Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Tell those people to make me a deliverybox emptier.

Take the 8, close, open, take the 8.

DNC Prime > Prime or not to Prime for DNC > Extrapolation on a job that people don't play often because it's not man mode 9000 even though it's a murder beast in frilly clothes > When Prime is used for DNC > If you're getting diminished results from using Prime WS, what you can do since they aren't savage blade and that might be all people know. All connecting thoughts.

Lack of empathy. Attempting to put people down. Excuses it as sarcasm which is poorly received in written format, even though you frequently talk about this subject.

I really do think you need to start a topic to help you understand other people's motivation on 3rd party tools or why they play the game since you can't get off this subject. Because currently it looks like you derive some measure of pride and self esteem by holding onto personal standards that you believe are objective and derail discussions of people who mention things that are below your standard. It makes you look like an *** and I'm actually pretty sure you're not an *** at all.

There is nothing wrong with a philophy/ethics thread on the forum. We waste tons of time attempting to waste time here, regularly. Just don't do it in the middle of every major thread. If people want to have very long discussions and text wall each other to entertain themselves while they are waiting on super charges, so be it.

He is the FFXI version of a vegan Karen in a Brazilian barbecue. Every single major thread is polluted by these talks. EVERYONE on here already knows where he stands, what his opinions are but he insist we should hear it every day.

Ok grampa, we get it, you fought the nazis.

He's probably feed up with all the failures/excueses that happened and blamed on the lua not working than the actual players.

Spoilers for people who don't want to deal with my walls of text.

What's the point of eating a burger if you didn't raise a herd of cows and butcher one to make the meat patty, milk another to make the cheese, grow lettuce and tomatoes and wheat grain and bake your own bun? You're half arsing life if you don't do all this.

What's the point of existing if you didn't even create existence?

Seeing as how it's you, I genuinely have no idea if you're so thick you don't get the point, or if you're just making a dumb joke.

Better analogy:
What's the point in participating in track & field events if you're going to drive a mercedes for all of your races, because you hate getting sweaty while running?

I think there's a degree of condescension involved, sure. But, the rules of the site specifically state:
It's lame for anyone trying to get into the game or enjoy it legitimately to step into a thread (or an Asura PUG apparently) and see that the de-facto way to handle everything is to download another bot, speed hack, etc. Whether or not it's ethical, I don't think it belongs here and the casual acceptance of this has been driven by the forum diehards pushing the views bit by bit and shifting from debates over the ethics of spellcast to largely accepting blatant speedhacking.

A significant portion of the NA+Asura playerbase has decided they want a mobile game equivalent that gives you rewards for clicking a few buttons, with no thought planning or coordination required.
This is readily apparent when looking at the attitude toward V20/V25, Sortie, ASE assaults, any momentary inconvenience. But, that's not how the game is designed. That's not how most Japanese players or non-posters think and play. So, there's push back against it.

As far as the ethics, I don't think most of the people posting here are incapable of selecting a WS based on mode. I think most of them could clear their assaults. Most could clear Odyssey legitimately, if they were ok with playing the game as it was intended for a while. But, I don't think they want to. They legitimately don't enjoy the gameplay, they only enjoy the simulation of accomplishment. You're not going to change it at this point, and maybe it's wrong to try. If people would rather pay their sub to do an auto battler and pretend they accomplished something, that's still funding the game. But, the way the cheaters trivialize it and talk badly to anyone who tries to give an objective view on the subject is just sad.

Nah... It's because adults are expected to have learned to mind their own business.

I have not seen Maletaru make a single post about cheats that wasn't preceded by someone talking about the cheats they're using or advocating cheats to random players.

If you just cheated in your own group and didn't try to push it as a normal and acceptable way to clear content, nobody would know or care you were doing it. So, in other words, maybe you should just keep your private business.. private.

Exactly. You can 100% see people talking about addons you dislike and just mind your own business. Nobody needs to hear another rant from vanillas, on unrelated threads.

People have like 6 accounts to play FFXI at the "Highest Level" using scripts and flee hacks

Here I am with one account trying to figure out if I am going the right way in sortie.



V25 bumba tonight wish me luck

GL Nick!

I'm not a vanilla, I have better cheats than anyone here. I just don't go into a thread discussing how to clear content and say "It's easier if you use [cheat]." It makes the community and game worse to do so; nobody should feel like they need to cheat just to play. It's bad enough that people are shamed for not using gearswap.

I don't even enjoy that :) I enjoy talking ***with the bros while we do the same boring content everyday like the masochists we are.

Have we not established a bajillion times that anything above vanilla client is cheating, and any moral ambiguity assigned to different cheats based on how much they personally offend you, ultimately doesn't matter? There's no sliding scale for cheats as far as SE is concerned.

If you see cheating and it bothers you, report it in-game. Bitching about it on the forums isn't going to solve your problems if you're the die-hard purist type. On the flip side, "Windower and its addons/plugins are okay to talk about, but anything that rises to the level of "bot" is forbidden." I think that covers both sides, yeah?

React rises to the level of bot. It's performing an action based on something that occured. So, that would make it against the rules.

If nobody pushes back on [X] cheat, then [X] cheat eventually becomes accepted as standard and referenced in every discussion the same way gearswap has. That's how culture shifts.

I'm not trying to get anyone banned for what they're using, or suggesting they stop using it. So, I have no reason to report anyone. I'd just rather not see the de-facto way of discussing content assume everyone is speedhacking, using react, and compensating for a mule that's running cureplease, selindrile's or some other third rate bot.

For that matter, half of the discussions on Odyssey or Sortie are already reporting their own output and experiences while running around at 200% and leaving that entirely out of their description. Doesn't make the groups trying to do the same thing legitimately feel very good, I assume.

Ah, I see. You guys pollute the threads with these rants for a noble cause then. Makes sense.

Honestly dude, if you didn't bring up cheats nobody would complain you brought up cheats. How does it help the thread to have people say you can use React to React to things? People who already use React know that. It's just an attempt to normalize cheating through public consensus. It's not adding anything more to the thread than the complaints about it are.

Maybe I'm just not paying enough attention. I check on a couple threads throughout the day so maybe it's just my experience, but I don't remember seeing lots of people posting about blatant use of above-windower tools.

But to your point, in an effort to break the tide of a culture shift, where do we draw the line? Do we all need to collectively agree on what's acceptable and what isn't as a community if we're going to self-police and enforce some kind of standard?

It was fun to troll the ASE thread and see all the tears about how the game will be unplayable because of the assault requirement for mythics

There isn't ever going to be a standard that's universally agreed on. People who cheat and want to normalize it are always going to defend whatever they use, because the more people on board the less likely they'll get punished or seen as cheaters for using it.

Unless administration gets involved and lays out some line, there's no clear answer. But, that doesn't mean you should be allowed to mention whatever cheat you want without criticism. The rules obviously no longer apply to gearswap, but why would they be suspended for things like selindrile luas or react? They're quite clearly bots by any definition. Speedhacks aren't bots by most definitions, but I would assume those shouldn't be mentioned either.. again, admin clarification.

Frankly, I don't see why cheaters need to mention that they're cheating here to begin with, or what benefit it has. When moderation was active, none of this would've been allowed. It makes more sense for content to be discussed on the basis of the content design, so that everyone reading it gets a fair impression. If you want to take that information and go cheat on your own run, cool, but why does anyone need to come in here and suggest that others do it?

lol... yeah, that must be the reason why these people are so good.


I didn't bring any. I'm not even part of the addon discussion. I do think, like a whole of other people on here, that vegan vanillas should mind their business and stop throwing a tantrum every time an addon is mentioned.

I suggest everyone go over to the official forum and ask SE where they can find an exemplar point bot.
Tell 'em actually grinding exemplar points is cutting into their free time they'd otherwise spend playing FF7: Ever Crisis or KingdomHearts Missing-Link.

what point do bots/cheats/hacks have to the discussion of prime WSs aside from an auto weaponskill bot for getting a large sample size?

Woke culture

Most are trying to adapt the strategy pioneered by the first successful groups to their own needs, including adding whatever tools they think they need. None of the original posts by those first groups mentioned anything about cheats, it was all fight details and strategy. But since SE doesn't enforce anything and the tools are publicly available, people have gotten bold enough to use whatever and talk about it wherever with no repercussions. Moderation might help, but who in their right mind wants that job in 2024 FFXI?

Maletaru, my guy, I feel you but at this point it's not helpful to bring up the "that's cheating/botting" argument.

People gonna do what they gonna do and there's no point beating that particular dead horse.

I often have friends ask me why I do content X "manually" when it would be so much easier with <cheat-I-don't-already-use>. The response is always "because I want to". I think the same goes both ways. If people want to use <cheat> that's on them.

That said, what really bothers me is, similar to what Thorny said, normalising the use of <cheat> to the point where it is expected and if you don't use <cheat> you can't do certain content.

As an example, Sam solo DD on Kei. Everyone and their mother knows that is only possible with <cheatY>. But every time someone pops up to say "Sam solo DD on that is easy, just watch" and drag the LS over to watch them do it, they "neglect" to mention it is not possible without said cheat. Then someone will see them do it, try it without said cheat and fail miserably, wondering why or thinking it's their skill issue.

I won't go into the other discussion about arbitrary lines in the sand while simultaneously using 200 other cheats, also a dead horse.

You sure grandpa wasn't actually the Nazi in all those stories? This is a joke as you didn't capitalize the M indicating your reverence.


You don't think that wasting people's time and potential interactions with beating the same dead worse isn't a form of intimidation tactics? They came here to discuss something and get an interaction with someone who was interested and you actively deny that and take the air out of discussions. That's antagonistic and gate keeping.

A 50 year old + dude, playing on SHIVA, getting triggered by another 50 year old dude suggesting react to a probably 60 year old dude on Asura. All in the name of keeping the community clean.