Weapon Tierlists 2025

Speaking of, Gilfinder is completely worthless for THF at this point in the game. I'm shocked they even kept the stat on the reforged pieces. Don't even know what the calculation for the ability is with all the gear, but it's apparently not even worth it for RMT to exploit, so it must be terrible

I have seen a few times a full gilfinder thf botting tonberries, as recently as last year.

It was quite surprising, because it is dogshit, but he was there for months. And then replaced twice. So...

Vajra would become stupid strong if you cut SA/TA timer in half.

And as for meta, all you need is something affected by TH and THF will get crammed into the meta. Limbus NMs (Apex Ultima/Omega) or something? Give good drops that are affected with TH, or if you needed to build pop sets where TH matters? Boom, THF is in there. Sorta like Dyna Divergence, where even if THF isn't there primarily for its damage, being able to get more currency, upgrade items, swarts, Volte gear... you want to bring a THF if you can.

Realistically, a full WS quality of life pass for all types would be more likely than actual class rebalancing at this point - but it would actually achieve some of the same effects if they really put effort into it.

Considering they managed to "fix" Relic WS with Prime weapons it is clear that someone at SE understands what would need to be done.

Calamity and Mistral Axe are good damage physical WS on axe.

They both just don't have a guaranteed second hit like Savage, and their fTP values aren't has high as they should be, honestly. If they're gonna make swords with 264 delay or less have identical base damage to some axes, then they should raise the fTP on axe weaponskills across the board.

mistral really just needs a WSC boost, either to 80%~ STR or str/vit like calamity is, ruinator, along with exenterator need an ftp boost to be at all decent if not also a change in what TP does for it, but i always found most of the acc varies with TP WS to be kind of a waste since we never know how much acc is actually being added to hit, and you largely want to plan around being at or very close to acc cap so its not actually adding anything as it doesnt break the acc cap(which could be a neat change to how those WS work i guess)

Eh, from a BST perspective at least, they're not awful if you have to use them for a SC or something, but it's nearly always better DPS to do Decimation with Dolichenus. That feels like a bit of a problem. I've tried to make Mistral worth it (TP Bonus Fernagu, messed with various R15 Tri-Edge setups, etc.), but IMO it's just not.

FWIW, no R30 Ikenga's Axe here. But if that's the requirement to make Mistral worthwhile, that's a pretty unreasonable requirement.

Ya Mistral Axe and Blade: Ten should both get 50 50 stat mods like Savage Blade, they used to be much more comparable to Savage but as stat vomit has continued lacking the same amount of stat mods has caused them to fall further and further behind.

They would still suffer from not having a comparable boost like naegling but just fixing their stat mods would do a lot.

I made a Farsha, and I really enjoy it for long fights like the Dyna D Wave 3 bosses, at least on WAR.

Like, sure, Calamity and Mistral aren't as high as Savage, but they aren't getting walled, and they also still deal pretty high damage. Loads of incidental SCs too. Calamity is Scission primary, and makes Distortion off of Leaden Salute, and there's always plenty of CORs firing that off. Mistral makes Light off the Savages or sets it up for them. Also sets Leadens up to make Grav, which plays into the Savages making Frag... I could go on forever baby!

And the white damage is pretty glorious.

You mention the Tri-Edge build not working out well, even with TP bonus offhand... That sounds whack, like you should be seeing pretty dang high Calamities/Mistrals and get to WS at 1250 TP, so should even have good WS frequency even as BST. Does the Aeonic TP Bonus not stack with the Magian bonus or something? Is Tri-Edge broken in the bad way?

Farsha hits quite hard on bst too with Calamity. Not as hard as savage, but close enough, and Farsha has the higher white dmg.

Also as Vyre said, most content has WS walls so a non-savage good dmg option is very useful.

I gave up on SE doing bst any justice long long time ago.

It's obvious SE sees it as the stinky solo job and doesn't want anyone playing it to have any fun. (/bitter)

Yet they get WSD+12% pieces and THF doesn't.

See "forgot it exists" also includes having "no idea it was ever changed" (not sure when it used to be 15!) still useless at 5!


You're correct, which is why I put my parenthetic caveat. I also don't play those jobs very much (nor play with people who play them much)

But high buff situations you can have tp pretty much as soon as the ws animation is finished on some jobs, even dropping a 10k jump feels like a waste of time when you can drop a ws instead. Low buff situations are definitely different.

Having to constantly reposition yourself to make sure use of the JA, can be annoying (it can also be fun too I guess as opposed to mindless mashing macros, depends on my mood and how steady hate is, because it can also be frustrating).

If TH/gilfinder affected special currency rate THF would see a lot more action. (segs/galli/limbus units)

Mistral was better back in the day but now Calamity's 2nd WSC mod simply adds too much. Just like savage they both suck at 1K but excel at 2K+. You need a strong Main hand (Tri Edge is decent) + Ikenga + Moonshade (or Ikenga + TP Bonus Axe) and WS in lots of Nyame and WSD.

With capped haste on DRG your round with polearm takes usually 492/5 = ~98.4 delay and ja delay is around 120 delay, but only around 60 if you do it just before WS or another job ability, so if you are doing Jump for TP, its always beneficial if you do it before WS and for spirit and soul jump it's always beneficial because they are worth 2+ or 3+ rounds of TP.


I think it's a little more complicated. I recently checked using building flourish and striking flourish in some discussion involving some setup not using Climactic and only using building was a net gain and striking was a break even and that was only against Ja delay involving those abilities and wasn't counting Ja delay from increased number of steps and presto you would need to do. Climactic is whole different story. It's a single Ja delay and the effect works for 6 rounds which is usually boosting 2 WSs and 4 melee hits and sometimes even 3 WSs.

Don't worry. I'm working on a ftp replicating thf ws build that is sure to almost be as good as savage blade. I just need to conjure up another 30% triple attack somehow.

THF empyrean body is wsd+12% on the Dagger Skill piece. Completely busted. AF head has 9% and Critical Hit Damage, a very rare combination and pretty broken for stacked WS (BIS for most, if not all). Relic legs have 9% and the extremely rare stat of DEX on the legs, a whopping 21, putting Relic+4 legs > WSD+11/12 pieces.

It's clear to me there is intent behind creeping up THF's power "too much". Perhaps they see THF as a "Treasure Hunter" role, and wouldn't want it to also be an elite DD, because then you just bring THF to everything that drops things. But the problem isn't their lack of gear options or ommission of wsd+12% pieces.

Reasoning why I structured it this way is because of how THF is currently played. If you use THF solo for something, you can almost never use Sneak Attack after taking hate (because trusts are terrible at holding threat, even on higher level mobs), unless you first open with TAWS, then go behind the mob and do SAWS. At that point, you will almost always take hate back from normal swings, requiring you to use Bully in order to land your next Sneak Attack. Then, Sneak Attack can't be used anymore until Bully is up again. I notice this often when chest farming and killing Mimics; Unless he does Death Trap (hate reset) and I time my Sneak Atack+WS just right when he's attacking something else, I can never use SA unless I have Bully ready, so I'm basically down to TA only, which is very slow DPS.

Bully in a party is whatever; the tank doesn't need your intimidation effect at all, so it's barely a bonus. You merely use it out of convenience so you dont have to swing behind it. Or if you're in a zerg, its helpful to be able to Sneak Attack at all, since you can't guarantee the monster's attention will be on any one DD at a time. This is another reason why THF isn't included in Sortie (aside from the fact that TH seems to do nothing, and no sellables). It's spike damage in zergs falls off after initial use of SATA.

Now THF is super essential for stuff like HTBFs Lilith doing Spitewarden method, or Odin or whaever. Haven't seen evidence of it working on Shinryu, but point is, it is only ever included in events where you need drops. This might also explain why they gave it WSD+6% pieces initially instead of 10%, as they didn't want to double dip into THF's purpose (mentioned in earlier post)

Let's not fool ourselves here. Thief has a much better DD kit than beastmaster does. I have both jobs geared and I never take my beastmaster out except for fights where it's part of the NM strategy or to ooze bumba. Beastmaster has no native DD abilities and relies on the pet to be its partner. In theory the pet is supposed to be the "other half", and in bygone eras might have contributed enough in damage that combined with its master the dps would be comparable to a traditional dd. In today's world though it gets left behind in the dust. There is no world where beastmaster puts out similar dps as other jobs, and in most cases the buffs you get from the pets aren't worth that much.

Thief on the other hand has native dual wield III, has triple attack gear out the gazooga, gets 36% bonus damage on triple attack swings from its JSE cape, +2 neck, and relic +4 feet, and has the highest critical hit damage trait of them all. Its biggest downfall is that its defenses are dramatically lacking compared to the sakpata jobs. It's a glass cannon. But it's a damn effective one when you gear it that way. I've been taking my thief to limbus lately and it's damage is very much on par with my warrior, monk, and dancer. I would never be able to do on beastmaster what I can on thief. Thief's +4 artifact and relic also has a dramatic increase in physical and magic evasion over the +3's, which still isn't good enough to wear the squishy set against boss mobs, but against anything else you're almost untouchable. Thief is way better off than beastmaster for casual farming content.

Buukki summarized the sneak attack thing with bully very effectively. Trick attack isn't an issue to get to land; it's the 2 sneak attacks when bully is down that make life the most unfun on thief.

Heaven forbid you always bring the same job to a fight, especially one as ubiquitous as HTMB

Although I will agree that THF is much stronger than BST individually as a job, I don't agree with this statement at all, unless what you are saying is strictly from a damaging perspective in a complete vacuum. Limbus is a bad example, its just killing trash, but if we want to be technical and go there, I prefer BST solo over THF solo because of dumb floors like NW Apollyon 3-5 or Temenos where it's a linking nightmare. Having access to Snarl, a Slime pet that basically cannot die w/ Digest spam, Fluid Spread to attack everything at once and get it off the master, and the utility of it's pets (Pondering Peter can heal, Arthur can apply -33% attack/defense to all targets at the same time instantly with no threat to the master, Sheep Song, Acid Mist, TP Drainkiss, etc),is far more utility for a solo or even group scenario than whatever long-JA cooldown timers Accomplice or whatever else has. And you also mentioned it, but THF is very squishy, BST is a lot sturdier due to Snarl and the utility of the pet variety (just instantly getting everything off of you is a huge plus)

The problem with BST is it is too hampered by its pet choice, and you can't switch them out as often as SMN can for their buffs. There's also a limit on what buffs a pet can give the master, which is disappointing. They do have Killer Instinct, but that move, despite being very strong, is also very limited unless you are fighting one singular monster within Ecosystem 1+2 (Gaol its perfect for prebuffing), or you are fighting several and you can take advantage of the predator bonus. I think Killer Instinct should apply a bonus when fighting all monsters personally, and a larger bonus when fighting the favorable monster predator relationship type, because it's basically unusable in Segments at all since there's too much variety in monster types. It's only useable in Sortie on A/E, which is also frustrating. BST is also very slow at meleeing; I can't even double axe because of how slow self-SC is. Kraken Club makes it a little more bearable (Decimation 4-step is fun), but it still feels like a slog. Lastly, Axe WS are terrible. You pretty much need Spalirisos to be competitive with it, because even I am underwhelmed with Doli/Ikenga/Guttler/Barbarity.

I wouldn't compare BST to THF though, they are two totally different jobs. If BST's Axe problem was fixed and they did something with pets to improve them, it would be better than THF in a few settings. You can just look at Gaol as an example; The only time THF was used was to fulfill the 3-job requirement in triple farms, or to Larceny during Bumba. That's really the only bosses you used them on. You could at least argue BST was used a lot more, even if they were treated like red-headed step children

Both jobs have their pros and cons. I wasn't arguing for one over the other, and I agree with your points about beastmaster soloing with pet. I was just emphasizing that thief has a more robust offensive toolkit than beastmaster and its personal damage output is higher. The meta has several jobs off on the sidelines for most content. Black mage sees less use now that melee sortie strategies have become mainstream, beastaster and thief were touched upon, but there's also ranger and especially summoner who see little use outside niche strategies or specific boss fights. It is what it is. I don't think its possible for them to design content where every single job is desirable to bring for X casual thing. And for what its worth, the jobs are more balanced now than they've ever been. There will always be something that could be better, but overall things feel pretty fine from a diversity standpoint right now.