April 2022 Version Update

And the most likely answer is that there is no gameplay meta reason, and it's just a description of the noise that is happening.

There's no reason to believe they wanted this specific adjective to have gameplay relevance. Saying "They would of called it something else" is completely baseless.

Greyson also tells you at length what the bang means which i assume you just spammed through the chat with him.

So you're completely right, except for the fact that 2/3 loud thuds in your screenshot and scenario would not be part of a feasible example. Across the thread most people agree that at 8/10 chests, the final chest gets swapped, and to my knowledge belligerent bangs refer to the open able chests not the one in the center which is the exit chest. All of which would lead me to believe you had a run with 1 chest with out thud which you opened at 8, your 9th chest was replaced as it happens with a loud thud and your final chest was the other exceptional loud thud.

Your statement almost made me believe I had missed an obvious situation that clearly completely removed any doubt. Except. It didn't. Again. 4-7 chest without belligerent that a loud thud yields the exceptional loot. I say 7 now because anyone who opens 8 would open the 9th chest which would skew the result. I'm not being obstinate or holding out hope for this hypothesis, however you can't say in a situation that already bends rules that somehow this is in fact the exact case.

Also "a few times now" begs the question, if it's there and completeky fits the criteria how come no one (save for you) has said oh I saw that. Your case is compelling but uses the 9th swap chest and final chest as 2/3 loud thuds and the pulse is in the normal loud thud stuff from before the update. So since you seem to feel like there's a mountain of evidence I'm ignoring. I will go page by page for the thread and report back on it.

Edit#2. The only times (2 in this thread) someone has received exceptional loot without a belligerent bang preceding it are you and weew, who BOTH received loud thuds on the 9th chest. Every other time someone posted screenshots with the exceptional loot it was either preceded by belligerent bang or within the first 3 chests when the belligerent bang would not have been shown yet. I didn't just randomly choose a time to start posting in this thread with some novel idea that had already been debunked with evidence.

So. Again I'm saying, if someone gets a loud thud after chest 3 (first opportunity to receive belligerent bang notification,) after not having received that notification, and receives the exceptional/newly added loot, please could someone post a screen cap. This does not include chest 9 which is a changed chest like I said before in this thread a couple times. The hope would be for a non loud thud exit chest to truly give evidence that is undeniable and compelling.

I acknowledged this many pages ago and even in the comment you quoted, I assume you just ignored that part?

I am not questioning that the game doesn't tell you what BB means. I am saying the phrase used doesn't match what you would expect it could mean, just based off of wording alone (I even acknowledged that too, but for some reason I needed to spell it out).

you all have put more thought into what "belligerent" means than SE has put into the entire event

They are straight up telling you what it is and you're ignoring it.

I'll just post this again

what if belligerent bang is an indication of proximity to the mimic, like mine sweeper?

Sounds pretty clear to me it's about LTs:

Belligerent Bangs

I'll just note that, after reading Greyson's description of Belligerent Bangs and comparing it to what Vaerix stated, I will acknowledge that there is a possibility he is correct, because of the particular bolded line above that Greyson says. It could very well be that some battlefields are loaded with "Belligerent Bang" Loud Thuds that are in fact enhanced Loud Thuds, and guarantee enhanced treasure vs a normal Loud Thud. It could be structured like

Noise = common trash
Thud = Uncommon drops, slightly rare drops
Loud Thud = Between Slightly Rare/Rare drops and Ultra Rare drops
Belligerent Bang Loud Thud = Rare-Ultra Rare drops

It's also possible that these enhanced LTs have always existed prior to this month, and SE just implemented a way to know for certain if a LT will reward something good. Or, it could be neither, and LTs share the exact same pool, and BB message is simply giving you hints about it.

It depends on how you interpret "great" from "merely good". That could imply Thud vs Loud Thuds, or it could imply what Vaerix is suggesting, that there is indeed a higher tier of Loud Thud that rewards the "great" treasure vs the "good (Void item). I'll wait for more information to come out to suggest whether it is true or not, but I may have been a little dogmatic in saying there was no higher tier of LT.

Belligerent was absolutely not the right word to use. In multiple ways lol.

It implies that the item itself makes noises. Which is a decision, I guess. But it makes much more sense that the living monster belligerently rattles around cause you're almost close enough to eat.

But as we all know, making sense is not something they do well.

I would've just went ahead and did "your senses tell you there's a valuable item still on the field"

A painful noise that hurts your ears can also be called hostile (or belligerent), even when it signifies something good. The noise is belligerent, not the thing causing the noise.

If this is true then voidshards are rare-ultra rare, great lol

Mimics are intelligent predators that need their prey to come to them, they learned that their prey desired treasure chests and so imitate them in order to catch and devour them.

The noise is only made to seem louder because it's the only noise you can hear coming from other chests. It's just an indication that you are guaranteed an LT if you can find it by the 8th chest or before the mimic. Kinda like some of the ideas in this thread are an indicator that you guys need more content.


If it were meant to be an indication of the quality of loot, it would have been called 'belligerent thud'.
/case

soon

What is that? Is that linked to TVR?

Arc Angel shield, they added them to all races in the last update.

I was just spitballing a random example. No idea how the loot is distributed among the various noise levels. I have personally seen more Void items than anything rare, though :/

Yes, trust in SE's grasp of the english language.
I 'member a time when SE add a Yngvi Earring and it took 3 years for them to realize it goes on the neck.

Don't forget the Su5 GKT that gave access to "all greatsword weapon skills"^^

I do fault the localization team and not SE as a whole though.

Belligerent Bang means the ghosts are angry with your greed.

I would love to see the Japanese translation of the Greyson dialogue to see if there's any chance that localization is a problem.

The sections I bolded above are the ones currently I take issue with, and the reason I asked for screen cap showing the following:

A: I did not receive a Belligerent Bang AFTER having opened 3 chests that were not Loud Thuds.
B: I received a Loud Thud between 4 and 7 Chests
C: I Exited and received a new ultra rare drop that could not be attributed to a Loud thud from final chest.

The whole point is to determine if Loud Thud in general (After 3 chests have been opened without a Belligerent Bang) is worthwhile, or not. This is all predicated on the premise that what the game says has a modicum of truth with the description. I'm not willfully ignoring irrefutable evidence, I'm merely suggesting an explanation. If ultra rare drops were moved to a new type of chest it's better to know than to wonder when you're looking at a non belligerent bang 7th chest loud thud whether or not it's even worth exiting or not. Some would say always exit, I would argue getting the 66% chance of anything else and a replaced final chest would be more worthwhile if you cannot receive ultra rare drops from non Belligerent bangs. I'm not saying that Belligerent Bang Loud Thuds can't have garbage, but it's the chance at Ultra Rare that matters to me when it comes to Trove.

Until...
showed up.

You would have to define what you consider an ultra rare is. Here is a screenshot, not mine, from earlier in the thread that i would consider to fall within the defined parameters.

Earlier in the thread, directly after this, it was posted that those 3 loud thuds were from chests, 8 9 and exit, 8 being the pulse, 9 being replaced with the BBLT, and the final chest being outside the parameters of the "Belligerent Bang"

Also the defined parameters are chests 3-7 not chests 8, 9, and exit, which clearly does not fall into those parameters.

The reason that 8 is disregarded is because as soon as 8 is opened, and 9 is replaced, unless 9 is replaced with a thud, any 9th chest Loud thud modifies the chance of a true test. To facilitate a true test, if 8 is a loud thud, not preceded by a Belligerent Bang, if chest 9 is replaced by a thud, that would satisfy the criteria as evidence. Again the final exit chest skews the results aswell if it's in fact a loud thud.


So, being as objective as possible if 8th (Non BBLT was Pulse).

Upon opening that chest the 9th chest gets replaced by something non noise to show that the proper choice for the 9th chest (BBLT)

The final chest afaik is not subject to notification of BBLT which this case above would clearly validate as well.

Edit: I addressed this like 12 hours ago specifically after scrolling through every screenshot on this thread, because it was said the Evidence has been provided multiple times. To recap that answer that post you ignored of the same question, every non Belligerent Bang loud thud with gear that would fit the test occurred during the first 3 chests or on the final chests. Spooky and Weew were the only 2 who provided screenshots showing the final chest (Chest#9 which is replaced) as providing BBLT loot per the idea that BBLT is enhanced loot. Everyone else who received loot in that category received their Loud Thuds before 3 chests had ever been opened.

Edit 2: Defining Ultra Rare: HTBF Drops from Odin HTBF and later (Malignance, Crepuscular, etc), Volte Pieces, and Sroda Equipment that were all added with this change to AMAN. I do not know if former AMAN Exclusive Equipment would fall into this category or not, but I'd believe it.

Edit 3: I modified the original criteria to say after having opened 3 chests that were not loud thuds for A: I did not receive a Belligerent Bang. Since it further specifies the test and eliminates the possibility of erroneous "evidence"

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm reminded me of A Night at the Opera:

I'm pretty sure it just means the mimic is going to hate f*ck you.

Correct-- we can't really make assertions about "when" the chest decisions are made because we only see the decisions after we open them. The hypotheses about "preloaded setups" vs "coffer contents are loaded once opened" are inherently unfalsifiable and thus unscientific. It would be like if I asserted that there's a floating demon that always vanishes whenever anybody looks at him. There's literally no way for you to disprove this unless you pinned down God and got a confession out of him. (For AMAN Trove, this is analogous to "reading the source code of the event")

I'm going to try anyway because lol I'm an asshat

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Based on what we've seen so far, and using Occam's Razor, it seems like the only changes to the actual structure of the event are the loot tables, and the "9th chest" gimmick. Everything else (the rainbow chests, the "belligerent bang" message) does not seem to reflect how the event actually works, but simply what information we have about the game state.

The "9th chest" gimmick suggests that there is at least one example of the game dynamically determining chest strength: that is, the "9th chest" will always turn golden or rainbow, regardless of whether or not ---maybe--- it would have given a "noise" message before then. Is this dynamic element just a one-off or part of a repeated pattern?

The "belligerent bang" part throws me off. Everything we know about it suggests that this message proc signals some previously hidden information about the game state (even if we don't know what exactly that hidden information refers to.) Therein lies the problem: it presupposes some "game state" to reveal something about, which is only possible if this "game state" is something that is at least static. Put simply: if the "belligerent bang" is telling us that there is a "thud" or "loud thud" out there, then the game itself must have already decided that some chest is a "thud" or a "loud thud!" Which is evidence that works against the "dynamic chest" theory.

Is it "just dynamic" for the 9th chest, but static for everything else? Seems like a weird thing to change, and I'm not super convinced that this is the case.

Here is my guess, one that seems to fit all the evidence given so far.

The chest readouts are determined entirely dynamically. There is no layout of thuds/loud thuds that is determined when you enter the BC: each "decision" is made after you open the chest.

For this to work, we have to assume some probability distribution function (PDF) across noise/thud/loud thud/mimic outcomes (different for Mars vs Venus). This just means that for every chest, a dice is rolled and there's a predetermined, say, "50% chance" that it gives the noise message. Does the PDF change, skew, or bias as you open more chests? No idea, can't prove this without substantial sample size. But the point is that the game just samples from this PDF when you open the chest. (My guess is that, yes, the PDF is assigned to each chest and might vary depending on different circumstances, as I'll describe below.)

The new "9th chest" feature just collapses the PDF for that chest to a single outcome: thud or loud thud.

The "belligerent bang" feature is interesting because I don't think it actually guarantees jack ***. My guess is that the belligerent bang message just signals that the chest PDFs are biased towards thuds and loud thuds for a while. It doesn't actually say anything about any specific chest, because again, the chest message is only resolved when you click on it. Rather, the "belligerent bang" is just a way of saying, "hey! You're more likely than usual to get a thud or loud thud now!!" It opens up a "lucky streak", colloquially speaking. This also would explain why some players never actually see thuds or loud thuds after getting this message (until the 9th chest): because the BB message is just signalling that odds of getting good results are increased. You can get that lucky BB message and still get super unlucky with the rest of your chests.

============================================

Does any of this matter? Probably not. My strategy for AMAN has always been to open the chests in a specific order (1, 2, 3, 4...) until I get a loud thud, then peace out. It makes me feel less shitty overall if I stick to a rigid policy, because at that point "luck" isn't even a factor to me, lol. Just following an algorithm.

If anything, though, the only thing I would change is that if I ever get a "belligerent bang" message, I ride that *** out as long as I can until it stops appearing. The little evidence and reasoning I have points me towards the idea that the BB message is just a way of telling you that you're in the middle of a lucky streak. It's just a push to keep going, and who am I to turn that down, I guess.

Confirmed fact.


I completely understand why people enjoy gambling, but I would rather it come at the end of a challenging encounter when loot is rolled.


I can't really blame SE for what they're doing though. They know people have ambuscade and trove mules. It's not coincidental that the voucher campaigns line up with the free login campaigns. I just hope that they put some of those revenues toward actual content and not just more ways to get things without actually playing...

I had BBLT voidshards few times and if you dont believe me without proofs, you can watch some streams from opening orbs done by people. Like for example this one at 2h53min