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Difficulty in FFXI - a retrospective
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 19:38:20
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Thank you for this I dont dox your site btw so just a lucky guess.
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 985
By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 20:06:55
limbus was just one of the examples i could remember, i wanna say there was a few key good pieces in there but yeah, wasn't incredible, i did forget about neo-nyzul which was what id call a true revamp compared to limbus/einherjar though i guess its easier to replace 1 zone with another vs multiple wings/zones.
also seconded on a true ilvl limbus, but fairly certain its long dead, we got our omega/ultima htb and later master trial, and that's probably enough, cause all limbus was is omega/ultima right? Not gonna lie I been lowkey hoping for limbus to make a return that and sea but I just know it won't happen. Limbus would be cool as ***if done right. Imagine sea also going in the palace and killing jailers! Take me back.
By Draylo 2023-01-04 20:10:53
They already did that.. Escha.. The exact same NMs and mobs lol. They also already did Limbus.. It was kinda lame but it was there, and really they already replicated that content various times with different skin. Yall should want new expansions and new areas.. I'm kinda done with going back, although an ilevel version of stuff would be nice for Nyzul that also gave tokens or Einherjar to help with mythics
By Nariont 2023-01-04 20:11:39
unfortunately sea is also a never ever since they just moved all the jailers to escha-ruann, it's really a shame since id often just idle in that zone due to the bgm/general look of the place, now its just another empty zone.
Yall should want new expansions and new areas..
Sure, there's plenty of new stuff I want, I also know it won't happen with the games current state, also unfortunately aware they won't revisit/update older content cause, well, they already did at 99, and some again at 119 via unity and such. But its easier and more importantly cheaper to retool older content to move up to ilvl than it is to just make all new stuff.
By Draylo 2023-01-04 20:13:55
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
There are private servers that have even Dynamis D, but most are buggy mess. So they do go beyond the 75 era but poorly. I really disagree with you overall, I think private servers are a complete detriment to retail. Just look at the video I linked on the first page, READ those comments! Just read the lunacy dripping off them. You have people trying to actively recruit others to a *free* private server. People actively bashing retail, thinking we are still in Abyssea at the end when we had super powered atma. These people are ALL over the place, Reddit, Youtube you name it. I have debated with them endlessly and theres a lot of them. Hell, even previous LS members of mine are jaded by current retail and think 75 era was best. I just dont see private servers as a benefit whatsoever for retail.
Ultimately you're in an uphill losing fight against nostalgia because most of the people pining for a lvl75 experience are looking for that first time XI all of us fell in love with that simply cannot happen again. The coeurls out of the bag, most of us are nearly 20 years older, windower exists, social media exists where people can do more than consult allakhazam or killing ifrit or blue gartr.
Anyone who wants to talk about golden age XI better be ready to talk about how every pet job was ***, how WOTG cratered the game because Tanaka was busy wiring the greatest bomb in Final Fantasy history (RIP XIV 1.0), how content like Moblin Maze Mongers, Pankration and Chocobo Racing had little incentive to be completed, how SE straight up lied about AV, RMT were running rampant monopolizing lotto pop NMs or talk about why Newton Movalpolos was designed by a psychopath etc etc.
I look fondly back on classic XI (ROZ-WOTG) but without Abyssea this game would be shut down and the servers in a Japanese landfill.
Yep I agree, its a shame they cant see reason.
Sadly those 75 era purists hate retail so much they want it to fail just so they can say "ha! I told you so"
I wouldn't call myself a 75 purist, but if the opportunity presented to play on an officially sanctioned 75 era server; I'd probably go waste several hours there. But, then I'm also balanced enough that I recognize the advances of retail and I wouldn't want any 75 era experience to be at the expense of retail or its continued advancement.
Some aspects of 75 era were fun, but a lot of what made that era was the people -- the community (at the time), the asinine contest over HNMs, and alliance content in abundance (which was only really alliance content because most people were mediocre at best and gear choices were limited), and that combination will never be recreated. It's definitely not for everyone.
Yep, I've been saying that a long time. It was the community, not the archaic content we did. Its something that was like magic in a bottle, its impossible to recreate 100%.
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Phoenix.Iocus
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Posts: 1869
By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-01-04 20:14:52
I really hope Valhalla is a cool zone if we get there.
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Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 20:17:52
They already did that.. Escha.. The exact same NMs and mobs lol. They also already did Limbus.. It was kinda lame but it was there, and really they already replicated that content various times with different skin. Yall should want new expansions and new areas.. I'm kinda done with going back, although an ilevel version of stuff would be nice for Nyzul that also gave tokens or Einherjar to help with mythics I remember the second limbus and I did it but I still want it back stop trying to take my fun! Forreal though I know it won't happen nor should it tbh its been done already. Down with nyzul I would love new zones and content but im also being real SE aint planning no big *** new zone and with new ***at this point of the games life. Forget escha its not the same :( I want the looks of sea and the fear of a UFO touching me from above.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 20:20:02
unfortunately sea is also a never ever since they just moved all the jailers to escha-ruann, it's really a shame since id often just idle in that zone due to the bgm/general look of the place, now its just another empty zone.
Yall should want new expansions and new areas..
Sure, there's plenty of new stuff I want, I also know it won't happen with the games current state, also unfortunately aware they won't revisit/update older content cause, well, they already did at 99, and some again at 119 via unity and such. But its easier and more importantly cheaper to retool older content to move up to ilvl than it is to just make all new stuff. Thats where I am on it. I want this stuff but really just know it wont happen and better chance to just retool like you said. I miss all the old music sadly I haven't listen to game sound in like 10 years.
By Nariont 2023-01-04 20:22:32
I'll occasionally throw the ost up when im driving or just doing some misc thing, or its just eternally stuck in my head like lufaise meadows or sea/AU from idling there so many times
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By Draylo 2023-01-04 20:23:05
lol Escha had that fear of UFO, and if you killed it you could pop the NM and he might kill you or charm you. They literally go out of their way to bring back nostalgia in almost all their content and each era... This is part of the whole problem, people are so engrossed in nostlgia they just dont see the efforts in front of their eyes. While it would be easier to ilevel and redo all the old stuff... just why. They should do literally anything new. I lived thru all that too, and I remember it very fondly. I just want a new expansion, I had so much fun with Adoulin as it progressed and seeing new things everywhere. I wouldn't write off an expansion fully, but its becoming too late soon because they dont treat XI as profitable even tho it is. That anniversary was the perfect time to announce something like that, they completely failed.
By Nariont 2023-01-04 20:27:26
Escha UFOs had the benefit of trusts and they were DC-EM at best. Sea UFOs were a legit threat if you couldnt CC them, but that was most things back at 75 that werent DC or under. It was kinda crap but also made exploring potentially threatening
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By Draylo 2023-01-04 20:29:21
Yeah but they also had potential to pop the NM and I saw tons of people wipe to that thing or they were charmed and others killed them. If youre debating we need open world regular mobs that are harder, thats one thing. It seems like youre saying there was nothing similar to sea and thats not true.
They really just cant win either way, they add nostalgia crap and people complain. They make things too hard, people complain. They change something for the better, people complain.
Here someone complaining because he says REMA is required for all content (not true) and that it should be easier to make them. Dont most of them complain the game is too easy? No need to buy gil when it falls from the trees, you get Gil from literally everything.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-04 20:32:59
lol Escha had that fear of UFO, and if you killed it you could pop the NM and he might kill you or charm you. They literally go out of their way to bring back nostalgia in almost all their content and each era... This is part of the whole problem, people are so engrossed in nostlgia they just dont see the efforts in front of their eyes. While it would be easier to ilevel and redo all the old stuff... just why. They should do literally anything new. I lived thru all that too, and I remember it very fondly. I just want a new expansion, I had so much fun with Adoulin as it progressed and seeing new things everywhere. I wouldn't write off an expansion fully, but its becoming too late soon because they dont treat XI as profitable even tho it is. That anniversary was the perfect time to announce something like that, they completely failed. No I think you miss the point people see that and just miss it is all the fear of escha ufo vs back in the day aint even close to the same you. The UFO in 75 cap days had a like 90% chance or more of killing you now its maybe 3# if you bad bad. I think thats what most miss is the fear idk man. I want new content like you and others but let me still have the old dreams! Don't be a dream killer!
Also I agree if they would've did something during the 20th it wouldve been perfect. I 100% get what you saying and agree just miss some of that stuff sometimes.
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By Asura.Iamaman 2023-01-04 20:35:50
What I think most of them want is the 1-75 grind that they never finished. They call the game too easy, then when you point out harder content, they say it's too difficult to get into. I don't necessarily disagree with the latter, but it's impossible to satisfy some of them.
As for Escha and UFOs, when I came back around 2 years ago I "oops I accidentally" Warder of Love right as DI was finishing, it rampaged through those left there and killed several of them. Oopsie!
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By Nariont 2023-01-04 20:49:49
Whether they realize it or not it's ultimately the community people have nostalgia for, provided its not just simple "old good, new bad" anyway it's in large part what makes the content memorable, plus doable at all since nothing back then was getting done without at least 2-3 people. As far as ye old 1-75 times I just like the aesthetic of older areas, a lot of areas post CoP are C+P hallways, probably most blatant early example is nyzul, plus better (imo) music
By Draylo 2023-01-04 20:56:07
That is why part of me feels that that dumb nostalgic 75 era crowd held back the game a lot and still do. They quit, lower population, SE deems us not worthy an expansion. I really hate that my favorite game to play is constantly held back by people with nostalgia goggles who want to play the same crap over and over. I can't believe people would prefer that over an expansion and then just accept it wont happen because dummies all quit. They literally want to be in sky and sea, when we were in those damn zones for over a decade!! Goodness, and they want them recreated more than once, just makes no logical sense to me. Even before Abyssea, I remember farming diorite for like 6 hours once and getting no drop and wondering why the hell are we still doing this years later.
By Dazusu 2023-01-05 05:04:21
Here someone complaining because he says REMA is required for all content (not true) and that it should be easier to make them.
To be fair to him, and to argue against your earlier point - people in our community can be toxic, and you don't get invited into groups if you don't have REMA. There might be one or two exceptions to that rule, but he's not wrong.
Then the common argument is: "make your own group"... and that presents a new set of challenges.
Few people are welcoming to new players at end-game.
This isn't me arguing for the death of the game, it's me being a realist.
Cerberus.Balloon
Server: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2023-01-05 05:06:03
It was a double edged sword I think, because yeah my millionth dynamis was as tedious and slow as the first. No variation, largely mapped out patterns, low drop rates and competition. It was no fun.
But it was nice that even though I joined in the ToAU era I was able to experience a lot of the endgame content from eras prior. That some of that gear was still relevant and I could see people in and around cities wearing it.
Unlocking Sky and Sea because it was relevant for endgame was also another good incentive to engage with those stories. Some of the cool fights were years old by the time I got there, Divine Might for instance.
But I loved Abyssea, because I think it really made the game feel markedly different. And they still were able to turn old events into something new, which was also nice.
As for the REMA thing, I never got one to 99, because I didn't GitGud or whatever, but I think anything beyond maybe Aeonics.. engaging with 75 era content ad-infinitum (EG Mythics) and huge gil sinks do not constitute difficulty.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-05 05:51:14
Here someone complaining because he says REMA is required for all content (not true) and that it should be easier to make them.
To be fair to him, and to argue against your earlier point - people in our community can be toxic, and you don't get invited into groups if you don't have REMA. There might be one or two exceptions to that rule, but he's not wrong.
Then the common argument is: "make your own group"... and that presents a new set of challenges.
Few people are welcoming to new players at end-game.
This isn't me arguing for the death of the game, it's me being a realist. Yea the game had/has a toxic thing when it comes to this for sure like hell we still have to list bards and geos as idris or honor March to get people to look at you. I remember my 6 months of no group on geo because no idris. The game has gotten a bit better about that I feel now that nageling is in everyone's hands and geo taking indirect nerfs for some content.
Bahamut.Galakar
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 202
By Bahamut.Galakar 2023-01-05 06:23:00
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Here someone complaining because he says REMA is required for all content (not true) and that it should be easier to make them.
To be fair to him, and to argue against your earlier point - people in our community can be toxic, and you don't get invited into groups if you don't have REMA. There might be one or two exceptions to that rule, but he's not wrong.
Then the common argument is: "make your own group"... and that presents a new set of challenges.
Few people are welcoming to new players at end-game.
This isn't me arguing for the death of the game, it's me being a realist. Yea the game had/has a toxic thing when it comes to this for sure like hell we still have to list bards and geos as idris or honor March to get people to look at you. I remember my 6 months of no group on geo because no idris. The game has gotten a bit better about that I feel now that nageling is in everyone's hands and geo taking indirect nerfs for some content.
I wouldn't say that this is that bad. Yes, there are toxic players. Yes, there are elitist players who will ask for X REMAs just to join them in fighting Escha Zi'Tah GF. But it is not a rule.
The main difference is, that the groups that do not require players to have REMAs or some crazy gear, often is also not able to guarantee the win. The more casual the group, the higher chances for a wipe. There are people who don't want to try the same fight 20 or 30 fights before winning but want to do it on the first try (and on the highest difficulty, if the battlefield is scalable).
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Server: Bahamut
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-05 06:50:55
Bahamut.Justthetip said: »Here someone complaining because he says REMA is required for all content (not true) and that it should be easier to make them.
To be fair to him, and to argue against your earlier point - people in our community can be toxic, and you don't get invited into groups if you don't have REMA. There might be one or two exceptions to that rule, but he's not wrong.
Then the common argument is: "make your own group"... and that presents a new set of challenges.
Few people are welcoming to new players at end-game.
This isn't me arguing for the death of the game, it's me being a realist. Yea the game had/has a toxic thing when it comes to this for sure like hell we still have to list bards and geos as idris or honor March to get people to look at you. I remember my 6 months of no group on geo because no idris. The game has gotten a bit better about that I feel now that nageling is in everyone's hands and geo taking indirect nerfs for some content.
I wouldn't say that this is that bad. Yes, there are toxic players. Yes, there are elitist players who will ask for X REMAs just to join them in fighting Escha Zi'Tah GF. But it is not a rule.
The main difference is, that the groups that do not require players to have REMAs or some crazy gear, often is also not able to guarantee the win. The more casual the group, the higher chances for a wipe. There are people who don't want to try the same fight 20 or 30 fights before winning but want to do it on the first try (and on the highest difficulty, if the battlefield is scalable). Ya I was saying it was that bad before this was years its not like that much anymore outside maybe asura? It's not a matter of when more so that it exists in my eyes. Everything else I agree with. Tons of games are way worse about this than xi ever has been or will be. Wow destiny 2 xiv list goes on where one try wipe people leave ***kinda sad but I get it limited play time and don't wanna wipe.
Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2023-01-05 07:13:13
The general sentiment around needing a REMA is if you haven't taken the time to do that, what else haven't you done for your jobs?
It's unfair but most people don't like letting strangers leech.
By Mattelot 2023-01-05 07:25:20
The general sentiment around needing a REMA is if you haven't taken the time to do that, what else haven't you done for your jobs?
It's unfair but most people don't like letting strangers leech.
A person can check another person's gear to see if they meet their personal, made-up criteria for content. Not really much else you can wonder about what they have or have not done.
And unless the person is literally standing there doing absolutely nothing at all, they're not really leeching. People love to call others leeches because they're not outputting the same numbers they are or people love claiming they carried someone when most of the time, they didn't. They just like to say so to try condescending others and project the illusion that they're elite or "better" than someone else. You can easily see what you're getting into before you enter something. If you join a PUG, you get whatever the dice roll.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-05 07:26:37
The general sentiment around needing a REMA is if you haven't taken the time to do that, what else haven't you done for your jobs?
It's unfair but most people don't like letting strangers leech. Well it depends because all remas aint good. So what if you made a mandau for your rdm can you enfeeble the boss? So many people have rema in this game and yet so many don't know how to use them or have useless ones trying to force them into being good. I get your point don't get me wrong but hundreds of million don't just drop into everyone's pockets. Also idris and epeo no matter how much money you got take 6 months.
Edit: Also im not posting as to have every answer btw just wanted to put that out there
Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2023-01-05 08:17:39
people in our community can be toxic, I was gonna say "lol thats only Asura", then I remembered that yesterday someone admitted to holding onto 12+ year old receipts of mine and then someone dropping my real name on these forums.
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-05 09:30:23
people in our community can be toxic, I was gonna say "lol thats only Asura", then I remembered that yesterday someone admitted to holding onto 12+ year old receipts of mine and then someone dropping my real name on these forums. I mean its because you seem to be holding on to that 12 year old receipt lol let it go and move on or do you wanna call another woman a *** again?
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Bahamut.Ninakira
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 4
By Bahamut.Ninakira 2023-01-05 09:37:22
people in our community can be toxic, I was gonna say "lol thats only Asura", then I remembered that yesterday someone admitted to holding onto 12+ year old receipts of mine and then someone dropping my real name on these forums.
Weren't you the one telling her to... move on? I see you're still stuck on it and it probably kept you up at night. Funny how a video game works, also, just so you know, a quick look un google: "Nynja ffxi" takes people to your Facebook profile. Maybe look into that.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2023-01-05 09:41:23
There's a whole spreadsheet with gilgamesh irl names matching players
And links to sources, where you out yourselves
For what it's worth
(No I'm not going to link it, cause that's a no-no, but I reply to messages)
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Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 985
By Bahamut.Justthetip 2023-01-05 09:45:34
There's a whole spreadsheet with gilgamesh irl names matching players
For what it's worth Which that's crazy to me hell didn't even it was his name I mean it is a common name but whatever let's move on.
I'm with draylo on wanting new content btw my only problem is I want them to put thought into it and make it fun and exciting which I know can't happen honestly with a 21 year old game at this point. They got better games to worry about. I really wish we had the excitement of exploring a new zone or fighting new mobs not reskins.
By Mattelot 2023-01-05 09:57:08
There's a whole spreadsheet with gilgamesh irl names matching players
And links to sources, where you out yourselves
For what it's worth
(No I'm not going to link it, cause that's a no-no, but I reply to messages)
Why would someone need this?
I know the real names of a few people who play only because they've posted screen snips of their Facebook posts on Discord but to compile a spreadsheet for it? What's the purpose?
It's fine seeing pics of what players look like. Anyone remember that ffxi players website years ago where people posted their pics? It was pretty neat back then outside of 1 guy who was not but only looked islam and was getting harassed over it. I thought that was weird and crude.
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Bit early maybe, but I'd like to read more opinions on other old time FFXI players concerning content difficulty in FFXI.
First of all a premise, what is "difficulty"?
I don't think there is an unambiguous way to define it, it's subject to context, personal opinions and scenarios.
Ultimately the most efficient way to measure it would be by amount of players completing a specific content in a window of time post release. A smaller number of players completing a content X weeks after release, would hint at that content being more "difficult" than others. With the uningnorable key aspect that it's hard to measure it since there is no official, open and transparent list (like in WoW for instance) and we only get approximate values from boards like FFXIAH, where only a small part of the overall player base participate in discussions, hence this can lead to biased perceptions.
Also right now we have a much smaller player base compared to several years ago, this skews the results because there are less overall attempts at a specific content, at the same time on average the player-base still playing these days is likely more proficient at the game than the average level we had several years ago.
The amount of different tools in the players' hands and how widespread they are compared to several years ago, also affects the result.
From the developers' point of view
"Balancing" the difficulty of content for Devs is much higher when you have too many variables at play.
This is exactly the reason why over the years most MMOs, following WoW's model, tried to standardize these variables.
With less and less of them at play, it's easier for Devs to "control" the environment and hence create a more predictable one where the difficulty isn't too hard or too easy according to those variables.
WoW started this progressively with several steps bit by bit. The most important one has been the "homogeneization" approach started in patch 3.0 (WotLK), followed by 4.0 (Cataclysm).
In FFXI the definition of "roles" according to the trinity system is more bland. This is made furtherly complex by the fact you can customize role/purpose by combining different subjobs, by variable number of players participating in the content (3-18) and by the fact that there's a plethora of different support buffs, most of which can be combined together because they don't share the same slot.
This makes it incredibly hard for devs to "balance" content because players have too much freedom and what can be borderline impossible with some setups, becomes a joke with some combinations (synergy) of specific jobs/buffs.
Lately SE tried its own way to "standardize" things without completely changing the game approach like WoW did.
They did this by creating limitations (6 people content, no subjob, WS wall), immunities (targets immune to several abilities/spells/effects) and "fuck you" mechanics (instant death, unresistable full dispel, AoE weakened status, targets ignoring enmity rules, systems that require a specific proc with that proc getting progressively harder to activate each following time) and much higher HP pools of targets (making zergs with buff-stacking and short duration invincibility things like Perfect Defense, uneffective, especially in environment where content is fixed for 6 people and not variable).
All of these features together greatly limitate the excessive freedom in the hands of players, making content somewhat more "equally difficult" instead than being excessively difficult with some setups, but easy with some others.
A Retrospective of end-game content difficulty
Here's my personal take on some end-game content I can think of
Abyssea Difficulty increased with each release, but ultimately it wasn't too high thanks to the extreme power granted by zone buffs, atmas, proc system and last but not least Primeval Brew. Once you unlocked all the "good" stuff, it wasn't really a big deal. Also you had the freedom granted by being allowed to bring up to 18 people. Same old FFXI situation with some stuff being very hard with most setups, but extremely easy with multiple specific setups. Also things progressively became easier and easier as you unlocked stuff (KIs, Atmas, Buffs, last but not least increased level cap)
Voidwatch Situation similar to Abyssea but with less "power creep" because it was already level 99 content and Atmacites/Buffs were less powerful than in Abyssea. The hardest fights in Voidwatch were tough and hardly farmable by anyone, but still doable once you unlocked the right stuff and used one of the multiple available "easy" setups.
Legion No Atmacites, no zone buffs, the addition of (back then) new zone enmity rules, several fuck-up moves but you had the "freedom" of bringing up to 18 people. Content was very, very difficult but if amount of support jobs with necessary gear and amount of addons (react etc) were as widespread as they are today, content would've been perceived as easier. Still, much harder than the others listed so far.
Delve Difficult content requiring the activation of specific gimmicks (granted by specific setups) on most of the NMs involved. Doing all 6 bosses in the same run was challenging at start, especially because of the lack of gear options due to the transition to ilevel paradygm. You still had the freedom granted by up to 18 people and had mostly to rely on stunning the dangerous moves. Difficult, interesting and "fair" content. Arguably full-runs granted too many points compared to the non-complete runs and with the amount of gear options we have nowadays, it would've been trivial.
Incursion Hard because of the uncommon (back then) zone enmity rules, the amount of AoE moves and frequent dispels, in addition to very dangerous moves from some NMs. Difficulty was potentially very high at the maximum level, but you didn't really have all that need to farm the content at the max difficulty level, it was unefficient and unnecessary (as a matter of fact, only a couple of groups managed to, back then)
Vagary Content was unfriendly for melee, which is one of the reason why mage setups were so favoured. Several fuck-up moves but there were multiple ways of dealing with them, in addition to the freedom granted by the up to 18 people. Easily farmable once the pop conditions were found out.
Aeonic (Zi'tah, Ru'aun, Reisen highest tier battles) The hardest fights were quite challenging, notably WoC, Kiryu and the 7 Reisen bosses. That's before the SMN burns became widespread. Ultimately power creep (from Job Points first, then gear) made the content progressively easier but at start it was quite tough. Despite being able to bring up to 18 people the HP scaling of bosses arguably made killing with 6-8 people easier than bringing 18
Omen Content was tough when you could only bring 6 people. Being able to bring 18, the tweaks to some moves of the minibosses and ultimately the power creep from gear/job points made the content quite easy and accessible
Master Trials These were quite tough, especially but not only for the 6 people limitation. The entry cost and cosmetic-only rewards didn't make it that popular for a lot of players, at the same time though you didn't feel like you were missing out a lot by deciding to skip it (sigh). Ultimately made easier thanks to the power creep (Job Points, Gear)
Divergence Dynamis The biggest enemy in here was lag and the amount of packet loss :-P Jokes aside this content was somewhat challenging at start, so many things could go wrong even simply with a series of bad pulls with too many statues with the wrong eyes at the worst moment. You still had a lot of freedom with the up to 18 people allowed in. I feel this content made it easier for larger groups than smaller ones. Some W2 bosses were arguably tough, Wave 3 had very steep requirements at start in terms of Accuracy needed, there were less valid options for DT/Hybrid sets for most jobs. W3 bosses presented some challenges but also gave you the option to make the fight easier by killing all Fetters. While ultimately made much easier thanks to the huge amount of new gear available (and now master levels) I'd say this can still be somewhat challenging for small groups
Odyssey Sheol-Gaol The highest tier of this content is quite difficult, to the point some things not only haven't been beated yet, weeks after release (which is something I'd say unusual, given FFXI's history over the last few years) but some haven't even being attempted yet.
The content creates a more "controllable" environment by limitating the amount of players who can participate, disabling the freedom granted by subjobs and gating the content behind a currency used to attempt the fights (segments), which you can only gain in limited amounts, once per day.
There are incredibly high incentives to tackle this content on the highest difficulty, to unlock augments cap and to efficiently farm the high amount of points required.
The several limitations in setups required for each fight, entry fees, difficulty unlock and multiple "fuck off" mechanics give these fights little space for error and leave maybe too much in the hands of random things that the players cannot control in any way.
My personal take is that, thanks to the extremely controlled environment Odyssey Sheol Gaol is so far the "most difficult" content for FFXI.
They succeeded in making the hardest version of the content "desirable".
They succeeded in limitating the huge amount of freedom/synergy in the hands of players, hence creating content that's more averagely/regularly difficult, instead that the classic Black or White FFXI situation (where a content is extremely hard with most setups, but somewhat easy with a few others).
They succeded in creating this extremely controlled environment, without completely changing the core of the game (like WoW, for instance).
They failed in making, in my humble opinion, the content a bit too unaccessible (too many requirements, too many punishments, too many random/uncontrollable things).
I'm glad they managed to reach these goals.
I hope over the next few years the content will be progressively made more accessible for everyone but I don't see how they can do it given how there are no Job adjustments plans, ML is capped at 50 (and quite hard to reach) etc.
We'll see!
All things said, despite me whining a lot for all the choices they made for Odyssey, I can somewhat see why they made them and apreciate the fact they managed to reach this level of challenge.
Wish the content would mantain this level of challenge but with more reasonable/accessible requirements, but oh well, it is what it is.
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