Yagyu Darkblade

These are some interesting perspectives.
But I'll ask again and narrow the scope to shadows on any job.

When do shadows work well for any job in the current state of the game? Maju was a good example.

Whats not aoe heavy, dynamis is passible, where you could feasibly keep putting shadows up.

Not just dark blade or ninja specific as I think it would paint a better picture of the current landscape for shadow tech.

Segments, for one. It provides protection for BRD and COR if their WS doesn't one-shot a Nostos, since all of their moves are pretty much physical and non shadow-wiping. So long as it's not Draguars, Bhoots, Soulflayers, Flans, or anything that can cast AOE magic, shadows protects you well there, especially on Agon C4 Beastmen.

Most Ambuscades you can keep shadows up, if there's not a magic-caster in the mix, since most of those monsters are physical threats. Like that Relic Fomor one in particular where the PLD's AE can deal like 10k+ if it procs, killing even a PLD. NIN's shadows are invaluable for something like that where you can't afford to take a single hit. I mentioned Qutrub ambuscade since he has Endeath.

Any Apex/Locus monster you can block every one of their attacks with shadows, if it matters. Maybe Imps would be annoying.

Odin HTBF shadows are invaluable, it's actually a major strategy in being able to solo him on RDM using Enspell method. He never hits you, and you never feed him TP.

I've tanked all of the AAs in Escha-Ruaun way back on NIN. Most of their moves are blockable by shadows, and you don't want to be hit by one of their WS since it can still one-shot you. Galka is a complete pushover, Hume only has Mijin Gakure to worry about, Mithra is similarly a joke like Galka, AAEV can Banishga, but it's easy to predict and time shadows, so she normally can't hit you. AATT is the only one with a threat because he casts Meteor or whatever, but his normal moves can be absorbed by shadows (Agon Drive). These are monsters from an era where they didn't have access to AOE magical moves as much as the newer monsters do now.

There's a few UNM as well that shadows are perfect for. Glazemane has a stupidly annoying mechanic where you can't deal magic damage to him, but NIN can actually ignore this mechanic entirely by putting up Migawari and shadows and just spam SC nonstop. He can never break your shadows and Migawari protects you from whatever rage reaction move he uses. Or just savage blade and avoid SCing, he can't ever hit you.

Do you see Nin being preferred to another DD for.. let's say segments, just because they have Yagyu?

No, but Segments are a bad example. PUGs will want WARs and SAMs because they are lazy, and your friends won't care if you NIN because you're just having fun. There isn't anything that specifically seeks out NINs in the current meta, though it doesn't mean it can't be used. The Katana doesn't change that. in segments, if someone wants shadows, they will just sub nin. You can't even rely on a NIN main to give you shadows, because people split up and take different mobs in segments, so Utsusemi is going to miss them when they need it. It would also hurt the NIN's DPS a lot if all he is doing is constantly giving people shadows.

There would have to be a massive shift back to monsters that existed pre-adoulin (that's when mass magical AOE started on everything and shadows become less useful). Something something that sounds like Rimbus

Yagu just makes gaining enmity on targets easier, the protection isn't that big a deal because healers exist. Think of it like an enmity cheat button. Any time where you need shadows, everyone is going to already have shadows. I've seen NIN "tank" segments and it works well enough, the player just has to act like a tank and not try to be a DD that is tanking. Stay in turtle gear, focus strictly on holding hate and surviving.

A tanks #1 priority is holding hate, a tank that can't hold hate isn't. The #2 priority is surviving long enough for the fight to end. Anyone that can do both 1 and 2 is a "tank" and we're just down to arguing efficiency / quality.

Nin tank makes more sense tbh. I didn't think Nin could do it, the not dying part not the holding hate part.

Niche uses, but there are even a handful of Gaol fights where NIN "tank" or at least giving shadows to party members can be helpful - Aristaeus (T2 Chapuli) comes to mind.

Could certainly imagine some stuff like new Limbus (maybe Apex Ultima/Omega) where shadows could help either the tank themselves or the other frontline jobs.

If they release Omega and Ultima, that would definitely be something where shadows are useful for. One of the Sealed Fate strategies still uses shadows.

Definitely give people anxiety for not picking yagyu now for A&O v4 in 2027

If you play nin somewhat often and seriously, why would you NOT want the ability to do AOE Utsu in your back pocket?

Honestly, this katana just keeps getter better in my eyes.

It's rock solid in dynamis d for shrugging off Stat stomps for your entire party, and yesterday when the VD ambu orc went all crazy on the two dds and went hate wild, it was the ninja (with darkblade) that got control and tanked the entire party to safety until recovery.

This thing is much more useful then we realized. In my eyes it's top tier on the list.

I think the issue is whether it'd see more use than other options. I have both NIN and DNC geared, use both whenever possible, so it's a matter of whether OSIII or Yagyu is more practical/useful. They're both niche weapons that give both jobs more opportunity, so it's difficult to choose esp with new content on the horizon.

Like I said. FOMO.

I personally struggle with the idea of getting it for all the known obvious reasons as to not posted by everyone.

However as a person who has invested ALOT into the job because I genuinely love playing it and find it super fun, its hard to pass it up. I am quite torn on the piece tbh, hence why I haven't cashed in yet(realistically shield would be the other option I would consider for overall practical utility on 3 different jobs I play).

I am forever on the #makeninjagreatagain train so I'll probably get the katana because why not, but I'm not oblivious to the problem child that it is lol.

It's another tool in the toolbox really. Whether its practical or not... that's all any of these weapons are.

Question - does this item do something that no other item can do?

There's your answer. I feel the same way about this katana as I do about Yagrush. It just breaks all originally intended mechanics.

And I'm not fan-boying here. I didn't get it. But it is awesome.

The more optimal your typical group is, the less use you'll get out of something like Yagyu. However, it's probably also worth pointing out that the relative value of all of these weapons goes down to next to nothing if you can already clear all the content you're targeting easily.

I think it's neat. The mechanic is powerful enough that a slight balance change to NIN could result in it being really good.

Has anyone tested if wearing Hattori Kyahan as someone besides the caster still gets you the extra shadow? Just a curiosity there, don't think it has practical use, but since it doesn't effect when worn by the caster it might be in the receive buff step for the player.

I did get it, but I'll give the not entirely unreasonable counterpoint to that argument: this one rare item is the only way to change the mechanics of the related ability, but how often are you really in practical situations where that's actually useful to you?

Yagrush is useful frequently, since AoE status removal is something WHMs will do regularly. AG Gambanteinn also provides unique utility with its Cursna +100 (and is required to get guaranteed Cursna success), but that's a much less popular WHM REMA because its niche use comes up much less often. It's still the ideal piece for that use though, and hardcore WHMs will like having it. Yagyu Darkblade falls somewhere between those two pieces to me.

I do agree with the rationale of it being the ONLY way in the game to modify a core NIN spell in this way though. No regrets here with picking it (but I'm also biased toward NIN).

Yeah none of these weapons are "ground breaking" in any sense, they are all fun tools that let you do cool situational stuff. People are seriously stressing too hard, I think cause they know what they are going to chose, they just don't know that they know.

Of course people are nervous about picking one, we can't go earn another, there's no trade in system, bonanza remains terrible odds of winning and there's no guarantee they will give out another round next year.

On top of that you have a mix of very unique bonuses and just generally solid weapons.

Personally I'm much more interested in bonanza weapons than Prime weapons even though prime are generally much stronger the bonanza weapons offer unique bonuses that can change your play style.

I used this katana earlier to tank ambu over the traditional tank. It's doable and quite fun. Not optimal and doesn't replace pld/run, but Ambuscade at this point in the game is beginner/mid tier content, so it's the perfect place to try a Ninja tank. Ambuscade also follows the unique Legion hate rules where you don't need to physically tag individual mobs, so merely casting an AOE utsusemi was enough to grab everything and keep it. It's literally the only thing I did all fight, besides Blade Ten on one of the adds the group was fighting.

I still need to work on some of my high hp/defensive sets to help mitigate more damage, so I'm sure it could be even better than I performed, but as a hate tool, this weapon is unmatched. Fudo C/Yagyu with Yonin active and I never lost hate on anything except when main did a hate reset (or I got charmed once), but was quickly recaptured by another Utsu spell. Also funny is I managed to die from Orchish Counterstance attacks, got an arise, Mijin Gakure (weakness removed), got back up and after one Utsusemi, was able to reclaim hate on the surviving few mobs and finish the fight.

Ninja is a cool job that can do pretty nice tricks and is a ton of fun. I'm going to continue using Ninja and this weapon in a variety of situations to see where else it might have value, but as I originally stated and expected for years, I still don't think this changes anything about Ninja as far as content is concerned, but it's ultra fun to use, so that in itself was worth the grab for me. Maybe Limbus opens up another opportunity to get Ninja back to tanking, or something like Besieged 15 (if we go back to partying for it). But the fun factor and uniqueness is top of the list for me with this katana

I feel like this is one of the better picks, it can be fun and most of these aren't game breaking anyway.

I asked earlier, but no one actually tried and tested it, it would be nice if it did.

I find it hard to imagine a scenario when you're out of shadows and all your utsusemi are on cooldown and you also have a second nin in your group with a yagyu.

I would test it but none of my other characters have NIN gear. I can try to ask a friend to help me test it but in advance: I would be EXTREMELY skeptical that this would work

I used it in a PT, with the PT buffs addon icon says 3 next to PT members.
Testing with Gearswap unloaded and Hattori Kyahan +1 equiped.
PT member said their shadow icon is 3.
So that's the answer to PT members shadows with feet equiped.

Did the other party member have the feet on?

If they hadn't *** Ninja with another weak REMA the Bonanza Katana would have been the best pick.

The fact that Prime Katana sucked made the Katana less appealing, since Ninja is now sitting in between two strong tanks and a plethora of good DDs.

Prime Katana sucking just makes it so there isn't an expectation that you need Prime Katana. IDK, I kinda find that to be a good thing.

You could go back to the previous ultimate weapon set and note that NIN got a fantastic Aeonic. Generally the strongest option for physical katana WS, and amazing for hybrids - which are NIN's optimal DPS choice as long as your target isn't resistant to earth/ice/water hybrids. And, much like with SAM, I think a lot of people are coming around more to that approach (which has become easier to gear for and FAR more effective as we've gained access to ranked up Nyame). Like, I bring NIN to segments and it doesn't fall that far behind my Masa/Doji/Shining One SAM or my Chango/Naegling/club WAR - I certainly don't feel like a massive liability.

TBH, this allows people to gear a very strong NIN relatively easily - for mainhands you grab an Aeonic and Su4/Su5, for offhands you have your can pick up the Yagyu Darkblade for support or tanking, and a Kunimitsu (Odyssey T2, and a strong offhand even at R15) for more DD focus. And then you have all your bases covered very well. Can add on stuff like a Gleti's Knife for piercing, a TP Bonus katana offhand.

Ahem...I would disagree that Dokoku "sucks". It is on par with Savage Blade for NIN in the same buff scenario, with the added benefit of being able to 3 step light on its own. Now you can say "but NIN could self light before" yea I know, but Shun and certainly Kamu are nowhere near as hard hitting as Zesho. I'd hardly say that sucks.

Is it underwhelming? Yes, to an extent. I brought mine to stage 4 and while I am not blown away by it, I am still glad to have it. It's a nice tool in the toolbox. If I had the guts to stage 5 it I may have but my team would have taken my head off for it so I went dagger stage 5 instead :D

You are using TP bonus katana offhand with it as well, and it does pretty well with hybrids + the fact that zesho and chi/teki/to have some nice SC combinations makes it a fun weapon.

Does Prime Katana "suck"? Hmm, I mean, sure it's weaker* than Naegling. For sure Hybrids destroy* Zesho Meppo. And yes, Ruthless Stroke's fTP poops all over it. So yes, not amazing. But I think the ability to make a strong 3-step double Level 3 at reasonable strength is still useful, given than NIN also has the ability to MB a couple of times afterwards.

Prime Katana could have been made better, and I think it's silly the grind someone has to endure to make a weapon that isn't the best, but it's still going to be your strongest Katana you can make in the game for physical. What really "sucks" is that it's inferior to Naegling, but once you throw in the SC factor, I don't think that's the case. If Naegling never existed, without changing anything about Dokoku, we wouldn't say it sucks. But for that kind of grind, yeah, demoralizing (still might stage 4 one someday)

edit: i was drafting while Luna posted, but ya

Is it? Playing around in the sim, I still get stage 4 losing consistently to Heishi and Blade: Ten. Even stage 5 is basically a sidegrade to Heishi. There's some value in the additional SC utlity, sure. But that's a pretty hefty time investment needed for a fairly niche use.

So while there may be some situations where you can make intelligent use of Prime... I go back to my main point, that it's not really considered a must have item for the job. It's more of a niche tool for the NIN mega-enthusiast IMO. I don't find that to be a bad thing.

I don’t have sim results, and my “evidence” is anecdotal but I find this extremely hard to believe (respectfully, capuchin because I trust your ninja knowledge a lot). I’ve hit numbers with Dokoku/zesho that I never did with Heishi/ten, and then there’s the 3 step light nature of zesho to factor in as well.


Edit: I’m bored today and have some time so I am going to parse out some Heishi/ten vs Dokoku/zesho with a brd alt buffing and see what I get and will report back.