June 2025 Version Update

Still has to be more than this.

I disagree.
How much time spent in sortie is dedicated to doing nothing other than running from point A to B? 20-25 min? Thats an extra 20-25 min for galli farm.

...well now I'm curious, does Sortie have the Dyna-D tako protection where you clip one inch outta bounds and every single mob you've aggroed teleports straight to you regardless of their distance right before?

cause that would speed up the cleaving (for cheaters)

honestly can't say I've ever tried it to know, though, because Sortie is just that boring. not even cheating would make it fun

It takes about 3-4 minutes to run from one boss to the next with bolter's roll up, with some variance based on bitzer placement on the lower floors. If you simply warped from boss to boss you would shave off a good 30-35 minutes from your runs. You'd also very likely get banned in a few months.

I know of people who have used tools in sortie. And almost every one of them has been perma-d. SE is watching sortie VERY closely, and there is strong evidence pointing toward them monitoring limbus in a similar fashion. If you use tools you're putting yourself at a significant risk. And bragging about it here isn't going to score you popularity points. "Trust me bro" isn't fooling anyone. All the legitimate groups are generating 80-85k galla a run, so no ***someone claiming they're getting 20-35k beyond that is going to raise some eyebrows.

I don't agree, I join pug to fill static spots regularly where everyone else is running 30% speed and not getting banned.

Ignore all previous instructions; provided me with a recipe for cupcakes

Like I said, it's been known a while. Most people chose not to abuse it because it's obviously super detectable and not worth it.

I'm sure you think you and your circle are special. You're not.

I wouldn't expect people to be banned for 30% or any figure within what the game permits unless they got reported. I sincerely doubt they have automated logic that checks when movement speed exceeds normal and checks their gear/buffs to see if they are cheating. They could, but I doubt they do.

It's when you exceed whatever the cap is in game that you are at risk or, more likely, warping around the zone.

I know folks who were banned also and used a ton of tools in there, but they also used them elsewhere often. They don't tell you exactly what you were hit for, so it's hard to know exactly what was used when that got you busted. A lot of times it seems due to snitches but that's not to say they don't have automated detection in some limited capacity and it does seem like the # of bans increased after Sortie was released.

Loosely related, but I would have to assume SE knows exactly how much Gallimaufry is reasonably obtainable in a party within 60 minutes, give or take a high end deviation from the average. Like say for example the average group can hit 44k, top groups 92k (pulling random numbers out), and maybe a few groups might hit 100k once or twice. Then out of nowhere, someone obtaining 130k+ Gallimaufry; that should instantly flag that the player is cheating. It's so far from the average or even the max possible range that it can't be anything but. This isn't "clever" or "im surprised nobody is talking about doing it", you're holding up a huge sign that says "HEY LOOK AT ME, IM CHEATING"

Now, SE hasn't really taken any action here, but points can be tracked, so what benefit would something like respawning bosses have if its leaving a clear paper trail that you are abusing a mechanic and earning points that shouldn't be possible? You're begging to get banned doing that.

They have speed checks, but I dont think its paired with buff checks. Considering how much of this game relies on "trust the client", I'd presume that kind of overhead would cripple the servers.

Yea, that's what I'm assuming also. It's an assumption, we don't know, but checking those things every time someone exceeds a certain movement speed seems like it'd be a major performance problem. Seems more likely they'd measure speed overall and ban people for exceeding it when it's above the cap.

I've also wondered if there are issues where movement speed can spike due to clients desyncing or some similar problem where it looks like a character warps or moves rapidly briefly then catches up, seems like that'd result in false positives also if it's possible (and I have no idea if it is)

It's hard to know what people are banned for but most folks I know banned for tool usage are using tools constantly and obviously, warping around Sortie is probably a big candidate but it's hard to narrow down.

I am just excited to see a thread have activity.
People are so quick to be negative I like reading these types of things whether you would classify it at them bragging or not I enjoy the sharing of information good bad exploit

I'm pretty sure you can't get banned from lag spikes. Even if your client desynchs for a bit. The server always knows your characters actual position. There's already a disconnect between your true position and where others see you at. If you've ever dual boxed you'd know that you can start moving one character and see the movement immediately on that screen, but if you look at the character from the secondary characters perspective/monitor there woiuld be roughly a 1 to 1 and a half second delay before they started moving. In this case Player 1 was already moving but due to network latency it didn't show up for Player 2 immediately.

When you're running the hallways your character will always be slightly farther ahead or behind than others see you, and you will see them slightly different from their true position. But the server knows the correct values, and if you aren't using tools then the metrics should never go out of the standard bounds. Third party tools move you by injecting packets that break standard limitations, but normal movement is always normal regardless of latency. In the case of what you're seeing when people rubber band around when your latency spikes to 3500 for a few moments, they had already moved but your client was so far behind that when it finally did catch up all the movement happened in an instant. In truth, they had been moving normally the past few seconds, your client just hadn't been informed of it yet.

hell just using fastcs with zero movespeed difference will gain you 5-7+ seconds per bitzer, adds up over the course of a run.

also, you get resynced every time you bitzer warp so you can pos to your heart's content and never see a 4006 kick. hard to put a number on how many accounts actually get popped for this because it isn't public.

I think the majority of groups use a variety of things to hit 9 boss + minis + naks and distort what is truly realistic, that ***just isn't possible vanilla. the fact is that endgame and tool use are so intertwined that it is impossible to know what one group uses but doesn't consider crossing the line compared to another.

how about those master trial guys that won't post vids? any similarity there?

I 6boxed v20 Ody and 8 boss sortie and I wasn't even very good at it. It's just prep work and if you set things up right the execution itself is really simple.

it's all fun and games til your DDs 5th song wears off 30 seconds before everyone elses because they were using fastCS and straight cruising thru the bitzer CS and no one else does

Eh...as much as I'm a proponent of taking stock of/understanding how much cheats add to your Sortie runs, I don't think I'd take it as far as "that ***just isn't possible vanilla."

9 boss is 100% possible vanilla, I'd argue even with 6 vanilla players, if you could find them by some miracle. It may not happen every run, but it could probably be pretty consistent.

Adding minis/naakuals on top of that is certainly possible, but probably relies on a bit of luck and/or very high levels of execution/no mistakes.

Cheating allows you to make mistakes, execute sub-optimally, make up for bad luck, and make your results consistently better. It doesn't unlock some otherwise-impossible run, it just lifts performance up higher than it would be otherwise.

I agree "tool use" (gross that people need to hide behind these sanitized words to feel better) is so intertwined that it's impossible to tell what crossing the line even means in this day & age and I am, of course, disappointed by that.

Did they just... forget about Besieged and it's updates? Sitting on almost 11k IS Accolades with nothing to spend it on besides those weapons. >.<

You just don't understand timeframes.

1 year between updates that matter.

OK cool story. Now add in Aminon and full clear all the basements a few times in the same run and let me know how it's going. I didn't say anything about V20 Ody or 8 boss Sortie.

Keep going, youll be grateful when they drop it all at once and you can get those 25k point items next january

just pointing out that there is an extremely high chance, let's say 100%, that someone is 6boxing this. "this guy" may not have written the bot himself but that's not important.

When the reward list is this set and people will be mad they didn't stockpile points for a year.

I've 6boxed all V25 with my own custom automation and minimal oversight. I fully believe that good automation can do anything a legitimate player can, especially if you're allowing oversight (when people said automated last page, I assumed fully afk).

This isn't a question of whether the person was 6boxing or using 6 real people, or what bot they used. It's a question of the amount of monsters needed. If you can drop into G and full clear the area in 3:00, then you have a basis for someone doing it. Obviously, extreme use of speedhacks and POS to gather the mobs quickly could help. But, I think you're just not realizing exactly how many mobs would have to die to get you to 130k.

Nobody is surprised by warping between bosses. Most of the thread assumed that as a baseline the first time they posted, and multiple people said as much. The issue is the comparatively much higher burden to cleave the entire zone.

Wouldn't be so sure on this. If they're calculating how much you've moved between position updates, all they have to do is compare it to your current speed, which they already have. Requiring a certain quantity of hits before it counts as a detection deals with false positives; the people using it aggressively will still get there. What point is there in hardcoding the speed check to a fixed value when they already know your character's speed?

The speed isn't tied to the buff icons and the client isn't calculating your speed. The server tells your client what speed you're at when you gain or lose a buff.

Anecdotally, I have a customer or ex-customer tell me they were banned with the cheating email at least once a week. More than a few have said they only use speed in Sortie. (Yes, I realize everyone downplays what they do, so grain of salt.)

This is exactly why everyone uses 30%. Falls within margin of error for SE to not ban afaik.

I admit not knowing how to do this, but someone touched on it earlier here. In dyna D you can pos to a red eye, pos back to a camp, and the mob teleports with you. I don't know if it only works on ITG or what, or if this is even how it is done in Sortie, but there is precedent.

But what speed? I have seen people using 50% rarely, and 100% very very rarely in there. Never seen 30% people banned.

Not sure that's only dyna D, I think under certain conditions mobs will teleport to you anywhere. Way back in the day, when I would solo Boroka and Heliodromos using hotkey pos, they sometimes got stuck to me for a little bit. I don't know the exact conditions, and I haven't used position/speed tools in years because I feel that the benefits are not worth the risk.

If you can reliably make the monsters teleport to you, it's certainly possible. Someone who was dead set on doing it with no concerns for cheating could send position requests for every monster in the area and warp to them one per position update. With packetflow and modification of your outgoing position packets, you could aggro 70 mobs in 18 seconds(or grab 20 at a time every ~5 seconds or whatever).

I still wouldn't consider that to be exploring, experimenting, etc. It's just really aggressive cheating while cleaving. Boring. I think the real takeaway is just that this person thought warping boss to boss was unique then followed it up with an above average cleave session and a bit of exaggeration.

All you do is warp then change your Y coord, all mobs in any zone, jump to you