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New Character Development System: Master Level.
 Shiva.Thorny
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3149
By Shiva.Thorny 2021-11-15 07:17:44
Embolden with maxed cape makes duration take a -35% hit, and Embolden has a 10 minute cooldown, so the RDM would need Duration +424%, and I don't think that's possible for spells cast on others even with all the boosts. Enhancing is calculated in the order:
Received multipliers(embolden is -50% received, -35% with cape)
additive seconds
caster multipliers
composure or perpetuance
Phalanx II has a base of 240 sec.
Add embolden(-35%) and jp(+20%): 204 sec
Add jp(20), merits(30): 254
Ammurapi, emp feet, relic body, af hands = 75%
dls+2, ghostfyre cape = 45%
estq head/legs = 20%
1.75 * 1.45 * 1.20 = 3.045 * 254 = 773 sec in perfect conditions?
if you ditch the merits, you still end up with 682, unless i'm missing something somewhere
By SimonSes 2021-11-15 07:57:33
I think it's more about the 3x duration self buffs style that they think is defining of the RDM job and don't want other jobs to be able to do that. Not much for game balance but more for "style" or something like that.
It's objectable but if that's their reasoning I guess it sorta does make sense. Regrettably so, alas.
There is many stance JA that are not available from sub, so I also think it's more like arbitrary decision. Yonin, Innin, Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Misery, Velocity Shot as examples.
Also if we are on topic of Embolden. RUN/RDM wont be able to use it with Composure, but Embolden is available for RUN lvl60. Which means at some point you might be able to use it on RDM main. Can you imagine things like Temper II, Haste II, En-spell or even Gain-Stat with it... broken AF XD
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Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 90
By Sylph.Excalin 2021-11-15 08:12:44
Good table.
That basically kills off the Dho Gates farmers by ML65/SJ60 ish?
At that point it would be better to cleave non Apex mobs.
Until they start cleaving other people's mlevels for money. They have 65 master levels they can get for people, money abounds.
Set up a Good Cleaving Pld, Brd that can Cleave, Rdm that can Cleave and a Geo....can probably have two spaces for carries on 142-147 Cogs. Can probably sync to the 99/M0 and service CP and EP in one set up dependent on customer needs.
I doubt you will be able to cleave any cogs when at high Mlevels it will be one of the most desired camp. Also if you do it normal way you have place for 2 groups in one wing, when you cleave everything you don't and if you cleave you will lose chains after almost every pull or every 2 pulls, loosing tons of EP. Essentially killing one by one and keeping the chain going is probably as efficient as cleaving, but you have room for 2 groups then, instead of one.
Ofc its possible they will add more camps somewhere when we reach higher Mlevels and will require higher ilvl mobs to get EP.
You have three groups of mobs in the wing, could cleave one group at a time to sustain chain instead of all three at the same time.
By SimonSes 2021-11-15 08:20:26
Good table.
That basically kills off the Dho Gates farmers by ML65/SJ60 ish?
At that point it would be better to cleave non Apex mobs.
Until they start cleaving other people's mlevels for money. They have 65 master levels they can get for people, money abounds.
Set up a Good Cleaving Pld, Brd that can Cleave, Rdm that can Cleave and a Geo....can probably have two spaces for carries on 142-147 Cogs. Can probably sync to the 99/M0 and service CP and EP in one set up dependent on customer needs.
I doubt you will be able to cleave any cogs when at high Mlevels it will be one of the most desired camp. Also if you do it normal way you have place for 2 groups in one wing, when you cleave everything you don't and if you cleave you will lose chains after almost every pull or every 2 pulls, loosing tons of EP. Essentially killing one by one and keeping the chain going is probably as efficient as cleaving, but you have room for 2 groups then, instead of one.
Ofc its possible they will add more camps somewhere when we reach higher Mlevels and will require higher ilvl mobs to get EP.
You have three groups of mobs in the wing, could cleave one group at a time to sustain chain instead of all three at the same time.
Doesnt really matter, around chain 30, the time for next kill drops very significantly, to the point you need to have mob ready to kill right after previous one or you lose it and tank cant pull new mobs while still holding previous group for cleavers. Also if you only cleave like 6-7mobs, it wont be much faster than just kill them few times faster with skillchains, but probably cleaving would still be easier to manage for multiboxers wanting to sell EP for gils. Also like I said, if we get to higher Mlvls, there is a big chance you will have competition in each wing and you wont have all mobs available to cleave as you want, unless they will add more camps with new Apex in other places in Vana'diel.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1462
By Asura.Pergatory 2021-11-15 18:40:49
Embolden with maxed cape makes duration take a -35% hit, and Embolden has a 10 minute cooldown, so the RDM would need Duration +424%, and I don't think that's possible for spells cast on others even with all the boosts. Enhancing is calculated in the order:
Received multipliers(embolden is -50% received, -35% with cape)
additive seconds
caster multipliers
composure or perpetuance
Phalanx II has a base of 240 sec.
Add embolden(-35%) and jp(+20%): 204 sec
Add jp(20), merits(30): 254
Ammurapi, emp feet, relic body, af hands = 75%
dls+2, ghostfyre cape = 45%
estq head/legs = 20%
1.75 * 1.45 * 1.20 = 3.045 * 254 = 773 sec in perfect conditions?
if you ditch the merits, you still end up with 682, unless i'm missing something somewhere Another factor for that calculation is that there are 2 categories for enhancing duration.
Oranyan, Ammurapi Shield, and Theophany Duckbills are examples of items that fall into a second duration category which is a separate multiplier from most enhancing duration gear like Telchine.
I'm not aware of any way to identify which category an item is except through testing...
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3185
By Asura.Geriond 2021-11-15 19:24:41
The two categories are augment Enhancing Duration and native Enhancing Duration.
For that calculation, Empy body beats Relic body, and you can throw on a 4% Colada and a 5% Obstinate Sash.
Also, according to the wiki, enhancing received, like on RUN gifts, happens at the end of the calculation, not before the additive seconds. Are you sure it's first?
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 Ragnarok.Lowen
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 316
By Ragnarok.Lowen 2021-11-15 19:40:47
It's pretty trivial to fulltime Phalanx II on a RUN with Embolden. Everyone seems to forget they get 20% Enhancing Magic Duration Received from their job gifts on top of all the duration gear a RDM will be stacking.
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Pandemonium.Zeto
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 368
By Pandemonium.Zeto 2021-11-15 20:55:23
The two categories are augment Enhancing Duration and native Enhancing Duration.
For that calculation, Empy body beats Relic body, and you can throw on a 4% Colada and a 5% Obstinate Sash.
Also, according to the wiki, enhancing received, like on RUN gifts, happens at the end of the calculation, not before the additive seconds. Are you sure it's first?
First Obstinate Sash is enfeebling duration. You're thinking Embla Sash. Second, yes, he FUBARd the math but you're looking a
240 base + 50s from merit+gifts so 290s base
Then our multipliers::
-15% embolden with cape -35% and 20% JP(same term per Thorny's post below)
45% from 20% ghostfyre, 25% +2 torque(duration augs)
20% from empy head/legs/feet (aug composure)
85% from 10% Ammurapi Shield, 20% AF gloves, 15% relic body, 30% empy feet 10% Embla(duration on gear)
Math it all together and you get:
290 *.85 * 1.45 * 1.2 * 1.85 = 793s
Oranyan, Ammurapi Shield, and Theophany Duckbills are examples of items that fall into a second duration category which is a separate multiplier from most enhancing duration gear like Telchine.
I'm not aware of any way to identify which category an item is except through testing... It's duration on gear(native) vs duration from augments. Telchine is from an augment so it's in the augment term same with stuff like ghostfyre and DLS+2. The others are all native on the gear.
Ragnarok.Lowen
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 316
By Ragnarok.Lowen 2021-11-15 22:05:25
Edit: Nope, misremembering.
 Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10351
By Asura.Sechs 2021-11-15 23:30:06
I think it's more about the 3x duration self buffs style that they think is defining of the RDM job and don't want other jobs to be able to do that. Not much for game balance but more for "style" or something like that.
It's objectable but if that's their reasoning I guess it sorta does make sense. Regrettably so, alas.
There is many stance JA that are not available from sub, so I also think it's more like arbitrary decision. Yonin, Innin, Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Misery, Velocity Shot as examples.
Also if we are on topic of Embolden. RUN/RDM wont be able to use it with Composure, but Embolden is available for RUN lvl60. Which means at some point you might be able to use it on RDM main. Can you imagine things like Temper II, Haste II, En-spell or even Gain-Stat with it... broken AF XD That's exacted the reason why they probably won't allow embolden on sj.
And if I'm wrong, oh baby, I will definetely enjoy it ?
It comes at the cost of dual wield though.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2021-11-15 23:32:01
if it's anything like strategems, you wont be able to use Embolden with spells that the job itself can't cast
i.e. you cant accession C5 or C6
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1185
By Odin.Senaki 2021-11-16 00:39:57
I did a run through of all 4 Promy zones to find the Apex mob locations:
*All 4 zones have Apex Idle Drifters as their main mobs, with random other types of Promy Apex-Mobs thrown in. (Higher floors have a higher chance of Non-Drifter Promy Apex-Mobs).
I tried to map their spawn locations via wide scan and visual confirmations.
I ran to every floor, on all maps.
Edit: Below are the finalized, confirmed spawn locations per map.
Note: Mea's southern most spawn is two small groupings / spawns, not one big one.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Legend:
-> Black line shows seemingly edge of their spawn locations.
-> Red is Apex spawns.
Asura.Hya
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 329
By Asura.Hya 2021-11-16 04:39:21
I ran to every floor, on all maps.
Curious, so floor 3 of Vahzl and floor 2 of Dem don't have Idle Drifters? I could've sworn when I did a run-through of Dem that there were Drifters on floor 2.
Shiva.Thorny
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3149
By Shiva.Thorny 2021-11-16 05:35:00
The two categories are augment Enhancing Duration and native Enhancing Duration.
For that calculation, Empy body beats Relic body, and you can throw on a 4% Colada and a 5% Obstinate Sash. Didn't realize Colada could get enhancing duration, since it's not on the wiki. Is it DM only?
Quote: Also, according to the wiki, enhancing received, like on RUN gifts, happens at the end of the calculation, not before the additive seconds. Are you sure it's first? It's the only way I could get everything to line up correctly. Can test it pretty quickly on RUN.
Regen1
0% anything(thf/whm): 75 sec
RUN self cast(20% received from JP): 90 sec
RUN self cast(embolden): 52 sec (shows that embolden and JP are same term)
RUN self cast(embolden, 8% cape): 58 sec (shows that cape is also same term)
RUN self cast(20% received, +27 sec bandeau): 116 sec (shows that received happens before +sec)
RUN self cast(embolden, +27 sec bandeau): 79 sec
RUN self cast(embolden, +27 sec bandeau, +30% pants): 103 sec (shows that it all adds up correctly with these terms in play)
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1185
By Odin.Senaki 2021-11-16 05:42:01
I ran to every floor, on all maps.
Curious, so floor 3 of Vahzl and floor 2 of Dem don't have Idle Drifters? I could've sworn when I did a run-through of Dem that there were Drifters on floor 2.
I ran through all floors twice to double check and the maps are my results. I was of the same mindset of wondering why some maps didn’t have any on certain floors. Holla particularly surprised me.
All said, it is indeed possible I somehow missed them. :p
If you find more, please let me know so I can fix the maps. ^u^
 Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-11-16 07:06:48
Colada Enhancing Duration is listed on the Oseem page under Magic column. Fern stones
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3185
By Asura.Geriond 2021-11-16 07:20:27
Valefor.Prothescar said: »if it's anything like strategems, you wont be able to use Embolden with spells that the job itself can't cast
i.e. you cant accession C5 or C6 It's not like Strategems. Embolden works on spells that others cast on you, including ones RUN can't cast.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10097
By Asura.Saevel 2021-11-16 08:51:23
See if someone can't find a camp in Promys, they aren't trying hard enough.
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1909
By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2021-11-16 09:25:32
The two categories are augment Enhancing Duration and native Enhancing Duration.
For that calculation, Empy body beats Relic body, and you can throw on a 4% Colada and a 5% Obstinate Sash. Didn't realize Colada could get enhancing duration, since it's not on the wiki. Is it DM only?
No Enhancing Duration is possible with Fern. Up to 4% on Colada
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34
By Asura.Myasasa 2021-11-16 09:40:38
For that calculation, Empy body beats Relic body, and you can throw on a 4% Colada and a 5% Obstinate Sash.
I think you mean Embla sash which is 10%; obstinate is for enfee 5%
By Gambits 2021-11-16 09:50:54
So..are we just getting sub-job levels with this? or will we get new abilities/traits/upgrades..etc?
By Mattelot 2021-11-16 09:55:57
Nobody knows yet. Some of this was a nice surprise. They'll have to do something extraordinary going forward to keep most people interested.
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Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2021-11-16 10:13:39
Nobody knows yet. Some of this was a nice surprise. They'll have to do something extraordinary going forward to keep most people interested.
Naw. The route they went this will keep everyone busy for 5 whole minutes after each update and buying from bots overnight. No ones going to lose interest.
They set the bars super low. I was hoping for a trillion kills per STR+1 but they made it a couple hours for str+20
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1185
By Odin.Senaki 2021-11-16 10:29:46
Nobody knows yet. Some of this was a nice surprise. They'll have to do something extraordinary going forward to keep most people interested.
Naw. The route they went this will keep everyone busy for 5 whole minutes after each update and buying from bots overnight. No ones going to lose interest.
Why would you buy job points / mlvl from bots? Not only do you get points from doing ody c, but the parties in the new camps are a blast imo.
Quite glad they gave us a reason to play with returning players again. The Job Point - Exchange, for Dyna-D clear was a bust once people realized the W3 was less time consuming.
So with this system people can get JP while vets get mlvls.
Asura.Sechs
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10351
By Asura.Sechs 2021-11-16 10:47:23
I like the idea a lot in theory, but in reality I'm not sure how feasible it would be, at least in the new camps.
Returning players likely don't have top notch gear and I'm afraid they would struggle with accuracy there.
Mid tier gear, uncapped jps, no additional stats / skill from master level, and surely they wouldn't get an overload of acc buffs either, unless you expect bard+cor+GEO in pt.
I'm talking for returning players willing to play DPS. If they want to play support or healer it's all good I guess
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3185
By Asura.Geriond 2021-11-16 10:51:30
Bard + Cor + Geo is actually pretty common for Promy/Aldazaal parties from what I've seen. However, even with just two out of the three, esch support is usually willing to give up one of their buffs for more accuracy if it's requested. There's definitely a minimum level of gear for a person to do well on these mobs, but I don't think it's too horrible.
By Chaplin 2021-11-16 12:02:38
Nobody knows yet. Some of this was a nice surprise. They'll have to do something extraordinary going forward to keep most people interested.
Naw. The route they went this will keep everyone busy for 5 whole minutes after each update and buying from bots overnight. No ones going to lose interest.
Why would you buy job points / mlvl from bots? Not only do you get points from doing ody c, but the parties in the new camps are a blast imo.
Quite glad they gave us a reason to play with returning players again. The Job Point - Exchange, for Dyna-D clear was a bust once people realized the W3 was less time consuming.
So with this system people can get JP while vets get mlvls.
Same reason why just about everyone who bots… bots. They blow and want people to think they’re good and fast.
Ragnarok.Lowen
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 316
By Ragnarok.Lowen 2021-11-16 12:32:16
Valefor.Prothescar said: »if it's anything like strategems, you wont be able to use Embolden with spells that the job itself can't cast
i.e. you cant accession C5 or C6
RUN can't cast Phalanx II, but Embolden still works on it. I dunno why anyone would expect it to work like strategems when the function and effect are both different.
It's not like it would be busted in the first place. Giving up dual-wield just for Embolden Temper II seems like a pretty terrible trade 99% of the time.
By SimonSes 2021-11-16 14:01:40
Valefor.Prothescar said: »if it's anything like strategems, you wont be able to use Embolden with spells that the job itself can't cast
i.e. you cant accession C5 or C6
RUN can't cast Phalanx II, but Embolden still works on it. I dunno why anyone would expect it to work like strategems when the function and effect are both different.
It's not like it would be busted in the first place. Giving up dual-wield just for Embolden Temper II seems like a pretty terrible trade 99% of the time.
Idk, 50%triple attack with just Crocea and 50% stronger enspell?
From the patch note
Quote: First up, we are introducing a new battle system known as Master Levels.
This is a new character advancement system to power up jobs for which you have earned the job master designation. Increasing master levels increases your basic attributes.
Although you can increase you master level in your usual stomping grounds, we have a couple of adjustments coming for those of you who want to cut your teeth on foes a little more challenging. This includes some adjustments to monster spawn locations, which will continue in future version updates. Take a look at the official patch notes once they go live for more information.
It sounds you have the option to either grind or some new challenge to increase your "Master level"
We have a week to speculate until the patch hit.
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