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Soo... About the Converts dmg to MP on AF feet...
 Ragnarok.Martel
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3052
By Ragnarok.Martel 2025-06-14 18:41:28
It was pointed out to me recently that the new description on the +4 Artifact feet says: Quote: Converts 10% of Phys. dam. taken while blocking to MP Excuse me? "While Blocking"?
The EN description of Reverence Leggings +3 simply says: Quote: Converts 10% of damage taken to MP No mention of blocking being required... Is this a new thing? Is it another one of SE's ridiculous localization mistakes? We've seen a lot of them recently... If it is correct on the +4... do the +3 feet also require blocks?
So, I went and tested the +3 feet. Countered PLD's auto-refresh using a stage 2 prime wep(Greatsword, since I upgraded both Sword and shield, already), and let a mob slap me around... No MP recovery at all. Taking 100~ dmg hits. Nada.
Rearranged my gear a bit so I could counter my auto-refresh while still wearing a shield and tried blocking. I have a little function to report any MP changes in chat, I made for previous testing back when.
And a text/log version for when the image hosting inevitably fails one day. Code [17:49:45]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 89 points of damage.
[17:49:50]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 87 points of damage.
[17:49:55]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 115 points of damage.
[17:50:00]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 93 points of damage.
[17:50:04]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 86 points of damage.
[17:50:04]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 81 points of damage.
[17:50:09]MP:+3.
[17:50:09]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 38 points of damage.
[17:50:12]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 25 points of damage.
[17:50:12]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 28 points of damage.
[17:50:12]MP:+4.
[17:50:16]MP:+3.
[17:50:16]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 36 points of damage.
[17:50:20]MP:+1.
[17:50:20]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 18 points of damage.
[17:50:24]MP:+3.
[17:50:24]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 31 points of damage.
[17:50:29]MP:+2.
[17:50:29]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 28 points of damage. Can match the hits to the MP message via timestamps. Not that it's hard to tell. You can see that during the unblocked hits.. nothing. Blocked hits, MP.
So... As the new description on the +4 says.. Only works on blocked hits. Which extends to the +3 version as well. And based on some digging around, I don't think this is new. Well, unless they recently updated the JP text for the +3 and +2 then updated JPwiki... Not sure how to check page history on JPwiki so I can't be certain.
The JPwiki page for AF feet+3 says: Quote: 盾発動時に被物理ダメージの10%をMPに変換 Run through google translate that's: Quote: When the shield is activated, 10% of physical damage taken is converted into MP. So.. it's pretty likely that it's always been like this. We've just been the long term victims of more poor localization. And... no one appears to have noticed on the EN side. I certainly didn't. And I've actually tested converts dmg to MP stuff before, on PLD even. Didn't notice. <,<;
On the bright side... I don't use AF feet much anyway. And even with the upgrade to +4, I don't think I'd be likely to use them anymore often regardless of this discovery.
 Lakshmi.ByrthVIP
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6432
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2025-06-16 06:01:34
Do they stack with Ochain? It would be kind of funny if they didn't.
Restoring MP on shield block makes vibe-sense, but when shield blocks result in single digit damage (a lot of the time), zee booties, zey do nahtheeng. They should have made it 1MP per block or something.
By Felgarr 2025-06-16 06:44:35
Do they stack with Ochain? It would be kind of funny if they didn't.
Restoring MP on shield block makes vibe-sense, but when shield blocks result in single digit damage (a lot of the time), zee booties, zey do nahtheeng. They should have made it 1MP per block or something.
If we had to index on using the feet to their full potential, what's the best way to maximize MP returned? Would this gear set have: maximum block rate (Shield Skill, Block chance, etc) and zero Damage Taken Minus? ...(or perhaps even Damage Taken Plus)?
(Also, yes, does it stake with Ochain?)
By Shichishito 2025-06-16 06:53:43
I'd say as compensation the english client side from now on gets the effect as "Converts 10% of damage taken to MP" while the japanese client can stick to their "Converts 10% of Phys. dam. taken while blocking to MP" version?
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 6432
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2025-06-16 07:50:31
I think there's kind of no reason to maximize MP returned at the cost of damage taken with these shoes. Cure IV restores ~1200 HP with Majesty and costs 88 MP. Without the discrete/rounding problem, that means you'd get 120 MP back when you take 1200 damage and be able to endlessly heal yourself (and any party members in range.)
So rounding up instead of down would have been another acceptable solution if they wanted to keep things in the HP <> MP exchange space.
Ragnarok.Martel
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3052
By Ragnarok.Martel 2025-06-16 10:00:39
Do they stack with Ochain? It would be kind of funny if they didn't.
Restoring MP on shield block makes vibe-sense, but when shield blocks result in single digit damage (a lot of the time), zee booties, zey do nahtheeng. They should have made it 1MP per block or something. So, not surprisingly, the feet do stack with Ochain, and additively into the same term.
The interesting thing though is that while looking at some max converts dmg to MP hits, I noticed I was getting 1 MP less than expected sometimes.
As an example, with 63% converts dmg to MP, on a 61 dmg hit, I got 37 MP.
61*0.63=38.43 floored to 38.
Should have got 38, but I got 37. However, if you factor Block converts and regular converts separately, then add the results together it works out.
Block convert:
Ochain(99):35%
AF feet+3:10%
Total:45%
Regular convert:
Empy head+3: 8%
Rudianos cape: 5%
Ethereal earring: 3%
Flume belt+1:2%
Total: 18%
61*0.45=27.45 floored to 27
61*0.18=10.98 floored to 10.
27+10=37. Which matches the observed MP recovery.
Honestly this is not great, cause it's making the flooring loss even worse.
I also went and got a few more samples just to be sure.
So, data. Code +-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| DMG | MP Observed | Total vert | MP | BlockVert | MP | Vert | MP | Separate | Combined | Observed | Combined Match | Separate match |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 29 | 18 | 63% | 18 | 45% | 13 | 18% | 5 | 18 | 18 | 18 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 61 | 37 | 63% | 38 | 45% | 27 | 18% | 10 | 37 | 38 | 37 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 14 | 8 | 63% | 8 | 45% | 6 | 18% | 2 | 8 | 8 | 8 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 21 | 12 | 63% | 13 | 45% | 9 | 18% | 3 | 12 | 13 | 12 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 4 | 1 | 63% | 2 | 45% | 1 | 18% | 0 | 1 | 2 | 1 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 3 | 1 | 63% | 1 | 45% | 1 | 18% | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 7 | 4 | 63% | 4 | 45% | 3 | 18% | 1 | 4 | 4 | 4 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 14 | 8 | 63% | 8 | 45% | 6 | 18% | 2 | 8 | 8 | 8 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 15 | 8 | 63% | 9 | 45% | 6 | 18% | 2 | 8 | 9 | 8 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 16 | 9 | 63% | 10 | 45% | 7 | 18% | 2 | 9 | 10 | 9 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 19 | 11 | 63% | 11 | 45% | 8 | 18% | 3 | 11 | 11 | 11 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 6 | 3 | 63% | 3 | 45% | 2 | 18% | 1 | 3 | 3 | 3 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 8 | 4 | 63% | 5 | 45% | 3 | 18% | 1 | 4 | 5 | 4 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 9 | 5 | 63% | 5 | 45% | 4 | 18% | 1 | 5 | 5 | 5 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 11 | 5 | 63% | 6 | 45% | 4 | 18% | 1 | 5 | 6 | 5 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 37 | 22 | 63% | 23 | 45% | 16 | 18% | 6 | 22 | 23 | 22 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 31 | 18 | 63% | 19 | 45% | 13 | 18% | 5 | 18 | 19 | 18 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 21 | 12 | 63% | 13 | 45% | 9 | 18% | 3 | 12 | 13 | 12 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 39 | 24 | 63% | 24 | 45% | 17 | 18% | 7 | 24 | 24 | 24 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 25 | 15 | 63% | 15 | 45% | 11 | 18% | 4 | 15 | 15 | 15 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 36 | 22 | 63% | 22 | 45% | 16 | 18% | 6 | 22 | 22 | 22 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 24 | 14 | 63% | 15 | 45% | 10 | 18% | 4 | 14 | 15 | 14 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 35 | 21 | 63% | 22 | 45% | 15 | 18% | 6 | 21 | 22 | 21 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 24 | 14 | 63% | 15 | 45% | 10 | 18% | 4 | 14 | 15 | 14 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 33 | 19 | 63% | 20 | 45% | 14 | 18% | 5 | 19 | 20 | 19 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 34 | 21 | 63% | 21 | 45% | 15 | 18% | 6 | 21 | 21 | 21 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 26 | 15 | 63% | 16 | 45% | 11 | 18% | 4 | 15 | 16 | 15 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 25 | 15 | 63% | 15 | 45% | 11 | 18% | 4 | 15 | 15 | 15 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 69 | 43 | 63% | 43 | 45% | 31 | 18% | 12 | 43 | 43 | 43 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 34 | 21 | 63% | 21 | 45% | 15 | 18% | 6 | 21 | 21 | 21 | Pass | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 26 | 15 | 63% | 16 | 45% | 11 | 18% | 4 | 15 | 16 | 15 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+
| 31 | 18 | 63% | 19 | 45% | 13 | 18% | 5 | 18 | 19 | 18 | Fail | Pass |
+-----+-------------+------------+----+-----------+----+------+----+----------+----------+----------+----------------+----------------+ All samples matched the separate term method.
TLDR: "Block converts dmg to MP", and "Converts dmg to MP" are different terms calculated separately.
By Felgarr 2025-06-19 10:03:27
I think there's kind of no reason to maximize MP returned at the cost of damage taken with these shoes. Cure IV restores ~1200 HP with Majesty and costs 88 MP. Without the discrete/rounding problem, that means you'd get 120 MP back when you take 1200 damage and be able to endlessly heal yourself (and any party members in range.)
So rounding up instead of down would have been another acceptable solution if they wanted to keep things in the HP <> MP exchange space.
I understand what you're saying, but the sake of theory crafting. Let's say we did make this trade-off: Maximum MP return on blocked Damage with no Damage Taken gear.
What else about Paladin could benefit (no matter how marginal or ridiculous) in this situation?
In May 2021, Reprisal used to have a damage cap that would result in it wearing before the buff duration timer. This has since been eliminated ...but does the Reprisal still have a Damage Dealth cap?
Aside from Reprisal and Damage Dealt due to blocking, what else can we do to take advantage of this situation?
Is there a unique subjob choice that might benefit from PLD taking increased damage?
FYI: I'm not desperate or eager to make this work per se and I can't imagine the returned Reprisal damage to be too noteworthy ...but I am interested to put our collective minds together to see what might provide a novel, niche benefit, no matter how marginal or speculative.
Also, yes, I've already considered Homepoint Warp speed +1000%. :)
By Nariont 2025-06-19 10:15:39
its a catch 22 really, you take more dmg to get mp back to likely use cures on yourself because now you're taking more damage to get more MP.
imo should be viewing it as the equivalent if a refresh 1~3 piece depending on speed of enemy swings/how much dmg you take from blocked hits that can occasionally spike from a TP move being used
Ragnarok.Martel
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3052
By Ragnarok.Martel 2025-06-19 15:41:13
In May 2021, Reprisal used to have a damage cap that would result in it wearing before the buff duration timer. This has since been eliminated ...but does the Reprisal still have a Damage Dealth cap? No. As you've stated, the thing that cap did was make reprisal wear off. It doesn't wear anymore for dealing too much spikes damage. What are you expecting it to do now? Just suddenly start doing 0 spikes damage?
Anyway, I've played around with maximizing spikes damage, and in some of those experiments I was doing 1k+ dmg per spike on a large group of mobs. I killed a pull of apex mobs with just spikes(took freaking forever though. Not worth.) <,<; The cap is gone, and doesn't exist in some new form. Reprisal spikes just aren't powerful enough to need some sort of limitation that way.
The real issue with how the feet really work is that it gives them every MP convert related problem that Ochain has. Blocked hits often hitting for 0. Having to choose between reducing mob TP gain via 0 dmg hits, and getting MP. And the feet don't work on non-phyiscal or unblockable damage sources. So magic/breath attacks, ranged attacks, and the occasional 1k needles type attack.
The only other reason I can think of to try to take more damage, would be using converts dmg to TP gear for Aminon. But that has nothing to do with the AF feet, since they won't convert MP on magical hits. -_-; And you'd probably just use Arke feet anyway for a little bit more converts dmg to TP.
[+]
Ragnarok.Martel
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3052
By Ragnarok.Martel 2025-07-15 11:40:45
This seems like a good place for this. Somewhat related.
I was digging through some JP blog posts looking for something else entirely, when I stumbled upon this post. leaguemili.com has some good stuff. This was a pretty old one from 2018.
Basically, they felt that they were getting unusually high amounts of MP back with Ochain when fighting a mob with a high dmg enspell effect. So they went and specifically tested it on an Avatar merit BC. They have huge enspell dmg on VD if you don't proc.
And they found that Ochain's converts dmg to MP effect was also procing on the en-dmg on blocked hits. This of course, made me go wtf, so I went and tried it myself.
Tested using the same MP reporting function I mentioned earlier in this thread. Balanced out my auto-refresh with Hannibal's sword(-3/tick) and refresh+2. +/-0.
Zero physical damage. Blocked hit. 106 MP return. 305 dmg*0.35=106.75. <,<;
The amount of MP I was getting back was actually hilarious. I had to spam cures to keep my MP pool from capping, which would prevent the MP reporting function.
And.. relevant to this thread, the AF feet also work this way.
90 damage. 10% converts. 9 MP. Yep.
Seems like once the block check is passed it just converts for all dmg on that hit. Ochain, I kinda get. That it only converts physical damage is... only implied by the fact that the hit itself has to be physical for you to block. But the +4 feet actually say physical damage. So it's a bit amusing that this works for them too.
This is, of course, extremely niche, but... Nice should you find your self getting chunked by an en effect. Though... I'd probably just wear Duban, or even Aegis in that case.
Leaguemili also brought up an interesting related thought, though they didn't test it. Would this suggest that you'd also convert the magic damage side of blocked hybrid WS? Physical hit, so you can block, with magic dmg attached to it after.. it's pretty similar to a melee hit with an enspell in some regards.
I haven't tested that one either. There aren't many mob WS that are confirmed to be Hybrid. But it's an interesting question.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-07-15 12:01:14
Looks like whoever at SE, did a lazy coding to just consider the entire hit "physical" when block is activated, regardless of what comes after it. Almost like a battlemod grouping condition where if the shield is activated, then convert to MP.
Also good to know this was revealed to us 7 years after the fact (thanks Martel for at least finding it!).
Lastly (question) - isn't the feet description a little redundant anyways? You can only block vs physical damage, so why do you need to mention the MP conversion occurs during physical damage taken while blocking? That seems like another unnecessary localization error. What does the JP version say? They probably simply mean "Converts damage taken to MP while blocking", which would have been immediately clear to anyone using them what the purpose was, and we probably may have found out about the additional effect thing a lot sooner too xD
Whoever made the +4 version glitched out when writing that description for sure
Ragnarok.Martel
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3052
By Ragnarok.Martel 2025-07-15 12:13:15
The JP versions of AF feet(+2~+4) appear to have always specified physical damage as well.
From JPwiki
Quote: 盾発動時に被物理ダメージの10%をMPに変換 Google translated
Quote: When Shield is activated, converts 10% of physical damage received into MP Interestingly, the JP description for Ochain's effect uses exactly the same description, value aside.
Quote: 盾発動時に被物理ダメージの25%をMPに変換 So while the EN description of Ochain doesn't mention phys damage, the JP does.
It was pointed out to me recently that the new description on the +4 Artifact feet says: Quote: Converts 10% of Phys. dam. taken while blocking to MP Excuse me? "While Blocking"?
The EN description of Reverence Leggings +3 simply says: Quote: Converts 10% of damage taken to MP No mention of blocking being required... Is this a new thing? Is it another one of SE's ridiculous localization mistakes? We've seen a lot of them recently... If it is correct on the +4... do the +3 feet also require blocks?
So, I went and tested the +3 feet. Countered PLD's auto-refresh using a stage 2 prime wep(Greatsword, since I upgraded both Sword and shield, already), and let a mob slap me around... No MP recovery at all. Taking 100~ dmg hits. Nada.
Rearranged my gear a bit so I could counter my auto-refresh while still wearing a shield and tried blocking. I have a little function to report any MP changes in chat, I made for previous testing back when.
And a text/log version for when the image hosting inevitably fails one day. Code [17:49:45]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 89 points of damage.
[17:49:50]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 87 points of damage.
[17:49:55]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 115 points of damage.
[17:50:00]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 93 points of damage.
[17:50:04]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 86 points of damage.
[17:50:04]The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 81 points of damage.
[17:50:09]MP:+3.
[17:50:09]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 38 points of damage.
[17:50:12]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 25 points of damage.
[17:50:12]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 28 points of damage.
[17:50:12]MP:+4.
[17:50:16]MP:+3.
[17:50:16]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 36 points of damage.
[17:50:20]MP:+1.
[17:50:20]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 18 points of damage.
[17:50:24]MP:+3.
[17:50:24]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 31 points of damage.
[17:50:29]MP:+2.
[17:50:29]Blocked! The Ashen・Tiger hits Martel for 28 points of damage. Can match the hits to the MP message via timestamps. Not that it's hard to tell. You can see that during the unblocked hits.. nothing. Blocked hits, MP.
So... As the new description on the +4 says.. Only works on blocked hits. Which extends to the +3 version as well. And based on some digging around, I don't think this is new. Well, unless they recently updated the JP text for the +3 and +2 then updated JPwiki... Not sure how to check page history on JPwiki so I can't be certain.
The JPwiki page for AF feet+3 says: Quote: 盾発動時に被物理ダメージの10%をMPに変換 Run through google translate that's: Quote: When the shield is activated, 10% of physical damage taken is converted into MP. So.. it's pretty likely that it's always been like this. We've just been the long term victims of more poor localization. And... no one appears to have noticed on the EN side. I certainly didn't. And I've actually tested converts dmg to MP stuff before, on PLD even. Didn't notice. <,<;
On the bright side... I don't use AF feet much anyway. And even with the upgrade to +4, I don't think I'd be likely to use them anymore often regardless of this discovery.
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