predictable damage for something as brainless as Limbus farming.

This is the main issue. You are tiering jobs while tiering weapons. It's an S tier weapon for a job that is currently like B in meta and your argument is DRK being B in meta makes S weapon an B weapon and SAM being A tier job makes A tier weapon better than S tier weapon. It's totally two different approaches and should always have separate rankings or people just won't get into any form of agreement ever.

Ymmm no. Gkt, GA and GS doesn't have higher damage than Scythe. What you really want to say is SAM and WAR with those weapons have higher damage than DRK, but even that is conditional. Sam with overwhelm will have higher damage than DRK without buffs like absorb and scarlet, but if you pair DRK with WAR and give it warcry and let DRK self buff to the roof, then not only DRK will be doing more or the same as SAM in that situation, but also will be WAY sturdier.

Clearly the S tier weapons are the ones available to multiple jobs >:3

You have to have a classification for these weapons (what makes a weapon S/D tier), or you're just going to get into a bunch of "nu'uhhh" arguments.

I see S tier as being an elite weapon, or that completely changes the way you can play a job, or at least can introduce something unique that can't be offered anywhere else.

I consider Tizona, Yagrush, Aegis, Loughnashade, Foenaria, Gae Buide, Carnwenhan, Yagyu Darkblade, Marsyas, Kusanagi, and maybe a few others to be S tier. Miracle Cheer hovers between S and A because of it's uniqueness, but it's lower quality in terms of what it offers, so its debatable. I just think what Origin offers is such a cool and unique option, it's unmatched in its utility. I'm not even exclusively considering its dps, though for something like Gae Buide or Kusanagi, that's the bar I am measuring those weapons by. IMO, Prime Scythe is the most unique offering of the bunch right after the Horn.

I personally don't consider Origin unique; It's a combination of two effects you already get (and on the same weapon type no less). That isn't really "unlike anything else."

Mandau on RDM changes how you play w/ daggers, but I won't consider it S either.

Subjectivity gonna subjective.

Loughnashade is a horn that replaces Daurdabla's 2 additional song effects and Gjallarhorn's +4 songs, lumped into the same piece of equipment. Isn't that "a combination of two effects you already get (and on the same weapon type no less)"? NowAria is the main attraction, which can only be used under certain circumstances.

Its the same premise with Foenaria in that it lump's Entropy's MP absorb and Catatrophe's HP absorb into one WS, a significantly more powerful WS (your strongest one). If planned properly with a Drain 3 ahead of time, DRK is practically unkillable, or at least can take all the hits away from the group, while self-healing and returning MP (if they want to mixmax more, sub whm and heal the group). Idk, I'd consider Foenaria very unique and strong at the same time. If people cared enough to try it, DRK can all but replace a standard tank in some situations because their DPS would hold hate and they have the ability to sustain themselves too.


That's why you don't make tier lists without a defined criteria. Everyone's opinion is going to vary unless you define it.

i.e. Who's the best bodybuilder of all time? Boxer? Musician? Basketball/Soccer/Baseball/Football player? All completely subjective depending on your definition of "best"

When you have zero criteria for a tier list:

I thought about polling per job or per weapon type, but went by ultimate category because it was easier. not sure if I want to refine it now and if people would keep voting and providing input.

77 votes for relics as the highest, 40 for bonanza as the lowest if anyone was curious about that sort of thing.

damn, Michael or Lebron is a safer bait.

I live where michael grew up, easy one!

Wasn't really a shot at you Kaffy, moreso piggybacking off of what Simon said. People have different criteria for what they consider ultimate/best/unique etc. If it's not outlined ahead of time, tier lists are basically opinions about what you value the most and a general consensus of how the community views it. The problem with broad lists is the exact trap Simon outlined: people will look at the job itself (say BST or PUP) and figure "well, bst sucks or isnt meta, and Aymur isn't elite because it doesn't make BST not suck or meta. So Aymur as a weapon sucks". But then you will look at a job like BLU and Tizona and not have the same job/meta stigma, thus not judging that job by the same standard you would BST or PUP because the job is viewed differently by the community. That to me seems like an inconsistent way of rating each weapon.

Origin is not the same effect as entropy. Entropy convert damage to MP, Origin steals mp from the target, which is an advantage and disadvantage. No MP on the target will result in no MP from Origin, but on the other hand you can completely floor mobs MP. You can for example steal whole MP from Omen bosses, so they won't be able to cast.

That's right, thank you for the correction. I remember having to switch to Entropy vs an Omen boss when I needed MP because Origin wasn't filling it fast enough for me. One Entropy refills all of your MP, Origin will only restore a percentage. Also, Entropy works on Undead IIRC, Origin will not. They're similar, but distinctly different, which is actually pretty cool since it doesn't 100% replace Apoc or Entropy, making them still viable options. (I still like Apoc for the JA haste option when LR falls off).

100% agree its a DRK problem.

Foenaria isn't all of a sudden making DRK a good job for Segs, Gaol, Sortie. It enhances DRK but not in a meaningful manner beyond making Schere very easy to work around. I'd argue having access to Torc and Fimb is a bigger deal working around WS walls and mobs that abs elements.

Sakpata jobs are already some of the most sturdy. Nothing is killing you in 5/5 Sakpata and 3k HP. (Master trials maybe but you won't have a DRK there either) Having 9999 is just fun to look at.

People could look at the tier list spend 6 months in sortie and quickly find out Foenaria players use their scythe the most in town.

Hmm. Gartell absorbs your buffs and hits you twice for 2800 in 3 seconds, faster than a WHM can heal you.

Thats why he's kited or Yaeg'ed. Even when we went WARandDRK for melee sortie we would just kite him if the fight took longer than 40 seconds. No reason to bring a DRK to sortie in 2025.

But we could turn this whole thread into a discussion of jobs as pointed out earlier.

You're talking like somebody who has the benefit of a consistent static and can hand pick the best jobs every single time for the most optimal/efficient run, not someone who may only have DRK available to them or is PUGing members. Kiting strats don't work in a PUG where there is no clear highest threat on Gartell's hate list, he just spins around and attacks the next person (no PLD or RUN). You're speaking as a player coming from 9-boss, optimized route perspective, not an unbiased evaluation of a job/weapon, and many players don't have that luxury to view things from the top of the meta.

This is what job bias does to weapon rankings.

No I PUGed 6/8 boss for a year+ before making a static. (static formed in July 24)

1 DD always comes /DRG for F and H. When asylum wears the /DRG DD super jumps and the other DD kites. You can whittle him down safely that way. Still holds true to this day, you just want DNC and SAM as the DDs ideally or WAR and SAM.

You just said in your first post that you used to go WARandDRK and was able to beat bosses, but now there's no reason to bring drk, lopl. I mean I get that there's always better options, but you have to consider the very simple facts that sometimes those options aren't available to everyone, or maybe someone just wants to play DRK. When you say "there's no reason to bring DRK", I can sense the job bias heavy, because you always feel DRK is not on par DPS-wise with SAM+WAR from a zerg perspective.

You're 100% team SAM all the way, i totally get it, even when you were trying to beat T3 V25s and you included SAM in the comps even when they're not preferred or even optimal. That's totally OK to have the approach that some jobs are better than others, but when that influences how you view a weapon ranking (because the job isn't meta or strong compared to other jobs), that is a whole different argument.

You would put Kusanagi or Gae Buide as S tier because it does incomparable damage (and in your rebuttal, you made sure to mention the jobs that get those weapons), but DRK is out of the meta, so the weapon doesn't get ranked as high? Lol. That's the definition of bias.

Correct, Aria is the unique effect; The other things are convenience things that combine almost all of the effects of the other instruments. It doesn't even completely replace the effects of the instruments it takes effects from. Loughnashade w/o Aria would be far less impressive.

Foenaria lets you do utility-wise in 1 ws what you can already do in 2, with more damage. Good? Yes. Unique? Not really. A solid upgrade on currently available utility.

I agree with everything else not quoted.

Edit:

In that case it does have a different use-case and would make the MP stealing the unique effect.

Same for Foenaria. It's a unique ability too, and if you want to split hairs, Aria requires a special conditional to use (which means sometimes you won't get use out of it), but that caveat doesn't bring it down in the ranking because of what it adds to the group. Whereas Origin can always be used for damage even if the absorbs don't take effect.

I wasn't arguing they should be in different tiers, I was arguing the basis for S rank that you supplied. If Foenaria's MP steal functions different than Entropy, it is unique and potentially worthy of the same tier.

Is Mandau S rank because I can multistep w/ it and can't do that (on rdm) with other pre-prime daggers? I wouldn't think so.

Edit: I guess my point is that I don't think the 3rd option for S rank is necessary. There are plenty of crap unique weapons.

You can disagree with the criteria I gave, but that's besides the point. The point I was making is that tier lists without criteria become entirely subjective because there's nothing to weigh the lists off of. I mean they're going to be subjective anyways because we all have different experiences with jobs and weapons, but without a criteria everything can be inflated or knocked down just because I say so.

You do bring up an interesting use case for Mandau I hadn't considered, though the pre-prime condition is intentional. Even still, it's a unique instance for a relic weapon that does give RDM an interesting option it doesn't otherwise have.

Maybe if you were Lute in 2020, Mandau would be rated S.

Literally started my post saying it’s 100% a DRK problem…..

Nothing I said was wrong. “I want to play” DRk is fine but knowing it’s not ideal is important. My DRK is top tier and I’ve tried it most everywhere. I don’t need to squeeze SAM into anything I use what’s best. (Mboze KI1 was our only use of SAM and we tried DRK first) We are middle aged people Time and efficiency is way more important then demanding to play a job.

I put Loughnashade as the only S rank.