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Which weapon should I get i'm too stupid to pick!
 Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10164
By Asura.Saevel 2025-05-18 15:06:15
Naegling's atk bonus still doesn't win on WS there either, pal. It doesn't extend atk beyond capped attack, so it doesn't matter. You silly billy.
Depends on the job, the jobs that rely on Naegling the most are the ones that have the hardest time with attack. COR's, BRD's and RDM's aren't exactly swimming in large attack bonus JT/JA's.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10164
By Asura.Saevel 2025-05-18 15:11:31
The only slashing damage capable of outparsing Naegling duhuh Savage Blade is REMA with skillchains (in situations where you can SC). I'm making Laphria just so I can have a slashing damage that's equivalent to Naegling. They still come close if you aren't SCing with Laphria.
WAR/NIN Onion + Ikenga was doing very silly numbers at a very high rate of speed, it's guaranteed +2 hits per WS. Do not underestimate the power of +PDL from a few pieces of Sakpata.
RDM/NIN Onion + Thibron was also able to get silly numbers but was extremely random. Similar +2 MA per WS average, but due to relying on a combo of TA/DA it would vary anywhere between 3 to 7 hits. The downside is that the second MA roll use's the offhand base DMG of Thibron, not as powerful as the main hand MA roll. RDM has a much harder time getting +PDL.
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Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6
By Ragnarok.Twinsevens 2025-05-18 15:54:45
Any chance you could feel out how WAR/DRG does with Onion and blurred? Not counting on it beating out Naegling, but would love to know how the SB/FB2 light sc holds up over time against Naegling SB spam!
By Godfry 2025-05-18 16:16:43
The only slashing damage capable of outparsing Naegling duhuh Savage Blade is REMA with skillchains (in situations where you can SC). I'm making Laphria just so I can have a slashing damage that's equivalent to Naegling. They still come close if you aren't SCing with Laphria.
WAR/NIN Onion + Ikenga was doing very silly numbers at a very high rate of speed, it's guaranteed +2 hits per WS. Do not underestimate the power of +PDL from a few pieces of Sakpata.
RDM/NIN Onion + Thibron was also able to get silly numbers but was extremely random. Similar +2 MA per WS average, but due to relying on a combo of TA/DA it would vary anywhere between 3 to 7 hits. The downside is that the second MA roll use's the offhand base DMG of Thibron, not as powerful as the main hand MA roll. RDM has a much harder time getting +PDL.
Yeah, these are the takes that make sense. Also, how FB+SB = light when you can. Have a job with Onion open to a strong Naegling SB to make a strong light.
Just pretending that Bonanza weapon are going to outparse Naegling is stupid. The WS wall was created around Naegling. That's how strong this silly weapon is.
Also, what people don't like to take into account is how low-effort high damage Naegling is. You don't even need to create outstanding scenarios for it to do good damage.
I'm just glad to hear Laphria can actually outparse it so I'd never have to equip this BS weapon on my war again.
By SimonSes 2025-05-18 16:37:31
Bruh
You said "just above 1000TP". Dont change the definition of "just above" to mean "3/4ths of the way to 2000TP" to protect the local RMT because I've made it a habit of dunking on stupid people like him.
This obviously matters for a WS like Savage where the TP gains between 1k and 2k are significantly higher than the TP gains between 2k and 3k, and you have more to gain by doing a handful more SB's in the 1000-1250 range rather than 1500-1750 range.
Bruh I don't defend anyone or changing definition of anything. Just above 1000tp is the target TP you want to WS at, but it's pretty obvious, that you can't control going even past 1500 occasionally if you 2x triple attack while being at 900TP. So every time you say you check Sim at 2000tp for example, it means you wait for at least 2000tp, because you can't guarantee not going way past that, unless you have no multi attack at all and some xhit build that puts you at exactly 2000.
By Godfry 2025-05-18 16:49:39
Bruh
You said "just above 1000TP". Dont change the definition of "just above" to mean "3/4ths of the way to 2000TP" to protect the local RMT because I've made it a habit of dunking on stupid people like him.
This obviously matters for a WS like Savage where the TP gains between 1k and 2k are significantly higher than the TP gains between 2k and 3k, and you have more to gain by doing a handful more SB's in the 1000-1250 range rather than 1500-1750 range.
Bruh I don't defend anyone or changing definition of anything. Just above 1000tp is the target TP you want to WS at, but it's pretty obvious, that you can't control going even past 1500 occasionally if you 2x triple attack while being at 900TP. So every time you say you check Sim at 2000tp for example, it means you wait for at least 2000tp, because you can't guarantee not going way past that, unless you have no multi attack at all and some xhit build that puts you at exactly 2000.
Every time SimonSes posts...
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 28
By Asura.Sylveni 2025-05-18 16:51:09
There's no way SE isn't reading these chats without plans to add more chaos <3
By SimonSes 2025-05-18 16:56:42
The only slashing damage capable of outparsing Naegling duhuh Savage Blade is REMA with skillchains (in situations where you can SC). I'm making Laphria just so I can have a slashing damage that's equivalent to Naegling. They still come close if you aren't SCing with Laphria.
WAR/NIN Onion + Ikenga was doing very silly numbers at a very high rate of speed, it's guaranteed +2 hits per WS. Do not underestimate the power of +PDL from a few pieces of Sakpata.
RDM/NIN Onion + Thibron was also able to get silly numbers but was extremely random. Similar +2 MA per WS average, but due to relying on a combo of TA/DA it would vary anywhere between 3 to 7 hits. The downside is that the second MA roll use's the offhand base DMG of Thibron, not as powerful as the main hand MA roll. RDM has a much harder time getting +PDL.
Yeah, these are the takes that make sense. Also, how FB+SB = light when you can. Have a job with Onion open to a strong Naegling SB to make a strong light.
Just pretending that Bonanza weapon are going to outparse Naegling is stupid. The WS wall was created around Naegling. That's how strong this silly weapon is.
Also, what people don't like to take into account is how low-effort high damage Naegling is. You don't even need to create outstanding scenarios for it to do good damage.
I'm just glad to hear Laphria can actually outparse it so I'd never have to equip this BS weapon on my war again.
I'm not sure if you are really thinking this through. The only thing that makes Savage stronger on Naegling specifically in capped attack scenario is 15% bonus to Savage damage.
Flametongue has +10% str wsc, 5%pdl, 21 higher base damage and +30 STR. I can easily see Flametongue Savage beating Naegling Savage if you cap attack with both (which is obviously harder with Flametongue, but perfectly possible in high buff scenario).
By Godfry 2025-05-18 17:02:53
I'm not sure if you are really thinking this through. The only thing that makes Savage stronger on Naegling specifically in capped attack scenario is 15% bonus to Savage damage.
Flametongue has +10% str wsc, 5%pdl, 21 higher base damage and +30 STR. I can easily see Flametongue Savage beating Naegling Savage if you cap attack with both (which is obviously harder with Flametongue, but perfectly possible in high buff scenario).
When you summon SimonSes and he starts attacking you instead of the enemy.
Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16151
By Asura.Vyre 2025-05-18 17:06:58
 Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2025-05-18 17:09:25
Quote: specifically in capped attack scenario It's not that naegling is stronger than flametongue, it isn't
Lower base damage, lower STR, and 15% WSD is a wash against 10% STR and 5% PDL
Where it loses, is 30% attack bonus from pro shell firestorm 5 songs 4 rolls embrava regen haste phalanx berserk food RR warcry
Situations gonna situate
By SimonSes 2025-05-18 17:09:26
Just checked sim for BLU with Naegling and Flametongue both using Savage in capped attack scenario. They have pretty much identical DPS and WS damage, but sim doesn't count that additional effect fire damage, so Flametongue would be slightly ahead because of that.
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By Atrox78 2025-05-18 17:10:40
At the end of the day, I always use expiacion at 1750 tp with tp bonus sword and using it at 2k with Flametongue is more damage. It's a good off hand or even main hand. I'm happy with my pick and like the additional acc and little proc. For those who are curious or on the fence, it's a good sword. It's not game breaking, maybe not the best in a simulator but not bad and you won't be disappointed if you pick it.
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By SimonSes 2025-05-18 17:13:43
Quote: specifically in capped attack scenario
Yeah and like I said, capping with Flametongue is harder, because you lack Naegling's unique attack buff and Flametongue also pushes required attack higher with additional 5% PDL. That being said jobs that can use Flametongue have either low PDL in Savage set (BLU, RDM, PLD) or has a lot of native attack (WAR), so capping attack in many scenarios where that matters, will be perfectly possible.
By Godfry 2025-05-18 17:16:09
Just checked sim for BLU with Naegling and Flametongue both using Savage in capped attack scenario. They have pretty much identical DPS and WS damage, but sim doesn't count that additional effect fire damage, so Flametongue would be slightly ahead because of that.
I wonder what it would be with Ephramad. Cause the feature that's putting Flame ahead is the PDL, right? I don't think that that's a good comparison if that's the case. We can create a scenario where MPU will outparse Naegling since it has PDL.
I'm legitimately just curious. Not arguing back.
By SimonSes 2025-05-18 17:18:49
At the end of the day, I always use expiacion at 1750 tp with tp bonus sword and using it at 2k with Flametongue is more damage. It's a good off hand or even main hand. I'm happy with my pick and like the additional acc and little proc. For those who are curious or on the fence, it's a good sword. It's not game breaking, maybe not the best in a simulator but not bad and you won't be disappointed if you pick it.
I don't think it looks bad in sim. Only 20% behind Thribon in offhand actually surprised me. You are loosing DPS waiting for 1750 with Tizona/Thribon though. You are boosting your WS damage by maybe 10-15% why decreasing WS frequency by way more.
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By SimonSes 2025-05-18 17:20:13
Just checked sim for BLU with Naegling and Flametongue both using Savage in capped attack scenario. They have pretty much identical DPS and WS damage, but sim doesn't count that additional effect fire damage, so Flametongue would be slightly ahead because of that.
I wonder what it would be with Ephramad. Cause the feature that's putting Flame ahead is the PDL, right? I don't think that that's a good comparison if that's the case. We can create a scenario where MPU will outparse Naegling since it has PDL.
I'm legitimately just curious. Not arguing back.
The set I was using for that sim has Emphramad, Sroda ring and Crepuscular pebble.
EDIT: and is also uses non SV Aria, so it's as much Naegling friendly as possible.
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By Godfry 2025-05-18 17:23:47
Just checked sim for BLU with Naegling and Flametongue both using Savage in capped attack scenario. They have pretty much identical DPS and WS damage, but sim doesn't count that additional effect fire damage, so Flametongue would be slightly ahead because of that.
I wonder what it would be with Ephramad. Cause the feature that's putting Flame ahead is the PDL, right? I don't think that that's a good comparison if that's the case. We can create a scenario where MPU will outparse Naegling since it has PDL.
I'm legitimately just curious. Not arguing back.
The set I was using for that sim has Emphramad, Sroda ring and Crepuscular pebble.
EDIT: and is also uses non SV Aria, so it's as much Naegling friendly as possible. Hmmm Flame might be absolutely amazing for sortie then!
Valefor.Aspens
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 50
By Valefor.Aspens 2025-05-18 17:40:39
*stirs pot*
how's the reforged flametongue compare
everyone: complains about naegling
SE: huh, I guess they want to savage blade HARDER
By Godfry 2025-05-18 18:13:49
Flamethong with Savage Blade II... now we are talking.
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By Dodik 2025-05-18 18:21:38
Does reforged flametongue break the 99k cap?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1033
By Asura.Iamaman 2025-05-18 19:03:59
Flamethong with Savage Blade II... now we are talking.
There's a ginger joke here but I'm not sure what it is
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10164
By Asura.Saevel 2025-05-18 19:16:35
Ragnarok.Twinsevens said: »Any chance you could feel out how WAR/DRG does with Onion and blurred? Not counting on it beating out Naegling, but would love to know how the SB/FB2 light sc holds up over time against Naegling SB spam!
Not sure why you'd be doing fencer with Onion Sword. Fencer came about due to Gaol stripping our SJ and forcing us into them. Then people realized how low effort it was for the payoff and used them everywhere. In this case that offhand hit is worth about 25% before counting stats and TP gain speed.
 Bismarck.Dekusutaa
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 498
By Bismarck.Dekusutaa 2025-05-18 20:26:39
Does the flametouge WS bonus, and physical limit + stats stats work off hand?
BG says the following:
Stat bonus applies to all weaponskills even when equipped in the offhand (sub) slot.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5034
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2025-05-18 20:30:24
Yes they all do (ice/flamebrand, air knife)
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Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10164
By Asura.Saevel 2025-05-18 20:38:53
Bismarck.Dekusutaa said: »Does the flametouge WS bonus, and physical limit + stats stats work off hand?
BG says the following:
Stat bonus applies to all weaponskills even when equipped in the offhand (sub) slot.
Yes it works in the off hand like Utu Grip.
By Odin.Upbeat 2025-05-18 22:47:19
Has anyone tried virelai with the brd instrument?
Would be a massive difference
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Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2025-05-18 22:49:29
I would say it's hard to believe so many people either can't understand what the damn thing says, can't read it, or don't read it.
But it's not hard at all. And it makes me have the sads.
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Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16151
By Asura.Vyre 2025-05-18 22:50:45
*stirs pot*
how's the reforged flametongue compare
everyone: complains about naegling
SE: huh, I guess they want to savage blade HARDER Oh it was never about departing from Savage Blade. Curilla teaches it, and I love her. And I've loved Savage Blade since late 2006.
It's about giving the middle finger to Naegling!
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The thread;
Fight to the death about which free mog bonanza weapon you're picking.
Miracle Cheer and Sage's Staves bout to be EVERYWHERE *(on multiboxes, not mains)
IF you get a Miracle Cheer and use Singer, you need to alter the file to add it @ line 253
local extra_song_harp = {
[22249] = 3, -- Miracle Cheer}
Also alter line 109
This line is going to be different based on the gear you have, but around 260.
local dur = 260
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