Absolutely Maximizing Hits/Sec For TH Juicing

Afaik, the damage you deal has no hearing on TH procs. I do however have a theory crits are more likely to proc it, but that's mostly a hunch, I can't confirm it.

For the intent of juicing targets to TH14 (IE meeble burrow bosses) you *dont* wanna kill em too fast, so high speed low delay low dmg is king.

Aside from using KClub (which is the obviously best way to maximize hits/sec), what's our next best composition to maximize hits/sec?

I assume right away the OAT1-4 dagger in mainhand is a given.

But then the question becomes one of single wield vs dual wield.

Afaik Praxidikai is Ex, so we can only wield one of them.

And we want to be cautious about stacking double attack, as this nerfs our average hits/sec. TA amd better yet QA are, I assume, fine.

Personally, I think I'll stack Crit chance as my hunch is crits are more likely to proc TH. If anyone has Dara on this though, I'd love to see it.

If we dual wield, then it becomes trivial to cap attack rat

The interesting question though is comparing OAT daggers versus low delay daggers + maximizing TA/QA on gear, and if that actually gets you better hits/sec

Praxidikai has 211 delay, compared to dual wielding a pair of 150 delay daggers, it's a non trivial delay reduction...

How much DA+TA+QA can we stack up, assuming we are targeting content where defenses don't matter?

The only part I care to comment on is Merc Kris

As it's your intent, that's your offhand (or mainhand because doing those trials is a waste of effort, and offhand ridill)

It's not worth getting involved in a will be 20 page argument about anything TH related

only your first hit can proc th, so the best option is a 150 delay dagger Jugo Kukri +1 single wielded with max delay reduction

if you're worried about mob hp, beestinger

/thread

Does enspell conflict with TH proc, or will TH proc always take priority (when it happens) over the 100% wind damage AE? I never liked AE weapons because I don't really understand order of operations and hate conflicting effects (Sambas, Enspells, Auspice etc)

Would've assumed TH takes priority, but I haven't actually verified. Shouldn't be very hard to verify. Take the dagger out and SA/TA/feint a few times. If no proc, I guess you're stuck with blitto needle?

I was just curious. Jugo might be a weaker enspell tier though, and TH is their native skill, so perhaps it does take priority.

We ran into this in Odyssey once on an Ongo KI1 where we had both RDM + DNC (for Haste Samba and SC creation) and realized the Enspell from RDM always took priority over Samba. But I've never seen a page lay out what the priority of additional effects are.

This is genuinely super good info to know, and yeah I totally missed that on the wiki page.

So single wielding a 150 delay dagger, and then having a dancer main in the party (either a trust or an alt), gets us I believe almost capped on attack speed. I am not aware of any option other than perhaps a corsair using Blitzer roll to get us that last 1.25% or whatever we need. Theoretically worth it though due to the exponential nature of attack rate.

Im actually having trouble finding info on the wiki on how blitzer's roll actually calculates its delay reduction in the total equation.

Like, assuming I have 68.75% haste, how much of a blitzer's roll do I need to cap attack rate. Is it actually 11.25%?

Can I assume with a Rostam + Tricorne, any roll (including unlucky) caps my attack speed if I have capped magic/gear haste? (1+3+8 = 12%)

Just keep in mind that sneak attack and trick attack have a dramatically higher chance of proccing a TH level increase. Fast melee hits are fine, but I wouldn’t recommend single wielding just for it. Twashtar and mpu hand rings delay is 178 which is still very low even for a dagger. If you wanna offhand jugo, or if you have it, air knife go right ahead. But maiming a proper weapon is always still a good idea.

You lose the dual wield bonus single wielding anyway…. I doubt single wielding even has a better proc rate. The first swing of both main and offhand have a chance to prove after all. Triple attack prices are associative with both setups and font change that consideration.

Outside of JA

Does critical or in the middle of a triple attack have an effect?
Can it happen on off hand?

This seems to potentially be counter to what Thorny/Wiki are stating.

> Treasure Hunter can only proc on the first hit of an attack round.

So based on that, dual wield adds nothing. DA/TA/QA/OAT also add nothing.

So ideally you only want to single wield and hit 80% delay reduction cap with just a 150 delay dagger (or jugo kukri+1 if it doesnt hit too hard)

I also wanna try out experimenting with capping my crit chance (so pretty much just stacking a buncha mummu gear and etc)

I have no proof that crits boost TH proc rate, but it feels like every single time I have procced TH12+, it was on a crit. Hard to say though cuz my crit rate is inherently high as it is, so statistically speaking any given hit could just be a crit anyways...

Noentheless, its not like there's anything better to stack.

See above, wiki line (which I myself had missed)

> Treasure Hunter can only proc on the first hit of an attack round.

Crits though I also wanna know if anyone has info on.

That neither fits wiki nor what I've observed in any of my tests. Do you have a source?

Ah, brilliant, Thorny I see you included tracking Crit vs non Crit proc rates in your findings, and it definitely looks like there's no statistical difference between the two, I appreciate you tracking that for us!

Post in question (which the wiki references)
https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/55788/treasure-hunter-proc-rate-testing-th-8-versus-14/7/#3688687

So I guess I just use Malignance gear tbh /shrug

A majority of these noticed TH procs take place while using SA or TA with Feint when usable. So the eyeball test is very flawed there.
Also the white damage procs happen under capped haste scenarios, where the attack rounds get very blurred without third party tools to draw the lines. Another case where the eyeball test will fail miserably.

If youre truly concerned about raising TH: SA hit, TA hit, use feint when its up, and dont do any other damage.

Thats incredibly slower than also doing white damage >_>

The discussion is around capping TH as fast as possible not as safe as possible lol

Funnily enough, with a cor in the party, you could at least leverage a well timed Random Deal and Wild Card to at least try and pop Feint up to 4 times in a row!

Currently my strat looks like:

1. Wear tanky gear, Nyame or malignance, + Null gear, to just avoid random meva related "haha stun/para/terror" garbage that slows us down
2. Blitzer's roll + Joachim + Koru Moru to cap attack speed
3. Single wield a 150 delay dagger, or, Jugo Kukri+1 if the target can take the damage and you can hit TH14 before killing it
4. If you wanna get extra sweaty (and not just AKF it), abuse Wild Card + Random Deal to try and proc Feint... Four times in a row? Yeah I guess theoretically you can reset its cooldown four times if you hit everything (Base -> Random Deal -> Wild Card -> Random Deal Again)

Could be up to 4 entire sets of feint in a row which definitely helps you cap up to TH14 much faster.

Youre either killing fast and accepting TH9~10 or youre killing slow and going for TH14. Luck based exceptions apply.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

With all due respect... what are you talking about lol

Is there a soft timer-lockout on TH procs after a certain level? Or do we have rough estimates on the proc % for each tier? I've had instances where I've gone from TH8-10/11 relatively quickly (like within 10-15 attack rounds), but then wouldn't get another proc for another several minutes later. Its clear the proc rate drops as the level increases, but wondering if time is also a factor (i.e. you can't go from 11->12 until at least 180 seconds have passed, 12->13 = 360s/etc). I've never run into a situation where I could hit 13-14 within, say, 5 minutes, for example.

Thorny's data here showed an upgrade from TH13 to TH14 in as short as 14 hits (I think thats what those numbers mean?)

https://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/55788/treasure-hunter-proc-rate-testing-th-8-versus-14/7/#3688687

Doesn't seem to be a soft lockout if you look at my data from the thread Soralin linked. Appropriate amount of low end outliers exist on every tier.

Youre asking how to reliably get TH 14 as fast as possible.

Its the slow SA/TA, no other damage.

You said “no cuz its slow kill speed”

I said you cant have fast kills and reliable access to TH14. Most of the time, youre gonna kill your target before you see TH11.

I see where the confusion occurred. I did not say that. I said:


"Slower" refers to speed to hit TH14, not kill speed.

Based on what?
And dont say your eyeball test.

Thornys linked tests (if its the one I think it is based on the url, I didnt click link) were in regards to TH delta and proc rate, if wearing more than TH+5 in equipment mattered, as the orinal TH delta tests were done back when players could only wear +3 in equipment. He didnt test proc rate of SA/TA vs white damage.

In what scenario would not proccing TH and facing away from the enemy somehow cap TH faster than... proccing TH?

Proccing TH is going to proc TH faster than... not proccing it.

Thats... fairly straightforward logic.

I have zero clue what you are getting at in your posts, you either seem to be operating under a big misunderstanding of the context, or something.

Oh i dont know why I would suggest SA/TA and turn

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Treasure_Hunter


Theres no source, so I dont know if this was from patch notes when SE added the proc system or someone came to this conclusion via testing.


But its not a statement I pulled out of my *** randomly, thanks

Thats the part that matters.

Why would you turn around instead of continuing to melee and have even more of a chance to proc TH? >_>;

Pretty sure the miscommunication here is Nynja saying that if you melee it without SA/TA you're going to kill it. Soralin is assuming it'll live forever and he should still be trying for procs when SA/TA are down. Both are correct in some circumstances.

That makes sense, though the context is us discussing around using 150 delay low dmg daggers (IE Beestinger)

So it should be safe to assume the enemy wont die, even on softer targets like HNM Kings I have been able to pretty reliably hit TH14 well before it dies, and that was with what I now know were suboptimal gear setups. I assume with this aforementioned better setup I'd cap even faster (IE not dual wielding)