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June 2025 Version Update
By SimonSes 2025-07-09 11:58:10
Always doing less than 10k won't help. The BGWiki is a bit inaccurate here, the DT increase is cumulative not per hit. 10k is just where the breakpoints are. Meaning two 5k hits or ten 1k hits will also have the same effect as one 10k hit.
How 99k Kaustra works? Applies DT almost 10 times? or if you exceed 10k by 89k it stil counts as one DT increase and another instance of damage is required to start accumulating another 10k?
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Iamaman 2025-07-09 12:15:18
I don't think we ever figured out how SE intended us to kill it?
I still really wish they'd publish a video like they did with AV on how this fight is intended to go. I can't help but think it has some similar problem where the intended strategy they designed the fight around just doesn't work.
[+]
Server: Asura
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Posts: 1484
By Asura.Pergatory 2025-07-09 12:22:30
How 99k Kaustra works? Applies DT almost 10 times? or if you exceed 10k by 89k it stil counts as one DT increase and another instance of damage is required to start accumulating another 10k? Yes it's the first option. A 99k Kaustra will increase the DT by the same amount as nine or ten 10k nukes. That's why the second Kaustra will often be much lower, around 10k lower damage. By the time you reach your fourth Kaustra, it's often down to like mid 60s. That wouldn't happen from just dealing over 10k three times.
The reason Kaustra works as a strategy is because only that initial hit increases DT. Then it continues doing damage every tick without increasing DT further.
By Kaffy 2025-07-09 12:48:29
I don't think we ever figured out how SE intended us to kill it?
I still really wish they'd publish a video like they did with AV on how this fight is intended to go. I can't help but think it has some similar problem where the intended strategy they designed the fight around just doesn't work.
this has huge potential, if done right. I would love to see "official" hints/tips videos for things like V25 or master trials. it would generate a lot of interest among people who normally don't even attempt these types of content. too bad the NA community team can't even handle ambuscade without help.
By Taint 2025-07-09 12:54:09
My group needs some of that 99999 Kaustra. I think our best is 86k.
And Kaustra DoT is 25% of its initial damage. We did a 46k Kaustra with Macc down last night with 2 adds up and it barely moved his HP each tic.
Pergatory is 100% right about the 10k. Any hit matters except DoT tics.
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By Dodik 2025-07-09 14:07:19
I think it's fair to say the "DoTs don't count towards DT" is an unintended consequence.
Them not patching it probably has a lot to do with no one beating it without the DoT method.
 Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2025-07-09 14:11:49
Slip damage isn't "done to" it so it doesn't count. Indirect vs direct.
I don't think mobs that have the mechanic reacts to dot tics. Like mastop. Or that delve matamata. Or The delve cracklaw.
By Veydal1 2025-07-09 17:25:52
This thread has run its course so I don't mind continuing the derail -
My group also noticed a big difference between using Noctohelix after landing Kaustra, and using Geohelix. We saw much better subsequent Kaustra numbers after using Geohelix instead. Can't say for sure if this was actually the case, but maybe repeating elements is punished too? I can't offer too much for comparison, because we cleared on the first (or second?) attempt when switching to Geohelix instead.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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Posts: 3420
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2025-07-09 20:24:35
What do you mean "switching to geohelix instead"? Geohelix doesn't do the same SC as Noctohelix. Noctohelix makes gravitation (which then turns into Darkness), Geohelix would make another Scission (which is a dead end for making darkness-based SCs).
What was your SC...?
That aside, here are some numbers from our winning/almost winning Bumbas, and also one of our reference videos from Velner:
Got to 2%: 92k, 66k, 73k, 66k (297k total, started at 77%)
Win: 97k (Darksday), 86k (Darksday), 75k, 67k (325k total, started at 75%)
Got to 1%: 90k, 82k, 60k, 40k (272k total, started at 68%)
Velner: 96k, 86k, 60k, 72k (314k total, started at 75%)
Should give some reference points to compare against.
 Asura.Aragan
By Asura.Aragan 2025-07-09 22:45:36
Always doing less than 10k won't help. The BGWiki is a bit inaccurate here, the DT increase is cumulative not per hit. 10k is just where the breakpoints are. Meaning two 5k hits or ten 1k hits will also have the same effect as one 10k hit.
This is why it's crucial for everyone to remove as much magic damage as possible from their activities, like the RDM's Impact can't be doing 2k damage it needs to be doing a few hundred at most.
I see only three possibilities for how SE intended us to approach the fight:
1. DoT, the way we're doing it more or less.
2. By proccing him consistently (which is damn near impossible to do a few times in a row, let alone for an entire fight)
3. They didn't want us to beat him. This was to be the new AV.
The liars have arrived... lol
It's u story say :
Aragan who sent me a private message asking about the dangerous secret, lol. I told him that this secret is sacred, and no one can ask about it. Please stay away from me, lol.
I want to know how you could publish a private and first time i talk with him , lie in it, and publish it. This was the first time i talk with him, and it will be our last, of course. Were you incredulous that I was talking to you, for example? we was in same linkshell
Carbuncle.Maletaru
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Posts: 3420
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2025-07-09 23:26:10
Always doing less than 10k won't help. The BGWiki is a bit inaccurate here, the DT increase is cumulative not per hit. 10k is just where the breakpoints are. Meaning two 5k hits or ten 1k hits will also have the same effect as one 10k hit.
This is why it's crucial for everyone to remove as much magic damage as possible from their activities, like the RDM's Impact can't be doing 2k damage it needs to be doing a few hundred at most.
I see only three possibilities for how SE intended us to approach the fight:
1. DoT, the way we're doing it more or less.
2. By proccing him consistently (which is damn near impossible to do a few times in a row, let alone for an entire fight)
3. They didn't want us to beat him. This was to be the new AV.
The liars have arrived... lol
It's u story say :
Aragan who sent me a private message asking about the dangerous secret, lol. I told him that this secret is sacred, and no one can ask about it. Please stay away from me, lol.
I want to know how you could publish a private conversation between you and me, lie in it, and publish it. This was the first conversation between us, and it will be our last, of course. Were you incredulous that I was talking to you, for example? we was in same linkshell
As usual, I don't believe a word you're saying, but also...
Your writing is so incredibly bad, I genuinely, not even joking, have no idea what you're even trying to claim here. The subjects are all over the place, it's like 3rd-3rd person talking about something. I'm normally not a fan of AI but like...can you just throw this garbage through some translation service before posting it?
Leviathan.Supernads
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 66
By Leviathan.Supernads 2025-07-09 23:46:25
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »The liars have arrived... lol
It's u story say :
Aragan who sent me a private message asking about the dangerous secret, lol. I told him that this secret is sacred, and no one can ask about it. Please stay away from me, lol.
I want to know how you could publish a private conversation between you and me, lie in it, and publish it. This was the first conversation between us, and it will be our last, of course. Were you incredulous that I was talking to you, for example? we was in same linkshell
As usual, I don't believe a word you're saying, but also...
Your writing is so incredibly bad, I genuinely, not even joking, have no idea what you're even trying to claim here. The subjects are all over the place, it's like 3rd-3rd person talking about something. I'm normally not a fan of AI but like...can you just throw this garbage through some translation service before posting it?
I had AI rewrite in the voice of Myakov. I still don't know what it means but at least it is more entertaining.
Ahhh, the stage is set, and the liars take their place under the spotlight... how utterly predictable. Lol, as the commonfolk say.
Now, your tale—such a tale! You speak of Aragan, yes? The one who dared to slink into my inbox, whispering of some 'dangerous secret'? Pah! I told him, with all the flair and dignity befitting a man of my stature:
‘That secret is sacred. You shall not touch it. Begone, and do not cast your shadow upon me again.’ Lol, naturally.
But now! Now! I find myself pondering: how is it that a private exchange—a fleeting whisper between us—was twisted, tarnished, and tossed into the public eye? And worse still... you lied. Our first encounter, and—rest assured—it shall be our last. Bravo, truly.
Tell me—were you simply shocked that one such as I would grace you with a conversation? Humbled, perhaps? Starstruck? We were in the same linkshell, true, but not even proximity can bestow class or character. Curtain falls.
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By Veydal1 2025-07-10 00:02:59
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »What do you mean "switching to geohelix instead"? Geohelix doesn't do the same SC as Noctohelix. Noctohelix makes gravitation (which then turns into Darkness), Geohelix would make another Scission (which is a dead end for making darkness-based SCs).
What was your SC...?
That aside, here are some numbers from our winning/almost winning Bumbas, and also one of our reference videos from Velner:
Got to 2%: 92k, 66k, 73k, 66k (297k total, started at 77%)
Win: 97k (Darksday), 86k (Darksday), 75k, 67k (325k total, started at 75%)
Got to 1%: 90k, 82k, 60k, 40k (272k total, started at 68%)
Velner: 96k, 86k, 60k, 72k (314k total, started at 75%)
Should give some reference points to compare against.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. We were using creating a SC to burst Noctohelix II after landing Kaustra. We switched to creating gravitation and bursting Geohelix II instead and saw a noticeable increase in Kaustra damage at the end. Unfortunately, I have filters so I don't have the exact numbers. Take it with a grain of salt as it was 1 (or 2) and done. Win was on Watersday.
[+]
By K123 2025-07-10 03:54:18
Always doing less than 10k won't help. The BGWiki is a bit inaccurate here, the DT increase is cumulative not per hit. 10k is just where the breakpoints are. Meaning two 5k hits or ten 1k hits will also have the same effect as one 10k hit.
This is why it's crucial for everyone to remove as much magic damage as possible from their activities, like the RDM's Impact can't be doing 2k damage it needs to be doing a few hundred at most.
I see only three possibilities for how SE intended us to approach the fight:
1. DoT, the way we're doing it more or less.
2. By proccing him consistently (which is damn near impossible to do a few times in a row, let alone for an entire fight)
3. They didn't want us to beat him. This was to be the new AV.
The liars have arrived... lol
It's u story say :
Aragan who sent me a private message asking about the dangerous secret, lol. I told him that this secret is sacred, and no one can ask about it. Please stay away from me, lol.
I want to know how you could publish a private conversation between you and me, lie in it, and publish it. This was the first conversation between us, and it will be our last, of course. Were you incredulous that I was talking to you, for example? we was in same linkshell How do you access crack in Saudi Arabia?
Asura.Aragan
By Asura.Aragan 2025-07-10 07:30:49
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Always doing less than 10k won't help. The BGWiki is a bit inaccurate here, the DT increase is cumulative not per hit. 10k is just where the breakpoints are. Meaning two 5k hits or ten 1k hits will also have the same effect as one 10k hit.
This is why it's crucial for everyone to remove as much magic damage as possible from their activities, like the RDM's Impact can't be doing 2k damage it needs to be doing a few hundred at most.
I see only three possibilities for how SE intended us to approach the fight:
1. DoT, the way we're doing it more or less.
2. By proccing him consistently (which is damn near impossible to do a few times in a row, let alone for an entire fight)
3. They didn't want us to beat him. This was to be the new AV.
The liars have arrived... lol
It's u story say :
Aragan who sent me a private message asking about the dangerous secret, lol. I told him that this secret is sacred, and no one can ask about it. Please stay away from me, lol.
I want to know how you could publish a private conversation between you and me, lie in it, and publish it. This was the first conversation between us, and it will be our last, of course. Were you incredulous that I was talking to you, for example? we was in same linkshell
As usual, I don't believe a word you're saying, but also...
Your writing is so incredibly bad, I genuinely, not even joking, have no idea what you're even trying to claim here. The subjects are all over the place, it's like 3rd-3rd person talking about something. I'm normally not a fan of AI but like...can you just throw this garbage through some translation service before posting it?
He tells everyone if you talk to him.. It was the first time I talked to him.. I found him making a post in the forum about what we talked about and he lied about everything. I didn't ask him just one question, what is your strategy in fighting only .. Be careful of him, he will publish what u say to him publish everything..
By LightningHelix 2025-07-10 07:54:03
I don't think we ever figured out how SE intended us to kill it?
I still really wish they'd publish a video like they did with AV on how this fight is intended to go. I can't help but think it has some similar problem where the intended strategy they designed the fight around just doesn't work.
this has huge potential, if done right. I would love to see "official" hints/tips videos for things like V25 or master trials. it would generate a lot of interest among people who normally don't even attempt these types of content. too bad the NA community team can't even handle ambuscade without help. yeah, people still talk about the AV video (even if mostly as a meme because it was certainly deliberately opaque) - I think it would be fantastic to get more like that, stir up some community interest
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10279
By Asura.Saevel 2025-07-10 07:56:42
I don't think we ever figured out how SE intended us to kill it?
I still really wish they'd publish a video like they did with AV on how this fight is intended to go. I can't help but think it has some similar problem where the intended strategy they designed the fight around just doesn't work.
this has huge potential, if done right. I would love to see "official" hints/tips videos for things like V25 or master trials. it would generate a lot of interest among people who normally don't even attempt these types of content. too bad the NA community team can't even handle ambuscade without help. yeah, people still talk about the AV video (even if mostly as a meme because it was certainly deliberately opaque) - I think it would be fantastic to get more like that, stir up some community interest
It'll be a video with players doing random emotes and zoomed into chat.
[+]
By benjamus 2025-07-10 09:56:39
even blocking this Aragorn kid I still have to see his word diarrhea in people's quotes :(
lgbtqia2s+ mods plz halp
[+]
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-07-10 10:22:25
I don't think we ever figured out how SE intended us to kill it?
I still really wish they'd publish a video like they did with AV on how this fight is intended to go. I can't help but think it has some similar problem where the intended strategy they designed the fight around just doesn't work.
Mischief broke this down in detail years ago regarding Denounce. Many other people feel the move is completely bugged too.
There's a couple reasons why I'm fairly certain Denounce's insta-kill is unintended behavior:
1) Those other insta-kill moves you mentioned are all on set timers. You KNOW going in that Setting the Stage is every 3 minutes, and Vivisection is a little over 3 minutes. You can plan around that. Bane of Tartarus is a little weirder, as procs mess with the timer, but it IS still on a timer. Not only is Denounce completely random while Bumba is in fetter mode, it can be the very first TP move it does after fetter mode engages, which is an unavoidable death unless you have Perfect Defense up. He can also just refuse to do it at all. If it's intended to be an instant wipe punishment for not breaking fetter mode, why can he use it two seconds after entering it?
2) While in fetter mode, Bumba always uses TP moves in pairs. If Denounce is the first TP move in a pair, it kills everyone in range instantly. If it's the second, it functions exactly like Sajj'aka's version and brings everyone to critical HP without killing them. Why would this be intended behavior?
Honestly, I think the only reason Denounce hasn't been fixed yet is because people were still winning anyway - whereas with pre-nerf Mboze, nobody was beating it through Tiiimbeeer without TP suppression strats until it was hotfixed. We'll see what happens when more people get to V25 Bumba, I guess.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1484
By Asura.Pergatory 2025-07-10 10:31:37
LOL
Aragan if you want to be respected, you also have to respect others.
You called me a liar in our first conversation, for saying that I don't use tools to automatically re-apply buffs before they wear off. You refused to believe, because it seems you cannot imagine a world where people actually play the game instead of automating it. I lost all respect for you at that point. Now you call me a liar on public forums too. I'll be blocking you, don't expect any further responses from me.
[+]
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-07-10 10:43:58
I lost all respect for you at that point
There's no way you had any ounce of respect for this guy from the beginning, but I respect you keeping it classy like Dudley from Street Fighter (you still my guy, Perg)
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1074
By Asura.Iamaman 2025-07-10 12:37:50
Mischief broke this down in detail years ago regarding Denounce. Many other people feel the move is completely bugged too.
If it's intended to be an instant wipe punishment for not breaking fetter mode, why can he use it two seconds after entering it?
Maybe I'm confusing it with something else, but I thought Denounce was survivable if only a few players were in range? I thought it was based on the # of players the move would hit, is that not correct?
It always seemed to me like the intent was to have players strategize around the timer and run out of range before it went off, while one or two remain in range to proc. I do agree the inconsistency of it is kindof dumb but I had thought players were doing this by leaving two in range to proc and the rest runs out of range. I tried to get some folks to test this out at v20 but wasn't successful in doing so
Either way, I agree on the timing aspect. They don't give you much time to proc once the window opens, which is pretty absurd given the amount of damage done.
I've also wondered if they intended on having the DT effect reduced/erased when procced but that's bugged, also
 Asura.Shiraj
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1133
By Asura.Shiraj 2025-07-10 13:20:35
Honestly even if they wanted you to proc Bumba, it's miserable to do it. I remember for my first ever v15 Bumba (I think it had 4 minute timer for aura?) and before the Savage zerg was tried and tested, we had a setup coordinated to do all procs + magic damage kill him with Leaden etc and even with a 4 minute timer between auras it didn't feel like enough time. (Without Bumbanounce addon we'd die before the visual cue for the aura popped up because that was another bug that got fixed and we'd get Denounced before we knew aura was up. -_-)
Now add 1 minute timer between auras and the regen of 1-2 adds AND the cumulative DT build up that may have happened while trying to proc by accident. It's just a poorly designed, unthought about fight imo. v15 was barely ok with the proc method let alone v25.
I have wondered though, I haven't tested/saw testing, if Earthen Armor + Scherzo combo works on Denounce, I'd assume it doesn't, but can't assume ig.
Edit: also remember the bug where the elements he absorbed were incorrect also? this fight has had so many bugs that I wouldn't be surprised if more still exist...
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1074
By Asura.Iamaman 2025-07-10 13:29:34
Yea, not disagreeing it's bad design esp with the 1 minute timer, it just might follow their thought process a little more. This is part of the reason I'd like to see a video, it'd force them to actually do the content and see if it's working as intended, something I'm not convinced they've done.
I've also wondered if Migawari mitigated it. During v15 I went in on NIN a lot and if we didn't kill it in time, I'd sometimes be the only one left standing and I intermittently kept it up. I never tested if it was eating Migawari or because of the set I had on at the time, though.
Asura.Aragan
By Asura.Aragan 2025-07-10 17:30:34
I lost all respect for you at that point
There's no way you had any ounce of respect for this guy from the beginning, but I respect you keeping it classy like Dudley from Street Fighter (you still my guy, Perg)
go to the hell
Asura.Aragan
By Asura.Aragan 2025-07-10 17:32:20
LOL
Aragan if you want to be respected, you also have to respect others.
You called me a liar in our first conversation, for saying that I don't use tools to automatically re-apply buffs before they wear off. You refused to believe, because it seems you cannot imagine a world where people actually play the game instead of automating it. I lost all respect for you at that point. Now you call me a liar on public forums too. I'll be blocking you, don't expect any further responses from me.
 Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2413
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2025-07-10 17:57:08
I lost all respect for you at that point
There's no way you had any ounce of respect for this guy from the beginning, but I respect you keeping it classy like Dudley from Street Fighter (you still my guy, Perg)
go to the hell
Guys... You are waking up every day knowing we are better than this guy, isn't that a great way to start your day
What a jabronie
By Tarage 2025-07-10 17:57:54
Mkay I guess I'll just start reporting every post he makes until one of us is banned.
Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2413
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2025-07-10 17:58:59
I lost all respect for you at that point
There's no way you had any ounce of respect for this guy from the beginning, but I respect you keeping it classy like Dudley from Street Fighter (you still my guy, Perg)
go to the hell
Guys... You are waking up every day knowing we are better than this guy, isn't that a great way to start your day
What a jabronie
Bonus -
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-07-10 18:13:14
I was willing to defend him in the other thread, and I thought maybe other people were just kind of bullying/being mean since his speech is a little off. I ignored that other thread and let everyone else carry on. But he used the word "secret" one too many times, even bringing that nonsense here, to the point that it was absurdly annoying (since nothing this guy has ever done in ffxi or shared is unknown), so I couldn't take it anymore.
Also, I just posted one of my favorite Street Fighter characters and get told to "go to hell". I could REALLY go in on Aragan for the rest of the AH community to see how much of a major scrub this guy is (Asura already knows), but I'll spare you all since you can probably imagine just from reading his posts.
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