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The problem with unbalanced Odyssey gear
By Aerix 2021-02-15 00:00:21
You again completely miss my point. I'm not saying new gear should completely usurp old gear, and I'm not even comparing new and old gear. I'm comparing specific sets of gear to each other to show that they are not balanced between themselves. I will restate this as often as I need: you all admitted the gear wasn't balanced repeatedly already. You then keep trying to change the topic and compare completely different sets and straw man my position.
Nobody admitted anything in that sense. Just because gear from the same content isn't equally powerful doesn't mean it's unbalanced. Job context matters, along with their gear options as part of the greater picture, which you are completely ignoring to make a pointless argument. FFXI just doesn't work that way.
By Torzak 2021-02-15 00:03:29
The fact that you can mix and match gear sets for TP, for WS, for DT, etc, as opposed to being locked in to all 5 piece of one set or another, matters.
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By Asura.Kronkeykong 2021-02-15 00:04:38
 Bahamut.Suph
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By Bahamut.Suph 2021-02-15 00:06:58
You sounds Fraustrated, maybe we should combine this with the blm thread.
Sure maybe the gear are not balanced, what do you want to do about it?
Is it balanced that Torcleaver and Caladblog is vit based while Fudo and Masamune is str based? Do you think something should be done about those 2 weapons that was released on the same time with the same content (and even same NM path) too?
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By Asura.Cloudblade 2021-02-15 00:26:12
And yet again, nobody gets the point. All I was saying is the gear, when compared with themselves, are not properly balanced. This has been accepted repeatedly already. The excuses of "well, it has happened before" does not negate the current issue. I literally can't make this more easy to understand.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2021-02-15 00:27:34
just delete sam so the problem is solved then
By Littleflame 2021-02-15 00:38:42
We all get your point, congrats the gear is unbalanced you win. The problem is you can't just look at this set in a vacuum. SAM didn't get as perfect a set as WAR or DRK, but I also don't see many people walking around in the Arke set and Ratri is just for Scythe WS, though I've been seeing it in more idle sets now. Where as you could full time 5/5 kenda +1 on MNK and solo Shadow Lord from the MT. Perhaps that says more about MNK, but SAM gets an "ignore all special abilities" button. YOU GOT A HEAD PIECE WITH 200 TP BONUS AND SC DMG FOR GOD SAKE.
As its been said time and time again stuffs situational. you lost the gear lottery but just be thankful you don't play DRG.
 Asura.Essylt
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By Asura.Essylt 2021-02-15 00:45:55
All I was saying is the gear, when compared with themselves, are not properly balanced. Except you can't compare these sets "with themselves" because that's not how this game works. And even if you could, Ikenga would be, by far, the least useful one of them all, negating your point entirely.
By Korgull 2021-02-15 01:01:39
What does this guy want? I don't get it.
Bahamut.Suph
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By Bahamut.Suph 2021-02-15 01:05:08
And yet again, nobody gets the point. All I was saying is the gear, when compared with themselves, are not properly balanced. This has been accepted repeatedly already. The excuses of "well, it has happened before" does not negate the current issue. I literally can't make this more easy to understand.
So you made this thread just to whine? Congratulation
Would you have made the same point if the situation were reversed and SAM get the best gear while everyone else get the shaft?
I presume you wouldn't, but now that you precious SAM is no longer the number 1 omg bestest DPS, you have to make this thread.
As a SAM myself I don't mind this development, both my SAM and my mule's MNK has phrased at or near the top for most of the dyna D i've been doing for the past year while my WAR has been in storage. I welcome the variation.
It's not like SAM is any weaker.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-15 01:09:47
What does this guy want? I don't get it.
He wanted SAM to be on Sakpata set. That set is bonkers though.
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By Asura.Cloudblade 2021-02-15 01:16:28
I feel like a broken record here. You are not getting my point. I'm not doing this to complain about sam, and I would speak if the gear favored sam and not others. Try not to straw man or lie about me next time, as it really helps in conversation.
Yes, you can compare these solely with each other because that was the entire point: to compare the new gear from a specific content. Comparing it with other content doesn't even work well since, as I pointed out earlier, this was from the same content and only costs 30mil whereas the "alternative" gear outside the content is objectively inferior, requires twice the inventory space, and costs 80-100mil. The other "defenses" against me don't hold any water whatsoever since they are simply "whataboutisms" or straw men.
I'm not even complaining. I'm literally just pointing out the issue with unbalanced gear. This has been admitted by many on here already, yet you keep coming back to try to then say it isn't correct for some reason by straw manning me.
 Quetzalcoatl.Khajit
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By Quetzalcoatl.Khajit 2021-02-15 01:19:54
Sam should have been on Ikenga to prepare Samurai for their future of being able to use bows again!
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By Asura.Zetaking 2021-02-15 01:25:06
i cant say for sam, but set would be useful for ninja, also not an omg thing, but an extra 16% demon killer that dosen't get cut in half like jas on nms could be useful for sams tool kit
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By Bahamut.Unagihito 2021-02-15 02:07:22
Asura.Kronkeykong said: »Chad Dark Knight
Real talk though, heavy melee like DRK and WAR need enmity control tools bad. I hope the job update is that.
DRG is the best heavy melee right now because it has no threat problems.
Magic Damage not scaling for Enmity is really stupid and makes COR kind of OP as well.
They really need to adjust the enmity before we see a big change in meta.
Do the sets help? Sure, mostly DRK and WAR, but the rest of the jobs that could already wear malig/fix enmity were pretty fine.
I don't really know ***-all about 2HDD enmity woes, but this seems pretty strong, and I don't think I've seen much discussion about it:
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Bahamut.Suph
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By Bahamut.Suph 2021-02-15 02:08:16
I feel like a broken record here. You are not getting my point. I'm not doing this to complain about sam, and I would speak if the gear favored sam and not others. Try not to straw man or lie about me next time, as it really helps in conversation.
Yes, you can compare these solely with each other because that was the entire point: to compare the new gear from a specific content. Comparing it with other content doesn't even work well since, as I pointed out earlier, this was from the same content and only costs 30mil whereas the "alternative" gear outside the content is objectively inferior, requires twice the inventory space, and costs 80-100mil. The other "defenses" against me don't hold any water whatsoever since they are simply "whataboutisms" or straw men.
I'm not even complaining. I'm literally just pointing out the issue with unbalanced gear. This has been admitted by many on here already, yet you keep coming back to try to then say it isn't correct for some reason by straw manning me.
And you can compare Caladblog and Masamune, they are both from the same content, exact same situation as here and hence not whataboutism.
Your point is some odyssey gears are better than other? People have been making that observation within hour of the update. Your observation is not novel, and this thread is pointless.
Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2021-02-15 02:19:27
Bahamut.Unagihito said: »Asura.Kronkeykong said: »Chad Dark Knight
Real talk though, heavy melee like DRK and WAR need enmity control tools bad. I hope the job update is that.
DRG is the best heavy melee right now because it has no threat problems.
Magic Damage not scaling for Enmity is really stupid and makes COR kind of OP as well.
They really need to adjust the enmity before we see a big change in meta.
Do the sets help? Sure, mostly DRK and WAR, but the rest of the jobs that could already wear malig/fix enmity were pretty fine.
I don't really know ***-all about 2HDD enmity woes, but this seems pretty strong, and I don't think I've seen much discussion about it:
It's near impossible for any of those jobs besides scythe drk to not run out of mp within five seconds. Tried it on monk getting refresh 3 and it was a huge nothingburger
Asura.Nuance
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By Asura.Nuance 2021-02-15 02:28:51
Earring was clearly designed for scythe drk as the mp depletion on it even with a refresh and or refresh vorseals in escha would eat the ***out of the minuscule mp pool of any other of those jobs way to fast to be of any benefit especially when the mp drain does in fact proc on every hit of your ws as well.
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Asura.Essylt
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By Asura.Essylt 2021-02-15 03:41:19
I'm literally just pointing out the issue with unbalanced gear. Except you're pointing wrong, dude. Like I said, Mpaca set is miles ahead of Ikenga in terms of general usefulness and yet you still complain about it being underpowered.
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By Asura.Cloudblade 2021-02-15 04:29:29
Except you're pointing wrong, dude. Like I said, Mpaca set is miles ahead of Ikenga in terms of general usefulness and yet you still complain about it being underpowered.
But the Ikenga gear is actually good. That aside, it seems nobody on here can look at things objectively or even understand the point of the thread without trying to straw man the entire thing and/or lie about me and what I've said.
I see no reason to belabor the point since my OP has been verified repeatedly across the entire thread: the odyssey gear is not balanced properly.
By Torzak 2021-02-15 04:35:13
It's not balanced properly according to you.
Asura.Essylt
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By Asura.Essylt 2021-02-15 04:42:41
But the Ikenga gear is actually good. It's a bunch of highly situational pieces that can only be used in one capacity - as a midshot set - and aren't even that good for that until you cap out the augments.
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By Odin.Senaki 2021-02-15 05:49:26
The real question is: "Why is Run on the Blm/Sch/Geo gear?"
By SimonSes 2021-02-15 07:54:21
Except you're pointing wrong, dude. Like I said, Mpaca set is miles ahead of Ikenga in terms of general usefulness and yet you still complain about it being underpowered.
But the Ikenga gear is actually good. That aside, it seems nobody on here can look at things objectively or even understand the point of the thread without trying to straw man the entire thing and/or lie about me and what I've said.
I see no reason to belabor the point since my OP has been verified repeatedly across the entire thread: the odyssey gear is not balanced properly.
Ikenga is good in the same sense Mpaca is good.
Mpaca is situational bis. Ikenga is situational bis. Gleti's is situational bis. Only set that is more bis than other is Sakpata.
Please explain to me how Ikenga set or Gleti's set is better than Mpaca? Gleti's has slightly higher meva, but it's still only mediocre meva in comparision to Sakpata, Malignance or some SU3 armor sets. Mpaca has highest PDT among those 3 sets. Ikenga has no PDT at all. Mpaca has Killer effects which is another unique layer or damage mitigation and even damage taken or damage done to target when paired with right circle or Killer Instinct from BST. From those 3 sets its probably the safest.
As for offensive potential, all 3 sets has situational uses and has completely different advantages EDIT: and in the vacuum if you would like to full time all those sets, Ikenga isnt for sure better than Mpaca and Gleti's is by far on the last place.
So please explain to me once more, how is any melee set beside Sakpata overall stronger than Mpaca?
I think you simply have no idea about potential of those sets and what they are good for.
 Bahamut.Newzarb
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By Bahamut.Newzarb 2021-02-15 08:09:32
0 STP on any of it. It’s all garbage! Haha
(Maybe he just didn’t include that stat. I didn’t actually look at any of the gear, but 0 STP is kind of a killer.)
Honest question though : is STP that relevant nowadays ? We can stack up so much multi attack that getting 1000TP is done in 2-3 rounds anyway.
Maybe SimonSes already did some maths about that. :p
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By Odin.Creaucent 2021-02-15 08:12:57
Have people forgot that gear sets are a thing in this game? Every set doesnt need to do exactly the same thing. Yes the PLD/DRK/WAR set is very good but that is clearly SE's attempt at making PLD more in line with RUNs level of Meva to bring them back into the meta. WAR and DRK are also on that set as the only other set that has that level of Meva is Volte and thats a pain in the arse to get. As people have pointed out already all the jobs listed on the Mpaca stuff have other sets that have high levels of Meva on them.
As for Ikenga that set trades defensive stats for -enmity which RNG doesnt really need but COR needs in buckets as we have no real way other than high jump to suppress or shed enmity gain. That is by far the stat im most happy with on the Ikenga set because have you tried doing Black and White on COR and trying to do damage?
"Unbalanced gear" is the name of the game in XI always has been because you can very easily mix and match with other sets.
Apart from the Ikenga set and certain pieces with STP augments every piece is missing STP which apart from using pieces for defensive sets i doubt anyone would want to full time a full set.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-15 08:27:22
Honest question though : is STP that relevant nowadays ? We can stack up so much multi attack that getting 1000TP is done in 2-3 rounds anyway.
Important is highest mix of multi-hit and storeTP. Also since most best WSs scale with TP a lot, its not only important to get to 1000TP but also to get as much TP above it as possible. Thats for max damage approach ofc.
Also few jobs in few scenarios (WAR during blood rage, RNG during Double Shot, THF in general, MNK during Impetus) can be exception of above and might also care to mix good white damage in the mix of high TP gain too or in case of Double shot RNG even completely focus on white damage. Like everything in FFXI its only general approach and there are situations that can flip all of that.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-15 08:31:45
That is by far the stat im most happy with on the Ikenga set because have you tried doing Black and White on COR and trying to do damage?
Not sure if that - enmity will help you in that specific scenario. Black and White has old enmity mechanics where enmity from damage is not reduced with higher ilvl of target (because afaik all nms there are lvl 99, but with Stats boosted to much more difficult), so its super easy to cap enmity there. Even with -50 enmity, you will probably cap enmity with less than 200k damage.
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By Odin.Creaucent 2021-02-15 08:35:48
That is by far the stat im most happy with on the Ikenga set because have you tried doing Black and White on COR and trying to do damage?
Not sure if that - enmity will help you in that specific scenario. Black and White has old enmity mechanics where enmity from damage is not reduced with higher ilvl of target (because afaik all nms there are lvl 99, but with Stats boosted to much more difficult), so its super easy to cap enmity there. Even with -50 enmity, you will probably cap enmity with less than 200k damage.
Oh i know they have the older enmity mechanics.
I was looking at the new gear from Odyssey, and most all of it looks amazing. I couldn't help but notice, however, the severe lack of benefit on the samurai/nin/monk/pup gear.
Not only does the gear have the lowest Meva for any set (a stat that is sorely needed, especially at higher tiers), it also has the same physical damage limit bonus as the whm/rdm/brd/smn set. For instance, here is how each set stacks up based on Eva, Meva, Combined Eva/Meva stat total, Physical damage limit, -mdt, -pdt, -dt, and Mdef:
Ikenga (rng/cor)
Eva - 408
Meva - 540
total combined eva - 948
Mdef - 29
physical damage limit - 25
Mdt - 0
Pdt - 0
DT - 0 (10 with augment)
Gleti (thf, bst, drg, blu, dnc)
Eva - 456
Meva - 487
total combined eva - 943
Mdef - 67
physical damage limit - 35
Mdt - 0
Pdt - 35
DT - 0
Sakpata (war, pld, drk)
Eva - 338 (tied for last)
Meva - 674 (tied for 1st)
total combined eva - 1,012 (tied for 1st)
Mdef - 39 (4th of 6)
physical damage limit - 30 (second)
Mdt - 0 (tied for first due to dt)
Pdt - 0 (tied for first due to dt)
DT - 40 (tied for 1st)
Agwu (blm, sch, geo, run)
Eva - 380
Meva - 594
total combined eva - 974
Mdef - 34
physical damage limit - 0
Mdt - 0
Pdt - 0
DT - 0 (10 with augment)
Bunzi (whm, rdm, brd, smn)
Eva - 338
Meva - 674
total combined eva - 1,012
Mdef - 44
physical damage limit - 0 (8 with augment)
Mdt - 0
Pdt - 0
DT - 40
Mpaca (monk, sam, nin, pup)
Eva - 477 (1st)
Meva - 406 (last by a full 20% lower than Gleti, the second lowest)
total combined eva - 883 (last by 10% lower than second to last)
Mdef - 62 (2nd)
physical damage limit - 0 (8 with augment) (last, only becoming tied for second to last with Bunzi gear - whm/rdm/brd/smn - with an augment)
Mdt - 0 (tied for last)
Pdt - 40 (1st)
DT - 0 (tied for last with Gleti)
The Mpaca gear gets last for Meva by a substantial margin, last in total combined eva by a substantial margin, last for physical damage limit (lower by a full 25-35% compared to other dd sets, meaning that singl-handed weapons wearing the other sets will have a higher pDIF than the h2h, katanas, or even GK's from the Mpaca set), and tied for last on Mdt and DT. It only wins in -pdt by a small margin, eva by a small margin of 19, and second for Mdef.
On the pDIF example, a Samurai with a GK and lvl 99 in Mpaca armor has, with the augment at full strength, a pDIF of 3.7 (already lower than all other 2-handers because reasons), while a thf with a single dagger, with no augments at all, would have a pDIF of 4.5225. This gear allows a single dagger to have a nearly 25% higher pDIF than a Great Katana.
It should be clear to see that the Mpaca gear was royally screwed when it came to these stats, with the Sakpata gear being completely busted in comparison. I realize the gear has other uses, but the way the stats were divided up between the sets was not done correctly in my opinion.
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