June 2025 Version Update

Yeah, better if they spend that precious time upgrading Besieged instead.
Because that's so useful inorite

Ballista

First impressions: This content isn't designed for you players with five alternate accounts powering through everything. It's for us normies that play solo. Finally some end-game mid-tier content.

Serious question though....

Would you rather have the bulk of the stats they add in the first upgrade or the last?

Empyrean armor gave the bulk of the stats up front. To the degree that +2 shits on +3 from the stat/galli value. I feel like AF/relic upgrades are being done the opposite way because the gap isn't as large.

Personally I prefer getting the bulk of the stats from the bigger grind. Just feels more rewarding even though the end result is the same.

I'll drop this here so you can practice some self control and leave it a mystery or go for the dopamine hit and find out befor anyone else does, up to you.

1) They've done a decent job of making the "step 1" of a new pair of JSE updates more relevant EVERY OTHER TIME they have released new upgraded tiers of AF/Relic/Empy armor, so why is it unreasonable to expect these latest upgrades to fall in line with the same approach that we've seen consistently throughout this game's history when it comes to JSE armor?

2) How do you know we're getting +5s in a matter of weeks? For all we know, they might be adding Ultima/Omega for modern Homam/Nashira equivalents as the next phase, maybe they implement something like accessories (e.g., equivalent to ABC-buyable items from original Limbus) in another step after that, and maybe we won't even see AF/Relic+5 until 2026.


I find that to be a more interesting question.

I personally prefer the Empy model where the +2 is the big step up, and +3 a more modest gain (for a bigger grind). Helps players
get a bigger improvement earlier to allow them to better contribute to events - especially good for people who might have taken a break or are just getting to that level (as opposed to the hardcore who have everything else already). I don't really mind how some of the reforged Empy+2s are BiS pieces when compared to everything but the +3 of the same piece - and since the +3 is inherently going to be better, people will absolutely still grind those out too.

However, I can understand your position too. There's some sense of wanting to feel you've put in an amount of work commensurate with the reward, I get that and respect that point of view.

EDIT: You're also making a pretty big assumption that the "bulk of the stats" are coming soon with +5 upgrades. Who's to say those aren't just gonna be another Atk+5/Acc+5/STR+3, then the one high WSD piece? (though hey, maybe I'm wrong and we'll see massive increases then, with DT and TP Bonus and PDL+ and all that just popping up out of nowhere)

Just picked up the new "Model Synergy Furnace II" from login points.


Zzz time for me now, will test the difference in furnace HP tomorrow if no one hasn't yet.

Can't be worse than Sortie...

It's this type of hyperbole that makes this conversation feel a little ridiculous. In all fairness, I pulled the most hyperbolic line out of an otherwise fair critique of the content, but your not the only one who I've heard this from. Some of the upgrades are flat out underwhelming. However, calling it DoA is just comical.

This content is more approachable than Omen for new players, certainly more approachable than Dynamis D, it incentivizes under-geared players to group up while making it as easy as possible to do so, it offers that feeling of playing in an MMO thanks to the fact that the zone isn't instanced, and it isn't time-gated to the degree that Sortie and Odyssey is. These goals are (evidently) what the devs believed was missing from the game. What reward structure did this give this super-casual, new-player friendly content? Very marginal rewards, sure. But also notably, a place for under-geared players to find others to play with.

This content is particularly great for players who can't stay subbed consistently. It's easy enough to pick up a couple +3 pieces of AF if you find an LS actively helping with Omen for a couple weeks, but for seasonal players who have to find an active LS every time they resub, this content offers marginal rewards and a place to look for active players. I was initially more critical of the content, but reading so many short-sighted takes has made me feel the need to fall in love with the content.

The producer has stated at least twice, that there will be future updates with better rewards, and he has also stated that the goal for Limbus is to put AF/Relic gear on par with Empyrean. Whether or not they succeed at that will be anyone's guess. But calling a content piece DoA based on it's initial implementation is just willful ignorance.

It's no guess. The +5 won't suddenly sprout 10 dt 50 more meva and 80 attack so it will never be on par with empyrean.

The +4 could have, and then it couldve ended up equal. But as long as there is zero survivabilty on af and relic limbus is doa.

Is there some non zero amount of people going to do it, yes.

Is there a non zero amount of people that will be enthusiastic about it by july. No.

we've been presented with vertical progression in gear from new events for a while now, so that when 220 pieces of horizontal progression gear (and some would argue they barely meet than criteria) are released, people are confused.

it would have helped tremendously if SE would have teased a piece of two of armor before release to temper people's expectations.

Assuming +5 is indeed a thing (seems to me that it will be), it’s not entirely copium to think that the jump from +4 to +5 will be significant like the jump from +1 to +2 is. When that actually comes to fruition remains to be seen but I don’t think there’s any arguing that the rewards are somewhat underwhelming as is.

Jury is still out. Content has been live for 24 hours. The boss battle content/rewards are going to obviously be the deciding factor on whether or not Neo-limbus is successful long term. One thing I will say is, our normal sortie 9 boss group went into Apollyon last night just to mess around and, while I am sure this can/will change quickly, it was a nice change of pace.

Since the +4 is just points and a KI, it seems feasible that they could use the NMs as a source of direct equipment drops and still require NM clear KIs to unlock +5 (which would just be points and a KI).

I think it's probably very optimistic to assume +5 will be both added and make the gear competitive to Sortie+3 though. All of the prior 2-step upgrades have frontloaded the majority of benefits on first step.

Best argument I can see is that SE has been listening a little more and +4 is getting a terrible reception on the NA side. If it's just as bad on the JP side, maybe they will make +5 better than initially planned. Of course, as Eiryl keeps saying, part of it is willingness to engage with the content as is.

It's not really the point though, the WSD pieces don't overlap... and many of the AF+relic have unique stats we expected to be enhanced.

It's crazy that whm legs got a higher % return on +2 then +3 when they were already OP. Why can't BLM get 3% MP back? etc.

I wasn't really arguing about power balance or what they should've done; they absolutely could've increased some of the unique stats. I don't think increasing spae. coat to 3% would've been fair, but they absolutely could've added an additional point of refresh or regen to a lot of pieces. Throwing in DT so the WS pieces aren't squishy would've made sense. Most of the unique stats could be boosted.

I was just saying that historically, they have frontloaded most of the benefit on the first of 2 upgrade steps. It doesn't seem likely they are planning a second upgrade step that does everything we were hoping for.

What really disappointed me... was the content.

I was expecting a 10–15% increase in item stats something sharp, meaningful. But hey... guess we didn’t get that, did we?

With this update, the difference between Matsui-sama and Fujito-san really showed.

Matsui loves high-quality, hardcore content. The kind that grabs you by the collar intense, brutal, designed for tight 6-man teams.

Fujito, on the other hand... he leans into something safer, more conservative. He’s focused on accessibility, making sure it’s friendly for everyone.

What I was hoping for was two new battlegrounds inspired by Dynamis.

Apollyon: Designed for 6 to 18 players, with a 2-hour time limit and a 48-hour cooldown. The challenge begins at around Dynamis Wave 2.5 difficulty and rises to match the intensity of Wave 3.0. The final boss? None other than ULTIMA WEAPON.

Temenos: Follows the same structure, but this time you’re up against OMEGA WEAPON. And the 48-hour cooldown would be completely separate from Apollyon’s.

Now that... that would’ve been content worthy of the name. The kind of fight night that makes warriors grin and hearts race.

Well, perhaps this issue here is then how much *** effort have they made to make this content just to make a few minimally better sidegrades? It is ridiculous how much dev time they would have spent on this for such menial changes to the armor. Why add meva but not add DT while at it? They took some effort to add new stats, why accept a half arsed job?

Also, what will be the point in any NMs if there is nothing more to come?

They told us 2+ years ago they were going to add drops to sortie nms once, never have done anything, many empty promises for unfinished content.

Again, I wasn't defending their choice or saying they did the right thing. I was saying that you probably shouldn't expect +5 to come out and be amazing.

FFXIAH does not represent the NA community, and I don't see real negative feedback from it anywhere else cause people seem happy to just be doing something new. XIAH is about 5-10 doomposters that are never happy no matter what is added, and once they set the tone everyone else gets dragged along the same way.

Many of the doomposters don't even play the game.

While I would have loved more job-specific stats to be increased / added to job-specific-equipment, one thing is for sure, at least on my server - we have by far the largest amount of active players online at any given time that I've seen since covid days. Seeing a lot of old names that haven't been around in a long time. A near 100% increase in online player count.

Whether they stay or not is another story. Still pleasantly surprised we're getting the amount of effort and updates to the game after being told it's basically being put on life support.

https://www.ffxiah.com/item/3399/odious-mirror

Yes they are. The core iLevel values got raised to be consistent with Empy +3 / Gaol gear along with a handful of per-slot specific values. The gear is demonstrably better. You didn't want merely "better", you wanted it to replace Gaol and Empy gear in the same way Empy / Gaol replaced what was before it. People here were expecting an entirely new gear tier because Gaol and Empy gear are years old and they wanted a reason to go chase stuff. A big part of FFXI's fun is building your gearsets and doing these kinds of upgrades do that.

It just sounds identical to what people were saying when Empy +2 dropped.

Given the choice, I'd like to see the more significant buffs be added on the +4 with the +5 being more for the hardcore players.

In the case of the AF/relic +4 though, I think one approach they could have done would be to split the upgrades into stats/defensive upgrades and actual job enhancements. Like if they made the +4 add a couple seconds to valiance or a couple seconds to rampart, and then the +5 comes along later to add -dt or mdb to make them a little safer to use.

Remember when people dogpiled on me for suggesting a WSD cap?


Well instead, SE implements a content wide DT-50 on mobs. gg

I always felt NIN should either get a job trait that allows them to exceed the delay reduction cap, or have DW not reduce TP or just throw copious amounts of sTP on the gear with DW+ on it. Because its a bit ludicrous that some of these "upgrades" are not exactly that.

50% DT with 50% reduction in HP is great. They basically gave you 199k damage cap.

Gokotai is the only reason a ninja playing at this gear level needs DW. And that is just to idle during the prebuff cycle. But it caps at a certain point. It should have been upgraded to "augments dual wield" like on the empyrean gear when they started the upgrades to 119.

Anyways, I'll move along now. At least we got acc on the head, so that's something I overlooked earlier and is better than a kick to both nutz.

Anyone know if the set bonuses change +3 --> +4?

Any DW past the cap should convert to STP instead at a 1:1 rate. Pieces like AF/Relic body, AF/Relic Legs, Empyrean Head, and other niche pieces (Floral Gauntlets, Ryuo Somen +1, Adhemar Jacket +1) become an advantage instead of a detriment. The moment you are not haste capped, the conversion reverts and you gain the attack speed bonus instead. In either case, you always benefit from more DW.

And no, this isn't broken, Kakka: Ichi gives a measly 10 STP. Despicable.