Flametongue/Ice Brand

These seem like very good (top tier?) offhand options (weather main handing Naegling or REMA)

Ice good for cleaving, Flame for melee, the additional proc seems like a significant dmg boost, can it be modified by any blu spells? (buffs or debuffs)? or setting jobs traits? (Macc/Matk)

The 30 STR and WSC mod seem like nice boosts too.

Is there any reason (beyond picking __ for ___ because ___) not to use these?

Being unable to use thibron, being the primary one

The accuracy and stats from the flametongue should be pretty good when you can't use the thibron due to accuracy constraints?

Been a while and since I'm not to sure what to get and really not excited for SAM options. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
Swords look like a fun option

They are probably the BiS offhand for BLU (and for RDM?) but some things to consider from the ongoing testing

1) The enspell damage works 100% of the times, even on additional hits
2) Its damage seems to be the related stat. Like if you have 300 STR, the enfire will do 300 per hit
3) "Enspell" you get overwrites it, even if it's weaker (wonder what happens with Auspice?)
4) Of course you can't turn it off so if you're doing fights where you need to avoid fire, ice or magic damage in general, they become unviable alas.


That put aside, they both look very nice.

I was eyeing it for RDM but am now having 2nd thoughts. I need to run some calculations because Gleti's is a pretty damn nice offhand. That dagger is way too good.. Even beating out Crep knife in several situations. RDM also has Ternion+1/Sakapata

Shield just seems too good for my jobs...

Kinda hate that.

Enfire staying on 100% of the time is also why I wanted it as an option. Excalibur/Flame Tongue looks like it can dish out some mean additional damage in situations where Enspells 1 is overwritten by other buffs.

As for BLU it seems really solid over all though.

Only Sakpata and Zant come to mind as alternatives.

I wish COR was on either of these

I'm guessing Air Knife probably works the same way as these? If so...


on a 150 delay is pretty dope for THF or DNC

Interesting. I imagine that Excalibur's additional effect takes precedence, and when it doesn't trigger, then Flametongue's fire damage kicks in? (..and then Enspell 1 overwrites both of these right?)

I main RDM. Would Naegling still be better than Flametongue in the mainhand? I triple box a cor and brd so shouldn't have problems hitting attack cap on most things. Flametongue has 21 damage over Naegling, and comes with 30 str, 5 PDL, and a 10% str mod. Can still offhand Thribron.

No question it's best in slot as an offhand for Excalibur. Can actually use enspell 2s as well.

I really don't want to get it if it's worse or barely better than Naegling. I am not good enough at math to theory craft. Wish it wasn't such a permanent choice! I will just get the darkblade for nin if Naegling is still comparable. If someone grabbed this I'd really appreciate some testing so so much.

rdm is still low on atk on its own as it has no atk buffs/traits, so you still get a lot of value of the atk buff on naegling, especially if something like aria is added in where youll need that additional atk again to hit higher pdl amounts.

Even with just a pocket brd/cor it can be hard to hit atk cap on stuff, geo was usually the clencher where frailty isnt nerfed(which is everywhere current these days) or having 1-2 sources of def down like blu/bst/dnc/def down ws

Enspell 2s don't even proc on multi-hits, and their damage scales with currently-equipped Enhancing skill, so... I don't think that would actually be optimal at all.


In general I'd be wary of using my kupon on any purely damage-oriented option, because those are the most likely to face obsolescence in the future, seeing as they're already glorified sidegrades or marginal situational upgrades.

The few options that provide unique, irreplaceable effects are the safest and most attractive long-term picks: Diamond Aspis, Onion Sword III (for DNC), Yagyu Darkblade, and to a lesser extent Miracle Cheer.

I don't know what other jobs you play or with what frequency. If you're someone who primarily plays RDM above all else, I'd probably lean toward Diamond Aspis for the 15 seconds of Saboteur duration. Could probably even mainhand swap burst each step of a multi-step solo SC with the skillchain extension effect, though that's just situational fun.

With Dia 3 and Light Shot I'm definitely still attack capped on most things. Maybe not V20+ Odyssey bosses or something, I'm noticing damage increases with Aria on Sortie basement bosses as well, so I'm riding a line there too. A lot of that has to do with Soul Voice being used on anything actually difficult I guess, But yeah, I'm fine with Naegling being situationally better.




Ah yes. Point taken on enspell 2s. I have NIN, RDM, and PLD. I plan on doing PUP soon. I am on RDM 90% of the time. I run a melee strategy in Sortie with a static group and always aim to improve my numbers. I don't see myself even being able to play nin in groups even with Darkblade. The fact Naegling has been relevant for as long as it has makes me think if Flametongue is a damage increase on Savage Blade over Naegling, I will be seeing a lot of use from it.

I definitely agree with your point that effect > small damage increase, which is why I'm kinda hoping Naegling is just better for savage blade and I can take the dark blade instead of feeling guilty everytime I play rdm. ?

Very hard to disagree with this point of view, honestly.

But Flametongue/Icebrand are in a kind of odd situation.
They can be very powerful DPS weapons, but they are also pretty powerful offhand, at least for when you can't use TPbonus ones.

The raw stats, the special elemental damage (which is quite powerful!) and last but not least the 10% modifier to WS stats.

It's... I dunno, kinda something in between. Judging them as "only" DPS weapons, is quite limiting.
With that said, I wholeheartedly agree with your general view on the topic, just wanted to emphasize this small aspecct.

You can just use Flametongue in the mainhand and still offhand Thibron. Flametongue is stronger than Naegling. And it is dispasstionate about which weaponskill you use, as well, since it applies the 10% STR WSC to all weaponskills and the PDL to all physical WSes, you can use it with Expiacion, CDC, Savage Blade, Requiescat etc. Offhand for any non-TP modulated WS like Knights of Round is also a consideration I guess.

RDM cares the least about it(I think) because of Crocea Mors, but Icebrand on the other hand might be uncontested best Sanguine Blade offhand since it stacks a buncha INT and further increases the INT WSC, and TP's effect on Sanguine only relates to how much HP it drains. (not sure how it stacks up with a fully aug'd R30 Bunzi Rod's 65 MAB, but I'm thinking it's at least competitive, and doing Odyssey is like pulling teeth these days).

I think BLU likes both.

PLD might enjoy Flametongue as well. Not many have talked about it, but for raw damage the enfire replaces Enlight II, and PLD has a way to I guess, "turn off" the enfire by casting Enlight if they need too.

Kinda curious about if either sword's WSC addition does anything to Atonement. It's such a funky weaponskill, and I kinda doubt it, but it'd be hilarious if it broke Atonement in someway and made enmity retention trivial.

Gonna keep loling at this every time you post it.

Laughing is healthy, so thank me when you live past 100, ok?

Naegling is the supreme slashing damage. The only thing capable of stopping Naegling is a hardcoded WS wall.

Only a subpar DD would think Flamethong can overtake Naegling. Probably thanks to skill issue.

No BLU worth their salt would main hand Flametongue over a Tizona, even if it did more damage per WS it'd be a huge DPS loss, as well as the MP utility loss. Not in a million years

Not every BLU has Tizona. /shrug

I feel like Ice Brand isn't as attractive when you realize Bunzi's rod exists.

Use both! (for cleaving)

A lot of undergeared players will be thinking what to get, I think flame would probably be a good melee choice while people are working on Naegling and to offhand when they get it.

Thib is terrible offhand for many people, especially if they are solo farming job points or something with trusts.

Think the issue is that you won't be undergeared forever [probably], so it's relative uselessness in late game is a tough sell for a one time prize. Onion Sword III is still a pretty solid sword if you're pre-naegling, but it has unique value later on as well.

They have access to Naegling and Naegling is much stronger.

This is the change vs naegling discussion all over again. People defending change even for segfarm using Naegling like the good hypotheticric they are.

You see how flamethong has taken over Rabao? So popular now I don't even see the green shiny murderer anymore.

Except that I haven't seen a single person using flamethong yet, cause nobody believes it's stronger than Naegling.

Your bait needs work, laddy.

Flametongue will never usurp the widespreadness of Naegling for a host of reasons.

1. It's only on 4 of the 13 Naegling jobs.
2. People can make Naegling anytime.
3. Some people like how Naegling looks and will style lock it even if it gets out done.

4. Naegling blows every other sword out of the water. Including Bonanza toys.

You truly feel 15% more savage blade damage, and the extra attack on ws is better than +21 damage, +30 str, 5 PDL, and 10% more str on ws? I feel like it would be comparable, at least. Naegling only has 166dmg vs Flametongues 187. This alone should be significant.

I'd really like to see some numbers from someone who went and got it. ?

Been posted to death. They're both fun as OH weapons. Main hand naegling savage wins 100% of the time with half decent non-trust buffs.

Has anyone posted numbers for how much Icebrand improves nuking damage over Maxentius (Assuming an R30 Bunzi in the other hand) for BLU? I think I recall one person saying they got 2.3k higher damage on Tenebral Crush?

Answering my own question since I ended up getting the Ice Brand and did a quick test. Seems to about 12% increase in my current gear.

Tested on: Apex Eruca. Numbers are from the same mob.

Ice Brand + Bunzi's Rod (R15):

14,421, 14,421, 14,421

Maxentius + Bunzi's Rod (R15):

12,723, 12,723, 12,723.

11.8% increase for the Ice Brand over the Maxentius.

Those were the first three casts, followed by the next three casts. After that there were discrepancies:

Ice Brand + Bunzi's Rod (R15):

14,469, 14,421

Maxentius + Bunzi's Rod (R15):

6361 (50% resist, full would've been 12,722 if multiplying by 2, 1 off from the 12,723s earlier), 11,451, 12,723.

That's just one mob but hopefully the information is useful.