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FFXI, Horizon, Conflict, Renaissance, and You.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 177
By Asura.Gweivyth 2023-12-18 19:39:19
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »They had been getting C&Ds for years, and ignoring them because they were hosted in Russia and Russian hosting companies don't care about international copyright claims.
Sorry, what did you mean when you said this? That they had no reason to care about whether or not it was or was not illegal. They shut down because they had ulterior motives, it had nothing to do with legality.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6
By Asura.Cummies 2023-12-21 07:40:55
who gives a ***if its illegal or not
it doesn't matter until SE decides it does
My Armchair Lawyer rehtoric is better than yours.
Asura.Natenn
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2023-12-21 07:50:02
When retail shuts down i can see all the retail stans on catseye talking about how its the greatest as they cling to free relic upon sign in while going through old posts here deleting ps bashing they did.
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Asura.Rekcuf
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 219
By Asura.Rekcuf 2023-12-21 07:51:15
When retail shuts down i can see all the retail stans on catseye talking about how its the greatest as they cling to free relic upon sign in while going through old posts here deleting ps bashing they did. says the guy that bought gill to make his excalibur and every weapon.
But than again what is the point of that statement we are talking about whoreizon
Asura.Natenn
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2023-12-21 08:00:16
When retail shuts down i can see all the retail stans on catseye talking about how its the greatest as they cling to free relic upon sign in while going through old posts here deleting ps bashing they did. says the guy that bought gill to make his excalibur and every weapon.
But than again what is the point of that statement we are talking about whoreizon Buy gil? i had GS100+6 and crafted most of the day + sold all SW/Ixion drops
Asura.Rekcuf
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 219
By Asura.Rekcuf 2023-12-21 08:02:08
When retail shuts down i can see all the retail stans on catseye talking about how its the greatest as they cling to free relic upon sign in while going through old posts here deleting ps bashing they did. says the guy that bought gill to make his excalibur and every weapon.
But than again what is the point of that statement we are talking about whoreizon Buy gil? i had GS100+6 and crafted most of the day + sold all SW/Ixion drops a samurai who have played with you in the past told me lol,
Bahamut.Negan
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2409
By Bahamut.Negan 2023-12-21 09:05:06
who gives a ***if its illegal or not FO REALLLLL DOE
Asura.Natenn
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2023-12-21 09:12:09
When retail shuts down i can see all the retail stans on catseye talking about how its the greatest as they cling to free relic upon sign in while going through old posts here deleting ps bashing they did. says the guy that bought gill to make his excalibur and every weapon.
But than again what is the point of that statement we are talking about whoreizon Buy gil? i had GS100+6 and crafted most of the day + sold all SW/Ixion drops a samurai who have played with you in the past told me lol, he talking out of his *** then, also lol you just take his word w/o any actual evidence
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5403
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-12-21 09:22:26
You played on Asura
Thats all the evidence I need
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Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2399
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2023-12-21 11:07:13
Asura player: I didn't buy Gil
Then plays on a free server with NQ gear and says
Look what I earned in a year on an illegal private server herp derp.

You must not know who I am... lmao
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By Setsuko 2023-12-21 14:19:44
I always thought it was funny how people would give others ***for buying gil. It's like how in old BG, we would swear up and down that we weren't cheating at HNMs but we 100% were haha As soon as I joined the ls someone sent me a file and was like "this is the bot we use." Deny doing it while actually doing it. Adding a note that I never cheated on a private server though and reported my own members when I caught them cheating. For whatever reason, RMTing and botting just seems way worse on a PS than on retail, maybe due to the much smaller community.
Ragnarok.Trixi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 130
By Ragnarok.Trixi 2023-12-21 14:32:40
I always thought it was funny how people would give others ***for buying gil. It's like how in old BG, we would swear up and down that we weren't cheating at HNMs but we 100% were haha As soon as I joined the ls someone sent me a file and was like "this is the bot we use." Deny doing it while actually doing it. Adding a note that I never cheated on a private server though and reported my own members when I caught them cheating. For whatever reason, RMTing and botting just seems way worse on a PS than on retail, maybe due to the much smaller community.
Believe it or not, some of us didn't/don't cheat/rmt.
Asura.Natenn
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2023-12-21 14:48:12
I'm flattered you think i have the money to buy gil though :)
By ilugmat 2023-12-21 17:48:03
I always thought it was funny how people would give others ***for buying gil. It's like how in old BG, we would swear up and down that we weren't cheating at HNMs but we 100% were haha As soon as I joined the ls someone sent me a file and was like "this is the bot we use." Deny doing it while actually doing it. Adding a note that I never cheated on a private server though and reported my own members when I caught them cheating. For whatever reason, RMTing and botting just seems way worse on a PS than on retail, maybe due to the much smaller community.
Buying gil or botting is against the ToS of playing the game (these are also rampant on private servers), playing on a private server is literally theft and is similar to stealing cable or downloading a torrent for Elden Ring. You're playing a game that requires a monthly fee to play, you're stealing from the company that made it and runs it. You and others perform mental gymnastics to justify what you do, just as someone that is poor justifies smashing your car window to steal stuff from your car but you're still stealing.
Companies close games as a service down all the time, so if you have a company that is keeping a 20 year old game running and paying wages of the staff to do so, it's completely unacceptable to just steal it cause you wanna.
This whole normalization of private servers of a live game that has gone on is disgraceful honestly.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3373
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-12-21 18:00:37
I understand where you're coming from Ilugmat and I agree with your points generally, but the counterpoint is always:
"SE doesn't provide what I want, a classic server, therefore I/we had to create it on our own"
Immediately followed by:
"I wouldn't pay for retail anyway, I'm only after the classic experience, I don't actually like retail"
I understand these points as well, and won't bother trying to argue which one is a better experience because that's a matter of personal preference/taste.
What I disagree with though, is when you try to compare this to other products:
If Apple didn't design their laptops the way you like, you don't have a right to steal their design and make your own.
If you don't like Disney's streaming platform because the player isn't laid out the way you like, you don't have a right to pirate their movies
If you don't like the way Riot delivers games or disagree with their policies, you don't have a right to pirate their games
It's one thing to dislike someone's product and choose not to buy it, it's entirely another to dislike their product and use that as justification for taking it without paying.
I've heard loads of people say "XYZ is a shitty movie, I'm not paying to watch it, I'm going to pirate it" or "XYZ game looks like ***, I'm not going to buy it, I'm going to pirate it"
I'm sorry, if you don't like someone's product then don't buy it, it doesn't mean stealing it is justified. If you don't like someone's service, don't purchase their service, you don't suddenly get carte blanche because you (allegedly) disagree with their business decisions.
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Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2023-12-21 18:08:05
Whats the word / Any news on the fake DMCAs
Getting blueballed
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Bahamut.Negan
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2409
By Bahamut.Negan 2023-12-21 20:32:53
IDK what DMCA is, but I like to think it's DMC from RUN DMC and MCA from Beastie Boys love child.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2023-12-21 20:35:24
Asura.Natenn
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1979
By Asura.Natenn 2023-12-21 22:32:53
IDK what DMCA is, but I like to think it's DMC from RUN DMC and MCA from Beastie Boys love child. Don't
Make
Content
Anymore
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By Setsuko 2023-12-22 02:27:42
I always thought it was funny how people would give others ***for buying gil. It's like how in old BG, we would swear up and down that we weren't cheating at HNMs but we 100% were haha As soon as I joined the ls someone sent me a file and was like "this is the bot we use." Deny doing it while actually doing it. Adding a note that I never cheated on a private server though and reported my own members when I caught them cheating. For whatever reason, RMTing and botting just seems way worse on a PS than on retail, maybe due to the much smaller community.
Believe it or not, some of us didn't/don't cheat/rmt.
I am aware of that. I simply thought it was funny because it reminded me of the old days where people would accuse someone of cheating or buying gil while also doing the same themselves.
Asura.Rekcuf
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 219
By Asura.Rekcuf 2023-12-22 04:07:31
YouTube Video Placeholder
why are people angry its fun to troll and stuff :(
Asura.Bootus
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 65
By Asura.Bootus 2023-12-22 05:50:57
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »I understand where you're coming from Ilugmat and I agree with your points generally, but the counterpoint is always:
"SE doesn't provide what I want, a classic server, therefore I/we had to create it on our own"
Immediately followed by:
"I wouldn't pay for retail anyway, I'm only after the classic experience, I don't actually like retail"
I understand these points as well, and won't bother trying to argue which one is a better experience because that's a matter of personal preference/taste.
What I disagree with though, is when you try to compare this to other products:
If Apple didn't design their laptops the way you like, you don't have a right to steal their design and make your own.
If you don't like Disney's streaming platform because the player isn't laid out the way you like, you don't have a right to pirate their movies
If you don't like the way Riot delivers games or disagree with their policies, you don't have a right to pirate their games
It's one thing to dislike someone's product and choose not to buy it, it's entirely another to dislike their product and use that as justification for taking it without paying.
I've heard loads of people say "XYZ is a shitty movie, I'm not paying to watch it, I'm going to pirate it" or "XYZ game looks like ***, I'm not going to buy it, I'm going to pirate it"
I'm sorry, if you don't like someone's product then don't buy it, it doesn't mean stealing it is justified. If you don't like someone's service, don't purchase their service, you don't suddenly get carte blanche because you (allegedly) disagree with their business decisions.
I'd agree with you if the product was available for purchase. Private servers for XI are more like downloading out of print books/music. Getting them second-hand is the only possible way to obtain them. There's no retail 75-era server, and so if someone wants that they need to play a private server.
Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. There's no denying that 75-era is a wildly different experience than what we have on retail right now, and some people prefer it.
By K123 2023-12-22 06:43:53
Logged on to retail for free to play, bunch of RMT shouts and nothing to do. Levelling in the dunes with humans on horizon is more fun than multibox botting more ***I don't need on retail.
Fenrir.Ahlen
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 292
By Fenrir.Ahlen 2023-12-22 06:46:56
Anyone remember the private servers for vanilla World of Warcraft? Blizzard forced those off the internet (Cease and desisted), and some shut down willingly before that, when Blizzard announced they were making WoW classic servers?
It was only one server, called Nostalrius, and their thing always was "If Blizzard does an official Classic release we will shut down." They had been getting C&Ds for years, and ignoring them because they were hosted in Russia and Russian hosting companies don't care about international copyright claims.
The actual reason Nostalrius shut down was because the dev team was under the impression that after being approached by Blizzard to help work on Classic, that they had secured spots. A few months after they shut down, Blizzard announced at Blizzcon that they had no plans to actually do Classic. (Which went against what they told the Nostalrius team.)
The two head devs of Nostalrius retaliated by releasing the player database to another Classic project (called Elysium at the time) so that they could effectively relaunch Nostalrius. Because of this, Blizzard shut them out and then about a two years later announced official Classic.
I'm not sure where people get the impression that this had anything to do with the threat of litigation - it was never a real concern. All of this information is easily looked up by the way. I just happened to have been playing there when it happened. Nostalrius wasn't getting Cease and desisted for years. They got a notice and folded immediately. Also if you ever followed it / looked into it more you would know they had no idea blizzard was going to create wow classic when they decided this.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3373
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2023-12-22 09:26:24
Logged on to retail for free to play, bunch of RMT shouts and nothing to do
I guess if you already have every REMA at R15, all the Su5 weapons and JSE necks with capped augments, a crafting shield (or 8), every piece of gear you could possibly need from Sinister Reign, Gaes Fete, all your JSE upgraded to +3, all Odyssey gear max augmented, every useful piece of gear from Unity NMs at maxed augments, all the items from Vagary, all the items from Omen, every HTBF item, and you don't care to make any prime weapon, have absolutely no need for gil for anything, and are actively refusing to participate in Vanabout...
There's really nothing to do on retail, might as well log out. I mean honestly at that point, you've beaten the game, time to move on.
Bismarck.Nickeny
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2399
By Bismarck.Nickeny 2023-12-22 13:22:23
Bro... I logged into FFXI and man I don't feel like having to do things. Like I wanna make a Masamune but they expect me to... Play the game... alone.
Like I'm no elitist but where are the people to take advantage of have some good ole fashion fun. Trying to start a slave labor linkshell to make my Masamune for me us.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5403
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-12-22 14:09:52
“Theres nothing to do in retail”
>> logs into Horizon to spend 6 hours killing beetles in Garlaige to get from lv33 to 35.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 286
By Asura.Aquatiq 2023-12-22 14:41:18
“Theres nothing to do in retail”
>> logs into Horizon to spend 6 hours killing beetles in Garlaige to get from lv33 to 35.
You just don't understand the skill and commitment required to do such a mindless repetitive task with other people instead of trusts!!!!
By K123 2023-12-22 15:46:54
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »Logged on to retail for free to play, bunch of RMT shouts and nothing to do
I guess if you already have every REMA at R15, all the Su5 weapons and JSE necks with capped augments, a crafting shield (or 8), every piece of gear you could possibly need from Sinister Reign, Gaes Fete, all your JSE upgraded to +3, all Odyssey gear max augmented, every useful piece of gear from Unity NMs at maxed augments, all the items from Vagary, all the items from Omen, every HTBF item, and you don't care to make any prime weapon, have absolutely no need for gil for anything, and are actively refusing to participate in Vanabout...
There's really nothing to do on retail, might as well log out. I mean honestly at that point, you've beaten the game, time to move on. I mean the effort:reward ratio is dead as *** when you have a bunch of top geared dd and support jobs and have done all the content at least once. Even though Horizon is a bit sadistic I have played many games over with a less than 19 year difference. Playing Horizon is like playing a game you've played before but a long time ago. Not saying I plan to take it super serious, but it beats standing in town with yell spams or spending hours fixing your *** lua or gearswaps.
Carbuncle.Nynja
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5403
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-12-22 16:56:06
Instead you spend hours in town fixing your *** lua or gearswap, just to get invited to a party, spend 30 minutes running there, just for someone else to go "/p sorry gtg wife aggro" and logout, then the party sits idle for an hour while they seek a replacement and the arrival of said replacement.
Did the private server stans forget that majority of retail players were around for the so-called majestic 75 era???? We didnt just start playing FFXI with the arrival of SoA.
I live again!!!
I used to play FF11, so did my SO. But that was long ago~
We’ve been playing FF14 for several years now with another couple, and a handful of family members and mutual friends. Every one of them has a prior history with the final fantasy franchise as a whole, though from different generations. In our banter at one time or another everyone has expressed a curiosity for FF11 which they had heard was both a masterpiece in its own right, as well as a rather daunting and at times a crushing experience. There is also a perception of boring gameplay (somehow the classic ‘I hit you, you hit me, then I hit you again’ RPG gameplay loop just isn’t doing it for em. Spoiled). Sadly, I corroborated this for them and helped to solidify that opinion. I’m sure many similar conversations have been had from former players of FF11 to curious people of a younger gaming generation about FF11 in its early iterations. I suspect this mentality and perspective is a factor in people seeking out private servers. It certainly was in the case of my group.
After Yoshi P announced the upcoming raid with ties to FF11, each of the people in our group became instantly interested in playing the game. Our messiah Yoshi Pesus had spoken. Everyone asked me, with clear apprehension "how should we go about it?? What do we have to do to experience the story and clear the 'main content'"? Initially I facepalmed and rolled my eyes, but I also figured I too would like to see the close of the FF11 story I never completed. As the pied piper considering getting ready to lead his flock into the fucking dunes, I started to dread the learning curve everyone was going to hit more or less immediately upon login.
To counter that, I figured a private server would likely be the way to go. Presumably, we could just “godmode” or something and stomp our way through all the bullshit, speed/position hack and see the story as painlessly as possible. Well not quite. It turns out I knew nothing about private servers, and it turns out “godmode” is the trust system and other QOL and travel adjustments they made to retail over the years. But let me back up for a second. In researching options for private servers I found out a lot of concerning information about private servers, and the general lack of options (WIP pet projects). All of it covered in the other threads, ranging from leadership concerns, to absolutely stupid changes to the game itself (e.g. THF changes), and a butchered soundtrack. The final nail in the coffin really being that if you want to see the full story it’s going to have to be on retail. But even without story as a consideration, after researching enough about Horizon and other private servers it’s become a no brainer for the group. Fuck it, just play retail. Turns out that was a great decision.
The learning curve for everyone is still steep, but there are guides. Everyone has been enjoying it so far, they love the story, they enjoy the simplified “zen” of exp grinding (which I bitter-sweetly remind them is “not as painful as it used to be”). They’re around lvl 70 now, starting on CoP, finished Nation rank ups, and the Zilart missions. They suck, every new moment is a challenge for them. It’s been a blast.
Now, none of this would have happened within my group without Yoshi P giving FF11 a major publicity bump by attaching it to FF14. I suspect that’s a significant factor going on for Horizons success. Just lucky with great timing. FF11 got the Yoshi P bump, but FF11 has a sort of infamy to it that gamers are aware of, and subsequently might be more likely to consider a private server first. Especially if they have had any influence on their perspective either from past play of 11 like myself, or opinions and anecdotes of past players. Horizon is definitely riding on that wave.
It’s just a perfect storm of opportunity and timing for Horizons leadership. I don’t think they’re that smart (look at their administrative in-house drama), they might be finding ways to capitalize on it now sure, but I think it’s mostly just luck and timing.
Now having said all that… I definitely now think the hostility to Horizon is warranted. My group alone resulted in 6 people buying the game and starting a sub, and the renewal of my and my SO’s sub. While 8 people is not that many people, I think its fair to say that if I didn’t look closely into private servers vs retail, I and my crew would likely have found ourselves on Horizon, and there would be that much less money going to FF11. I wonder how many other people responding to the Yoshi P bump are being funneled to horizon instead of retail due to aforementioned reasons, and what a waste that is since as far as I can tell, Yoshi P doing this crossover raid is an attempt at the initial steps for extending a lifeline to FF11.
If players do their homework and still decide to play on a… quasi-elementary-school-birdhouse-project-failure of a private server like Horizon, aight cool homie, whatever makes you happy, the world could use more happy people. Go play it champ. Throw some Ridill’s on some shit. Go get that E-body. And a pair of gaiters.
Horizon keeps getting attributed as having a sense of community, but if people come over to FF11 with their own community already from FF14, as is the case in my group. Well, that becomes a moot point. So does FF11's existing stale community. What you'll have is an opportunity for people to just start importing their own communities into your greater one. Your feelings on FF14 tourists bringing their culture to this antique game may vary, but that's another topic.
Yoshi P, and Horizon have created a renaissance opportunity for FF11 I think. The conflict you all are having is actually probably good for the game. And that will be my last point for now that I wish to make, and also a thank you of sorts to the people here who care enough about the game to make noise.
I don’t wanna name names or anything, Draylo. Because I’m definitely not here to point fingers, Homsar. But seeing everyone aggressively hash it out here was indeed a significant factor in my groups decision of where to play. It gave me things to consider and trails of information to investigate elsewhere so I could make the right decision for my groups needs/interests.
So like… thanks you guys. Please don’t stop fighting the good/stupid fight. I need you. We need you. And you didn’t even know it. Promote whatever you want, and promote with all your sincerity. Sane or not.
Never stop duking it out.
Yall are like the ROV conclusion (spoilers) The winds of conflict must ever blow over vanadiel lest it be consumed by the cloud of darkness.
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