/DNC (Sub That Shall Not Be Named?)

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/DNC (Sub that shall not be named?)
 Bahamut.Sobius
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By Bahamut.Sobius 2021-02-15 20:36:14
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Hello All,

I realize every sub job brings advantages and disadvantages, but I'm curious if there is any benefit to /DNC for BLU? From reading, most people have a pretty solidly low opinion of /DNC - Why is this? Am I missing something? I can see where it isn't optimal for DPS, but I have found it useful for some of its utility now and then.

Not defending the sub, just looking to understand better why it is frowned upon.

Thanks in advance
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-02-15 20:39:54
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Context matters.

/dnc is not a party situation sub. Solo, knock yourself out. Perfectly fine to want a waltz instead of wasting a spell slot if that makes you happy.
It's just that blu doesn't need sambas and /dnc boxstep is niche. (For which you could call a dancer trust, if you wanted them)

((It's really not a game changer /war /sam /rdm /dnc but people are ridiculous sometimes)) I could go 99BLU/No Sub anon and no one would have a damn clue.

If some rando gives you ***for blu/dnc and won't take you to "thing" unless you go blu/war - *** that guy. He's bitching about literal seconds of inefficiency. It ain't that serious.
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 Odin.Creaucent
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By Odin.Creaucent 2021-02-15 20:49:13
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Because /war offers you so much more than anything DNC has and the def drop from Berserk is mitigated with MG and Cocoon. You have Magic Fruit that heals you for more than waltz so you can use that TP on weaponskills to kill the mob faster. You can cap your own auto attack delay so Haste Samba is useless. As far as traits go everything useful that /dnc gives you get from spells anyway while /war gives you DA so you can set TA.

If you need something more tanky /run.
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By Afania 2021-02-15 20:58:44
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Bahamut.Sobius said: »
but I have found it useful for some of its utility now and then.

Which? It would be easier to discuss if you can give us more specific examples.

Most of the "utility" from DNC can be done by spells, or be done by another support job in the party for less DPS loss. So /DNC it's not as useful as another choice that offers irreplacable ability. Since you can only use 1 SJ it's just the matter of weighting the pros and cons.
 Asura.Cordyfox
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By Asura.Cordyfox 2021-02-15 21:10:37
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It's just... not a useful sub. There are so many better subs for BLU. Healing Waltz is the one really nice thing from it.
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 Ragnarok.Jessikah
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By Ragnarok.Jessikah 2021-02-15 21:31:13
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I think it's important to keep in mind what Blue Mage is as a job. A lot of people see it purely as a "DPS" because that's what they've been trained in a lot of MMORPG's, but jobs in this game work differently. Blue Mage's primary capabilities are in damage output, but its adaptiveness is really where it shines. You can deck yourself out with /WAR and go glass-cannon with all the Dual Wield, Attack Bonus, and Triple Attack traits you want. But you can also substitue some of those purely-attack-focused abilities to fill in the gaps in your team.

/DNC provides things like Dual Wield, Accuracy Bonus, Evasion Bonus, Subtle Blow, Skillchain Bonus, HP recovery, Erase, Job Ability Haste, independent Defense Down and Evasion Down enfeebles, and Reverse Flourish. More importantly, /DNC makes it so you can use your TP for more than just offense. As a trade-off for using weapon skills, you can hold it for what could be life-saving effects.

But of course it's all context. What do you need most for your situation? Obviously if you need to eke out that extra damage, then go /WAR. But I do think that people are missing out on what makes the job special by blindly ignoring other subs.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-15 23:40:19
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Odin.Creaucent said: »
Because /war offers you so much more than anything DNC has and the def drop from Berserk is mitigated with MG and Cocoon.

(I am not being combative here)
What exactly does /WAR offer that is "so much more"? Basically Berserk for dps or Defender if you are pulling for Omen swart farming. Other than that, it's really small. BLU main can already cripple defense of an enemy and Nature's Meditation without ever needing to pop Berserk, and in a zerg you are only getting 10% DA and slightly higher stats across the board since you might be at attack cap anyways. Now with that said, /war is still better than other options (lol), but that's just because BLU covers a lot of areas already that a sub would normally supplement whatever gap the job has. BLU doesn't have many.

Reasons to /dnc and why BLU main doesn't need it:

-Dual Wield - BLU can already set it, and the tier from /DNC is only II. You would have to make up more in your melee set to compensate (not a huge problem)

-Self Heals - BLU can already do significantly better/faster heals infinitely than Waltzes, and it's not tied to TP

-Violent Flourish - BLU gets way better option in Sudden Lunge

-Box Step - BLU gets Sweeping Gouge, Tenebral Crush, or Bligestorm/Tourbillion (if you want to use UL), which blows steps away for defense down. Yes I know they stack, but it takes a long time to apply the full bonus, and then you are tied to keeping it active, which is a further dps loss.

-Reverse flourish - Unnecessary, BLU can get TP way faster than using steps (dps loss) and activating this JA

Healing Waltz - This is the only reason to sub DNC on BLU and the uses are limited due to Windys of Promy. I used to use /dnc for Dawn HTBF on VD when I was soloing my body. Trusts would get hit with silence aoe for 1 minute and I had no way to remove it (and I couldn't survive that long without their heals), so healing waltz was the best way to help me beat the fight. It's also good for stuff like petrified or whatever on trusts, since those are things Winds cannot remove. But if it's for removing something on yourself, its not necessary since you can use Remedy/Holy Water/Panacea just the same.

To OP: I would argue that sub choice is not really significant for a job like BLU, as it is for say WAR or DRK, who rely onthat /sam for JA haste. It's probably one of the better jobs suited for things like Odyssey Sheol Gaol, where you are not really hindered at all from lack of sub. If you want to sub DNC, go for it, but it offers nothing that BLU can't cover on it's own. As was stated, /dnc is a convenience factor of using sneak/invis, or freeing up spells to cover your utility if you need it.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-16 01:14:37
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Healing Waltz - This is the only reason to sub DNC on BLU and the uses are limited due to Windys of Promy. I used to use /dnc for Dawn HTBF on VD when I was soloing my body. Trusts would get hit with silence aoe for 1 minute and I had no way to remove it (and I couldn't survive that long without their heals), so healing waltz was the best way to help me beat the fight. It's also good for stuff like petrified or whatever on trusts, since those are things Winds cannot remove. But if it's for removing something on yourself, its not necessary since you can use Remedy/Holy Water/Panacea just the same.

I would rather sub /whm for that tbh.
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By Pantafernando 2021-02-16 02:23:15
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Spectral jig is awesome
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-16 02:24:43
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In the instance I mentioned, /dnc was faster to remove silence from a trust since I was silenced myself. I didn't have to stop to cast and risk being interrupted.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-16 02:49:52
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
In the instance I mentioned, /dnc was faster to remove silence from a trust since I was silenced myself. I didn't have to stop to cast and risk being interrupted.

True but second form also has amnesia. If you get hit by that, then by silence..
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-16 03:09:21
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It was a very long time ago, so I had to check why I went with /DNC instead of /WHM and here was why:

Quote:
Seal of Quiescence: AoE Silence, lasts up to 75 seconds.
Cannot be curred by Silena or Echo Drops.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-16 03:21:00
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
It was a very long time ago, so I had to check why I went with /DNC instead of /WHM and here was why:

Quote:
Seal of Quiescence: AoE Silence, lasts up to 75 seconds.
Cannot be curred by Silena or Echo Drops.

Oh, so it can be curred with HEaling Waltz, but not Silena and Echo? Interesting.
 Odin.Creaucent
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By Odin.Creaucent 2021-02-16 06:31:51
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SimonSes said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
It was a very long time ago, so I had to check why I went with /DNC instead of /WHM and here was why:

Quote:
Seal of Quiescence: AoE Silence, lasts up to 75 seconds.
Cannot be curred by Silena or Echo Drops.

Oh, so it can be curred with HEaling Waltz, but not Silena and Echo? Interesting.

It can 100% be cured with Echo Drops in the HTBF thats how i used to deal with it and then cure myself up while the trusts were silenced. The one you have got that from is the BGwiki page for the original Promathia fight.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-16 08:28:51
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Well, now I really don't know why I picked /DNC over /WHM, but probably a combination of reading that page and just the ease of convenience of instant removal of /dnc.