DD WHM Onion Sword III For Segs Etc.

Hey, I still didn't pick a bonanza weapon and tbh as i am a huge fan of dd whm solo/low man shenanigans, i'd really love to hear some feedback from those who have a decent dd WHM, regarding the use of Onion Sword III on WHM for Fast Blade II spam.

My main worries are:
- low native skills
- low access to PDL gear which benefits that WS more than WSD

Since I usually prebuff with SCH n RDM before seg runs, i find myself with a lot of time to dd on whm when doing seg runs while regen V lasts 21+ minutes (hybrid potency/duration set) and Haste II for like 19 minutes (crooked naturalist roll before entering).

I usually aim for 1 million overall damage, but since WHM lacks decent slashing or piercing options, it ends up being hella reliant on the families you find during a run, when you find them and how strong the other dds/supports are.

For reference, usually spamming black halos asap i'd get around 35-40k dmg from ws, 60k vs skeletons or 15k vs blunt resistant mobs.
Since blunt resists are many, i'm wondering how would a superbuffed WHM perform in segs if it could use Fast Blade II with Onion Sword vs Slashing weak enemies?? I guess also for solo/low man shenanigans, it might be interesting.. but the stupid low sword skills paired with other factors make me worry.

That's why i made this post, if you got that sword and a decent DD WHM setup, could u please try n test some numbers by superbuffing urself while stacking PDL, multiattacks, fotia gear etc? I'm curious to see how viable or unviable it would be. Main concern could also be accuracy, but nothing that proper buffs can't fix!
I think it would be better than spamming 15k black halos vs blunt resistant mobs in seg runs, but if the dmg is gonna be 20-25k then it's not gonna be worth it imo.. since even Mystic Boon can reach 50-60k dmg under ideal conditions these days.

I wish DD WHM had more going for it :P but now that i got both nyame n bunzi r25 at least, i'll also go back at recording some ddwhm shenanigans for youtube as well! Stay tuned for the off meta DD WHMs party clearing content for challenge lol

Does Winja have access to offhand TP Bonus club? If so then you can likely get decent-ish numbers, otherwise your better off with Maxentinus and Black Halo.

Have you tried using Seraph Strike, Flash Nova, or Rock Crusher (Staff) on Blunt-Resistant monsters and deal Light or Earth damage? Just looking at the blunt-resist mobs in Sheol C, most, if not all of them look like they take additional Light or Earth element (like up to 30% in some cases). You could try a few runs cranking out those 3 WS and see if the numbers you get are better than Black Halo. I'm not sure what you're subbing, but if you're /SCH, you can get access to storms to beef your damage up a little with those 2 elements as well. The magical WS might offset a part of the blunt-penalty and allow you to deal respectable damage, especially if it's on like C1/C2. You shouldn't suffer a penalty at all, actually. It's magical WS, not hybrid, so it should ignore the blunt resistance.

IMHO, I think Onion Sword on WHM is a terrible idea, even with a TP bonus offhand. You're at like -300 Acc alone in the main hand and your sub adds nothing else, and WHM isn't a native DD, so you would have to overcompensate with accuracy buffs to hit decently. Personally feel that kind of sacrifice is just trying to force a use for the weapon. But it's a for fun weapon, and if that weapon brings you joy and you get use out of it, go for it? It's not like the group is banking on your WHM deeps (if they are, then it doesn't matter anyways lol).

What are your durations on these with no nat roll? They sound very high, both my SCH and RDM are BiS and I don't think I hit the numbers you have here. I think Haste2 with no Nat roll is about 12mins?

I always Crooked Naturalist 11 and buff Haste/Regen V/Refresh 3 before going into Sortie.

Regen V with Crooked Naturalist 11 with GEO present, combined with all available enhancing duration bonus gear (Musa, Telchine, Arbatel Bracers +3, Lugh's Cape) is 26 minutes.

Haste II with Crooked Naturalist 11 + GEO, Emp AF Head/Body/Legs/Feet, AF+3 Hands, Embla Sash, Colada, Ammurapi, Ghostfyre, Lethargy Earring +2, Duelist Torque +2 is 20 minutes.

I usually only 3 (Lucky) roll Naturalist for Sheol C to save time, but even with a Lucky roll, Regen V is 23 minutes.

Inside Sortie, Haste II (no Naturalist roll) is 14 minutes.
I don't actually take SCH into these content so no info on Regen V without Naturalist though.

I don't know what kind of dd gear whm has access to, but when i go to OdyC as bst/nin, when there are skeletons {even on the last floor), ambu h2h does the trick, even tho bst has no native h2h skill.
I use a multi-hit build, so no malignance.

Why would you want PDL, when you wont be able to cap attack without it anyway? :D I doubt even with 3 soul voice minuets and Honor, Chaos roll and Diaga, you will be attack capped even with no PDL. No native sword skill, no skill on sub weapon, no attack on both weapons.

Also WHM has some PDL still. Emphremad, Bunzi body, Crep ammo.

I'll check again later but have all these except the collada which I need to do, but that's only 6% more, and don't have earring+2, only +1

I also specified that i use the max potency/duration hybrid set, specifically to avoid tbis comment about max duration regen lol.. yet here we are once again. I know Regen V can last longer, but i prefer to use potency where you get more out of it than using flat max duration. 21m of strong regen is better imo than 24-26 of weaker regen. This discussion is as old as the world.. some ppl just prefer going without potency but max duration, i'm not one of them xD

Indeed having access to 3-4 pieces of pdl is low access, that is why i said low access.. compared to DDs with many more pdl slots available, that is what i consider low access to pdl. I thought it was obvious.. meh.
Also u'd be surprised to know that sometimes i've even been able to ride aria on whm, it's not like we can't wear huge atk+ gear and def debuffing exists, so sometimes you can actually use pdl as whm. You wouldn't be using whm dd for v25 or sortie basement, we're talking about piss easy content sub 140

Yeah btw, whm/nin gets access to tp bonus +1000 offhand, pretty fun to use with yagrush r15, maxentius, magesmasher+1 r15 etc

What really sucks when soloing things on ddwhm is that trusts like Sylvie behave as if you'd wanna be a caster, using indi-acumen and such instead of fury/frailty etc.
But when WHM gets nice buffs and debuffs are on point, it can DD, assuming they have the time to actually do so if they are not busy.
Usually it happens for the first 15-20 minutes of segs if you prebuff with sch/rdm, during dyna d runs with multiple healers, some ambuscade, aeonic clears, sinister reign etc etc

I see 13:41 on Regen 5, Musa, Relic body, Emp hands, 3/5 Telchine, belt, cape, etc.


Haste 2 on self with Composure: 24:20
Haste 2 on other with Composure and Emp+3 pieces: 09:43

How is Haste2 going to 20 minutes with roll and Collada? I don't see how.

You are missing pieces on your RDM or you don't have enhancing duration merited.

Haste 2 on self with Composure: 30:00(cap)
Haste 2 on others with composure: 13:54

Light Arts/Tabula Regen V lasts 22mins with crooked XI roll.

Earlier you said you were BIS, very clearly not if you're missing two necessary pieces to push duration. Also, I'm sure you're probably using something like Ambu back with duration on it instead of Ghostfrye augments.

Wow, just checked and my RDM lua doesn't equip neck+2 on that char. This is what it is now:
sets.midcast['Enhancing Magic'] = {
sub="Ammurapi Shield", --10%
ammo="",
head="Leth. Chappel +3", --10%
body="Vitiation Tabard +3", --15%
hands="Atrophy Gloves +3", --20%
legs="Leth. Fuseau +3", --10%
feet="Leth. Houseaux +3", --40%
neck="Duelist's Torque +2", --25%
ear1="",
ear2="Lethargy earring +1", --8%
ring1="",
ring2="",
back="Ghostfyre Cape", --*1.2
waist="Embla Sash", --10%
}

SCH is:
main="Musa", --20%
sub="",
ammo="",
head="Telchine Cap", --10%
body="Pedagogy Gown +3", --12%
hands="Telchine Gloves", --10%
legs="Telchine Braconi", --10%
feet="Telchine Pigaches", --10%
neck="",
ear1="",
ear2="",
ring1="",
ring2="",
back="",
waist="Embla Sash", --10%
} --82%

sets.buff['Perpetuance'] = {hands="Arbatel Bracers +3"}

I have 5/5 Immunobreak and 5/5 Enfeebling duration (switched to bind/sleep T1+T2 V25s, could swap back).

Basic maths told me I was more than 7% off. It will be because of neck not being on that char lua for some reason and merits.

Ok, getting 14:04 now with merits and making sure neck is in. Still 7% off Colada+earring+2

Enough off-topic bs.. I got the sword and started gearing/testing on WHM (RDM too). I will also showcase GEO and SCH DDing with it eventually but for now i'm focusing WHM and RDM.



The following are dmg numbers obtained by going solo with trusts in places like DI (no awakening) or lvl119-124 NMs in Zitah, since Sylvie is stupid when used as WHM main i had to use double bard trust, qultada, monbro and koru moru:



OnionWHM Fast Blade II avg dmg 28-31k to 42k+ with multiatk procs (no etudes, no real buffs, no aria, no warcry, no 1hrs)



OnionRDM Fast Blade II avg dmg 43-45k to 56-58k+ with common MA procs (could spike even higher by spamming more ws to get more MA procs, but that's just for quick reference).


I already heavily simulated various HQ buffed scenarios for many jobs and now i just need to replicate the setups in game to showcase the dmg that this WS can potentially do on all jobs (will upload videos on FFXI AsuranResearchHub channel), but depending on the content you'd use it for and the job (with or without native sword skills), buffs will change a bit (like an extra pianissimo madrigal if the job doesn't have native sword skills.)


Few considerations about Fast Blade II:

- Scales with DEX only
- WSD sucks for it, PDL is better if you can cap attack
- due to FTP replicating property, higher effective TP mean higher overall FTP, and multiatk procs get even better the more tp you have when you WS.
- due to this, Fotia Belt/Neck are pretty good options (not always BiS tho, some jobs got better options)
- if you wanna favor max ws frequency and still get nice avg damage, should use tp bonus gear, otherwise can use offhanda with high MA and melee stats for max possible damage but lower WS frequency.
- Single wielding sucks for this WS, since dual wielding alone guarantees an extra hit (and extra chances to proc MA rounds on each hand swinging). WAR fencer build isn't ideal for this reason tbh, for WAR and DRK for max dmg, best sub is /NIN with best offhand being Sangarius+1 for DRK (WAR too if u can't use tp bonus 1h axe), in general for every job using it BiS offhand to spam asap is the tp bonus one, for max possible ws dmg you need instead a multiatk weapon with high melee stats.
- BiS cape is Ambu cape with DEX+30, Double Atk+10 on each job, Null Shawl is also decent but definitely inferior.


By using full HQ buffs such as etudes, geo/entrust dex, boost dex, fighter roll, aria, 1hrs etc etc you can push this WS up to 60-70k avg dmg on ALL JOBS (some go as high as 90k+ avg dmg with max possible buffs), with occasional 99k spikes depending on how much miltiatk chance you have on your WS gear.

I'll add more infos once i record n publish the showcase videos of them!!

Lookin for volunteers to help me replicate the setups i simulated, thus will need:
-Aria BRD with +9 etudes
-iGEO
-+8 COR

Will test more jobs as soon as i get the BiS AmbuCapes for those specific jobs! (Can prob do WHM SCH GEO RDM straight away, i already modified my whm and rdm lua w/Onion)


P.s. imho apart from DNC, MNK also got high potential with this weapon to deal respectable slashing dmg. Not saying you'll suddenly be able to use onionMNK, GEO, WHM or SCH in v25 fights or Sortie basement, but there's A LOT of content where instead such off meta builds would be perfectly viable to use for fun, although sub optimal.

P.p.s. the onionWHM max dmg possible build sacrifices a lot of stats to favor etudes n such, but there's also a no etude build for whm which can reach 7.5/8k attack, 1.6k accuracy and still get 50-60k ws avg dmg with possible 80-99k spikes (with HQ buffs aka 1hr songs etc)! In a world where ws wall exists, having a new powerful WS available can mean a lot tbh in some fights!

Ok I normally support people being excited and I support Onion Sword III too, but I think you went slightly too far with this :D

If you use every buff/debuff in the game on 119 mob or even apex mob, then it's obvious you can do 99k FBII spikes even on SCH/NIN, but this is "just for fun" thing. With the same level of buffs/debuffs Savage and Black Halo will be doing 99k every time, not just spikes.

If I throw enough buffs I can push CDC on BLU to do 67k avg with spikes to 99k too and I can even do something silly like this:


:D




Where do you have WS wall and it's not Sortie or V25? DynamisD bosses? There is literally no practical use case where you throw so many buffs/debuffs to let WHM/nin catch up DD jobs on trash mobs. It's really only for fun if you 6 box or have 5 friends willing to make you happy on DD WHM.

I can see MNK possibly using Onion if you can only do slashing damage, but in an event like maybe Limbus, where lets say you will have one floor of mobs that you can't damage with blunt and you have no other choice, but it will be far from 50k avg and 99k spikes, because it would be probably buff/debuff scenario similar to Segments.

Look, who needs FBII, when you can just do normal Fast Blade :D

So I see no response to my suggestions above about alternative options in Sheol C for WHM. I was curious about feedback on the damage since you seemed genuine about doing additional damage, so I suggested a practical alternative in a real setting. But seems you were dead set on Onion Sword from the beginning regardless and was only ever looking for someone to reinforce your own fun idea too use sword on WHM. Which is fine, should have gotten the toy you wanted from the beginning, but you don't need to demonstrate numbers on something like WHM to convince yourself or other of the weapon's potential. Play it however you want. :)

Also, Escha or Domain Invasion gives vorseal passive buffs, and the dragons specifically give extra buffs too (from other trusts). It's kind of a weird place to test it. Of course, like Simon showed, you can force high damage if you really wanted to just by applying everything possible. But that's an impractical way to present that... You specifically mentioned wanting to use WHM on Segs, but ask for GEO help for testing buffs. You normally don't bring that job to segments. It's like two different conversations here.

I would have hoped you just went in Segments as WHM with the same standard buffs as the rest of the party and reported back your damage, that's what I was really interested in seeing, because the accuracy problem is what I was curious about. What you really asked about was the blunt resistance problem too, so you should be testing your damage against those monsters to see how viable the sword is, no? Otherwise, couldn't you just super buff the clubs and put out more damage?

Meh, you be good bruh.

How about meaningful content that doesn't get a lot of stat bonuses from just being in Escha zones?

I hope you like the toy but for any job that doesn't have native Sword skill, let alone MA/PDL options, you are going to be doing very low numbers. Getting a Madrigal in relevant content means you aren't getting an attack song so again lower damage.

What does Savage do with the same buffs?

99k all the time

Pretty much, beside 1% chance to miss first hit.

WHM DD

I went too far with this? I think instead u went too far with being overly critique of something which u don't even know enough about, while cherrypicking things which got nothing to do with what i'm talkin about.. like shooting ws at 2k tp.

To me it seems like on this forum, some ppl just feel the need to reply to posts they don't even care about because they're chronically addicted to being that kind of guys..

Like seriously, what is your point in this? You're not adding anything useful, nor interesting to the discussion, just negative anti-hype bs. Is it because it's not "meta"? Lemme tell u one thing that it seems many of u often forget, WE PLAY THIS GAME FOR FUN.
Meta comps and meta builds are NOT the game itself, there's much more than that. In other rpg n mmos people play the games by adding artificial challenges, like trying to kill hard things with suboptimal comps, builds and such, while FFXI which is an infinitely deeper game than most games, ends up having a community made of metasheeps following the same boring and ungabunga meta over n over. That wouldn't be a problem by itself, if only you didn't start acting as if anything which is not meta is automatically useless or pointless. When in reality many jobs who didn't have access to good slashing dmg, now got something, and tbh i plan on doing party challenges with off meta team compositions and this kind of theorycrafting is exactly what's needed to make a party of dd whms n other off meta builds work together.

If you don't wanna add constructive criticism to this post, i'd ask you to look somewhere else. This kind of attitude is also part of the problem why ffxi community can't have nice things while remaining stuck with a playerbase full of parrots and meta sheeps parroting what other ppl told em.

We got a freaking new toy to allow for some interesting new things to be done on other jobs, and all you can add to this discussion is what y'all said?? Fine. You're free to keep playing the game as you do with a closed mind, i'll just try something different. I wanna see what off meta jobs can achieve in these kind of situations, and i'm sure i'm not the only one thinking that ffxi can still evolve and give much more to its players. We just need to think outside of the box sometimes, rather than singing along the metasheep chorus.

Ffs, smh.

Simon doesn't need to be defended in this discussion, but you're totally incorrect. The first person on these forums to mention off-meta instances was Simon. You can go back to early Sheol Gaol fights where he wasn't even participating, and he was throwing out scenarios that others never considered. When OSIII first came out, the first person to suggest it was a great pick was from Simon, and he initially called it for the slashing option for DNC. Just last week, he and others got hell for suggesting DNC in Kalunga fight would have produced a better outcome than other meta methods. He's far from a person who clings to whatever the meta is, quite the opposite actually. Think you're reading the responses totally wrong.

Anyways, I don't see anything we've stated as critical. I am the first person to play in an impractical setting if all it is for is having fun. I have built high HP sets for NIN, SCH staff builds for solo 4-stepping Fomors in Sortie, COR and DRK cure potency sets (I've never used yet), RDM and NIN shooting sets for Arebati KI1, SAM Counter Tanking sets, BST & BLM scythe builds, you name it. All because it's fun or it's something I wanted to do. I just wouldn't suggest to others it's something that could change anything in the meta though. I also wouldn't mention current content like Sortie WS walls or Segs or whatever if it was something that didn't make sense (like dropping your accuracy by 400 just to hit blunt resist mobs), as if my own fun projects would change that kind of perception. If you play with friends and they let you play with them however you want, go for it. It's different to say "I did 70k Fast Blade II with max buffs possible" and share that with the anecdote that it was fun, but have to keep it in context. There's no scenario that information would even be used by others besides exploiting max buffs for high numbers. It's not new information or groundbreaking points, just side projects you've done that were interesting to you. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not criticism, just keeping it in perspective.