Which Aeonics Are Job Changing?

as an avid lover of ambu gaxe, mostly on drk than on war, the varied TP bonus does have an impact if you're the one taking damage, though this varies by content as older stuff wont be doing much to swing your HP outside of TP moves.

Overall just gonna echo that any of the weapons bar maybe the gs/sword can do you well, though i personally put h2h(mnk/pup tp gain is the worst among DDs and just about all of the weapons good WS are dmg varies) and katana(hybrids, makes a decent light sc to burst) above the others but personal pref. Horns the bar none best 1st pick if you have any interest in brd

#1 Godhands

Ain’t the MNK’s fault it don’t perform in Odyssey or Sortie. That’s on Square Enix for their half-assed content design. If they just gave the weapons proper utility — Vereth for piercing, Godhands for slashing, Sagitta or Spharai for blunt — hell, that job would be damn viable. Might even be fun switchin' weapons based on what you’re facin’.

In Dynamis? MNK with Godhands is the only one I’ve seen keep up with PRIME-DDs and Naegling users. Hell, sometimes you even spook ‘em with the parse.

#2 Doji

If you know how to run SAM and chain multi-SCs, this weapon slaps. PRIME-MASA might be better, sure, but they’re a damn pain to forge.

#3 Chango

Only if you’re a damn romantic. 90% of the time you’ll be glued to Naegling anyway.

Now, if you’re lucky enough to have a PRIME? Good for you, toss that damn sword and feel like a real WAR again. Back before Naegling, Chango was a straight-up glass cannon. Even left Ukon in the dust on the parse.

But ever since Square Enix started handin’ out ultimate weapons like chips in a damn Doritos bag, balance went straight to hell, 'round 2019 give or take.

Personally, I’d kill for a new stage upgrade for REMAs. This new Limbus content? Could’ve been the perfect damn chance.

Doji for spamming Jinpu to EP your other char's jobs cannot be undervalued either.

It's already been partially addressed, but honor march, while insanely good, is not actually those 4 songs combined. 3 of those 4 are also lower tier songs that are very rarely used, so it's a little strange to say it's 4 songs.

Sword madrigal is almost twice as powerful as honor march for melee accuracy, especially with merits, and it's the lower tier madrigal.

Hunter's prelude is also almost twice as potent for ranged accuracy and is also the lower tier prelude.

Advancing march, while not TOO significantly stronger than honor march, is also stronger and is also the lower tier haste song.

Minuet v, as was pointed out by others, is also automatically stronger than honor march unless you're unmastered.

So while it's nice to combine these effects into one and it's basically always worth a slot in any melee setup, it's not really worth the same as 4 songs. Maybe 2-2.5, best case scenario.

This is some horse ***logic. It is 4 buffing effects, and your logic would only be relevant if it was having to compete for a song slot, which it's not because nothing competes with it. Also, its base effects are roughly the same as the songs I listed's base effects. Again, it's the designed limitation of Honor March vs. other songs, not being able to get as much Song+.

Also because all of its effects are gonna x1.5 because it's THE song you're going to Marcato, it becomes basically 4 songs even by your standards. You're never gonna Marcato anything else once you have it, except highly niche sleeping/debuff scenarios.

Even if I entertained your stupid notions, those songs aren't, "almost twice as strong." Honor March at +4 has roughly 3/4ths their potency at +8/9. 58/85(90, we can knock this one down to 2/3rds if it'll make you happy), 58/81, 16.99/18.95, 232/248.
(yeah I included Minuet V with Merits/JP). This means it's worth no less than 3.42 songs even before Marcato.

With Marcato, because you're not dumb those go up to:
87, 87, 25.48, and 348. Making it worth roughly 5 songs under Marcato.

99% of the time you're going to rely on capping magic haste. Yes, there are scenarios where you can still hit the haste cap without capping magic haste, but its a tall order to expect everyone to have the same amount of JA haste available and rendering the need to cap magic haste moot. Also some of these JA haste abilities cant be fulltimed (Last Resort, Wuffi going splat), its easier to just cap magic haste and let JA haste overflow.

So you either:
Have Haste 1, which still requires two marches casted to hit the magic haste cap
or
Have Haste2, which only requires Honor March to hit haste cap.

Marcato does change the situation slightly, but you're still going to Marcato Honor March for the potency increase to acc and attack, on top of the haste.

Lot of good comments already, but to add my two cents:

Heishi: If you really love NIN, you will not be disappointed in the Aeonic. Best all-around katana in the game, and using it (in conjunction with Nyame B armor) truly is game-changing for NIN in that it unlocks the most power for hybrid WS (Chi/To/Teki), which will be NIN's best damage option on mobs that don't resist elemental. And you do see that in viable current endgame stuff - segement farms, Dyna, Apex mobs, etc. Oh, and Heishi is ALSO generally the best damage katana aside from Prime for physical WS (Ten and Shun, mainly) - and Aeonic still remains competitive with Prime. The only downside is that NIN is still not part of the "meta" for endgame stuff other than the occaisional ambuscade, so your mileage may vary depending on what kinds of activities you do and who you play with (and how accepting they are of you being on NIN).

Chango: Super fun to use, and an excellent Great Axe. Gains TP like nobody's business, awesome self SCs, GA has access to nice utility with Armor Break. Downside: you can also do great DPS with a Naegling, so having a different strong weapon that doesn't really do much that's terribly unique (other than dish out lots of damage) isn't really game changing. I think Chango is a hell of a lot more fun though (my favorite weapon to use on my WAR, though I know I'd have a blast with Ukonvasara too but just don't have one of those). Undeniably a solid Aeonic pick.

Lionheart: Wildly outdated. Was super useful back when Aeonics were new and people were using RUN as a DD on dangerous fights because of it's sturdiness, and trying to push out more DPS from the job. Now, with every job having access to strong defensive armor from Odyssey and Empy reforge, RUN's ability to fill the role of sturdier frontline melee is not special (and it does less damage than those other jobs). Oh, and Epeolatry got a big DPS boost from augments to erode Lionheart's offensive edge, as well as Resolution not keeping up in an era of increasingly available WSD options. And a serious RUN will want Epeo anyway for its gigantic defensive benefits. IMO, one of the last Aeonics you'd want to pick in 2025.

Fomalhaut: Good weapon. As Celebrindal said, the BULLETS are elite tier even if you never fire the gun. And the gun's not bad either, an excellent option when you need physical WS/Last Stand, and solid for stuff like Leaden/Trueflight too with the TP Bonus. Can absolutely do stuff like 1-shot statue kills in Dynamis-Divergence with a Fomalhaut. Fomalhaut isn't necessarily the best weapon for COR RNG outside of Last Stand fights, but it's never bad (generally always a top 2-3 choice) and an upgrade from non-REMA. Oh, and it's a good weapon option for TWO jobs, if you like both RNG and COR.

Marsyas: Honor March is amazing, and is going to be expected of a serious endgame BRD. Thing is, you'll also be expected to have the Empy harp, and the Mythic (or can get by with Miracle Cheer I suppose). So if you're OK going all in on REMA Bard, this is one of the mutiple REMA's you'll want. If you don't particularly love playing BRD, you might not prioritize this one. If you do love BRD, this is a no-brainer and should be one of your highest Aeonic priorities.

Really, if you like playing the job, any of the above other than Lionheart is a reasonable pick. Marsyas and Heishi are the bigger upgrades for their respective jobs, but one of those jobs is very popular in any endgame content and the other just isn't (but if you love NIN, freaking go for it).

Quick notes of the ones you didn't specifically ask about:

Excellent DD weapon options for their jobs: Godhands, Trishula, Doji (less impactful if you already have Masamune or think you'll get Stage 4+ Prime, but still very good - and retains a niche for hybrids/multistep SCs).

Not the best for their jobs, but still solid weapons that are better than non-REMAs: Aeneas, Anguta, Tishtrya (if a melee WHM GEO club that isn't Prime is something you care about).
- Srivatsa is a nice all-around PLD shield, though value is diluted a bit due to the strength of the fairly easily attained Stage 3 Prime (Duban).
- Fail-Not isn't especially useful as a weapon (Flaming Arrow builds can be fun, though rarely optimal), but worth noting that Chrono Arrows are fantastic - much like Fomalhaut giving great bullets. Problem is, Archery still kinda sucks if you don't have Prime bow.

Eh... maybe reconsider it unless you're just collecting for completion's sake: Sequence, Khatvanga, Tri-Edge

I would just like to shout out my ls mate, Billyscooter, who had made a Lionheart shortly after aeonics came out, and then thought it was good enough to make a second one. Whoops. lol

I made 2, idk why really... Best DD weapon for RUN to master with trusts I thought. Got me to master and ML20 so was somewhat useful. Wouldn't be surprised if Naegling was better...

I've made everything but shield, club, scythe, axe, bow off the top of my head.

That is until you get Aria of Passion and then you will be wanting to Marcato that.

Correct, marcato is used on Aria once you have that.

Not only is it a bigger boost than HM, it also makes Aria have similar timers as the rest of the songs which it won't without marcato.

So many tryhard wars in this thread lol what about armor break? what about the fact that upheaval does light with Savage and everybody is also savging? What about in a zerg youre doing might strikes and upheaval does great damage under mighty strikes?

A war isn't a war without a great axe. If any war is defaulting to savage blade in a party that doesn't already have a gaxe war then your not playing your job right.

Switching to GAxe doesn't win parses, guy.

What a silly question.

Chango parses way better than people give it credit for, especially with Aria boosting Upheaval.

When it comes to WAR, it’s all ‘bout the player’s mindset and the situation.

Farming Trash Mobs

Take Dynamis, Wave 1, 2, 3, or Odyssey. Naegling’s the king, man. With mid-tier buffs, you’re droppin’ 50k-60k like it’s nothin’. Compare that to Upheaval—same buffs, you’re lucky to hit 30k-35k at 2000 Effective TP, and you’re stuck waitin’ for 1250 TP to do it again. Naegling? Ain’t no waitin’. You just blast like a damn glass cannon. Now, Chango? Nobody’s usin’ that for Segment C farmin’ no more. Why? ‘Cause sometimes you leave the mob with a sliver of HP, and that can trigger some nasty TP moves. Screws up the whole run.

Bosses

Now, if we’re talkin’ Wave 2 bosses, Wave 3 mega bosses, or Odyssey heavies, I’m rollin’ with the Ukon. Straight up, I smoke those Chango WARs and Naegling DDs. Why? ‘Cause the Ukon’s a damn freight train. Starts slow, sure, but give it 50-60 seconds, and it’s rippin’ through everything. The longer the fight, the more that Ukon’s gonna tear ***up.

But usin’ Ukon for farmin’ minions in Dynamis or Odyssey? That’s crazy talk. Naegling or Chango’s where it’s at for those quick 20-30 second scraps. Ain’t no contest.

I call the Empyrean weapons the “Boss-Killers.” Tough fights, lastin’ a decent chunk of time? I’m always rockin’ ‘em, and they get the job done right.

Debuffin’ vs. Parsin’

This one’s all ‘bout how you think. You a team player? You’re gonna slap on Armor Break or Full Break, ‘specially if the fight’s a tough son of a ***. But the average WAR in 2025? Man, they’re married to that Naegling—sleep with it, eat with it, probably make out with it too. Ain’t switchin’ it out, not even if their life’s on the line. If you’re the leader and you tell ‘em to debuff, good luck. They’ll stare daggers at you like you just kicked their dog.

If we're comparing it against march 1, madrigal 1, and prelude 1, why don't we compare it against minuet 1? We're already giving it marcato for free and comparing it against non-marcato'd songs.

What about during SV when that marcato isn't relevant anymore?

Bringing up the fact that it only gets +4 and that somehow in a fantasy land where SE gave more + to it, it would be stronger, is a ridiculous premise. Let's look at the actual numbers in the game instead of theorizing about made up numbers.

Actual honor march is worth:
16.99 haste (59.38% of a march)
232 attack (93.55% of a minuet)
58 acc (48.74% of a madrigal)
58 racc (53.7% of a prelude), which isn't relevant 99.95% of the time.

Generously, 2.55 songs. If you ignore the prelude since the vast majority of events don't involve shooting and meleeing at the same time, it's a little under 2 songs. Hell, half the group probably doesn't even need the 58 accuracy either, but I guess putting your WAR at 1600 accuracy instead of 1540 is kind of helping so full credit there.

I already said it's an incredible song and sees a ton of use. It's not *** 5 songs though, that's just *** puffery.

Farming mobs in oddy and Dynamis-D is so irrelevant to anything. You act like that's the bulk ofendgame lol. Also, in those situations all savage is doing is padding your parse. Cam still one shot trash with a GA.

Um...really? I'm not sure I've ever seen a Chango WAR 1shot anything in dynamis or odyssey.

I guess with an Ukon you can white damage it down enough to "1 shot it" but this is an aeonic thread so I don't feel that's super relevant

I use Savage Blade on 1% HP monsters because it lets me win the parse.

This is not true, and the PrARSeee 1%%% gang really look like those sub 6M parse.

If you tab and only fight full HP mobs (like any decent player would), Naegling would still one-shoot them while Chango will require 2 WS to kill mobs. This is even more frequent on 3-4 floors.

Forget about parse and go for kill-count. Kill count, Naegling demolishes Chango. I remember this discussion in Chango vs Naegling thread and I challenged the Chango gang to go on a kill count vs me in Asura - got blocked instead! lol.

Segment parses are worthless.

I can hit close to 10mil on SAM, is it better than WAR....nope. Just SAM shits TP and can WS twice per mob. Same thing happens with K.Club DRGs, parse looks good but they aren't killing any faster.

IMO just use what's fun as long as it isn't a detriment to speed or efficiency.

Nobody cares if it takes 2x Upheavals to kill a monster. Especially if you have TP in 2 attack rounds.

They are killng faster. If the two main dds are doing 10m each, you are finishing your segfarm with over 5 mins left. Even if there are a lot of overflow, a lot that goes into high parses are actually real damage.

People like to pretend that the only way to do 8-9m is with overflow. In my group we tab, and I'm constantly WSing mobs with full hp.

High parse, super fast runs. When I go to chango, which is my favorite weapon, the run is noticeably different.

The parse discussion is also something very limited to FFXIAH, a whole lot of people don't even know about it. Especially pugs. They still prefer naegling over chango.

Oh I'm not trying to justify Chango in segments. Was just agreeing with you on segments in general and the fact that overkill is a big deal on the parse.

Chango does really well when you can SC or you are super buffed and can hit capped damage.

Khatvanga is pretty job changing.
You get it, then change jobs to something else.

I fully agreed with you. I just wanted to add that people tend to attribute super high parse on purely overflow. No, high parse means faster kill as well. It also means good DD. You are invited to do damage, you do damage, you did your job well.

I have never seen two main DDs doing over 8m damage in segfarm and not finishing with a good amount of time left.

In sum, if we change the goal post to "time left on the clock" to avoid the 1% parse overflow argument, Naegling would outperform Chango, considerably.

nvm there's no way to check parse because of the opening fudos

With all this talk about defrauding parses with overkill, where does Onion Sword III and Fast Blade II fit in?

Multi-hit so overkill stops at the hit that kills the mob.

(fast blade first WS, use savage for parse)