Zomorrodnegar Vs. The Other Swords

ha ha. just call someone an idiot if you don't agree w/ them...

Did I say Run isn't a fantastic tank? Did I say it does not have lots of great damage mitigation tools?

No no, you are completely ignoring the statement and throwing a straw man at me by implication. Or are you really saying that Phalanx, regen 4, turms mittens and battuta are all the curing a rune fencer needs to compete with Paladin's Majesty Cure 4 spam? (pld has phalanx also).

I know how to play Rune Fencer. I've tanked most major content in the game on my Rune Fencer and it is well geared. I don't claim to be a Rune expert, but I dont' have to be to see the writing on the wall.
Paladin has tons of curing power. Rune fencer has very limited curing power. I say this translates into better SOLO sustainability. That means no healer or support. How long can they keep going without support? I'm pretty sure Paladin wins in this area.

It would take some tests to really show it. I don't think its a very bold claim either.

There are plenty of good reasons why Rune Fencer is the preferred tank. However, saying that Paladin has nothing on Rune fencer is just lazy and ignorant.

How can a discussion about BLU swords suddenly becomes RUN x PLD?

itt: pointing out a differing opinion = calling someone an idiot

Do you have an example of this "no support" situation? I'm trying to come up with a situation where you have no trusts, no mages, no support but are absolutely best served on PLD vs RUN or even DD/dnc?

Jesus...I can’t remember anyone getting triggered that easily...

Go take a walk around the block or something.

Lunafreya ended the BLU sword discussion.

So what is the best off hand for Tizona now? and when using mainly savage or Expiacion?

Is it currently Thib?

If your accuracy supports it, yes.

To be fair Taint you hit the haymaker, I just cleaned up.

So, is there any use for zomorrod path B? Does it let BLU do anything solo that they can't without it (I'd also ask for group situations but who am I kidding.)?

Path C is super niche I suppose but with sortie I see at least one use case.

Not really, your money would be better invested into making a Tizona.

same as the other path B's, youll feed less TP, but also do less dmg compared to another rema level weapon. This can be a bit more useful for blu as that applies to their phys spells too which multi-hits can rack up a good deal of TP fed. At the same time blu isnt really using their phys spells regularly these days.

Wouldnt call it needed for anything, just a nice toy to have in the pocket

I wouldn't compare zomorrod to tizona cause, if zomo has a purpose, it's a completely different to the one tizona has. Imho only path A's purpose is strictly DDing, without doing the math - just eyeballing i'd say it will probably fall short of other options like tizona and almace.

I don't know if the statements of zomorrod beeing useless is from people who did some testing or math with all 3 paths or if it's just paroting because it was dismissed early since it had to compete with Rostam, Musa and Crocea Mors.


Path B is for TP denial strategies, I only consider the FUA as a bonus to ensure we can keep up with skillchains.

The only way outside zomorrod path B for BLU to cap subtle blow II would be SMN with Siren's favor. Thing is in TP denial setups SMN will be busy summoning cait sith every 20ish seconds for mew and avatars can die.
Path B seems a much more reliable and convenient way to ensure SB is capped consistently.


Path C is for magic setups or soloing and the duration cut is somewhat disappointing. It only adds more macc, which imho limits it to a swap piece even with a magic spellset, only usefull for those few situations where you don't lock weapons due to TP loss, luckily BLU solo sortie has at least one of those situations.
I don't know how the cooldown reduction is calculated (merits) but it should bring affinity cooldowns with merits down to 70-75 seconds. Even if we could dual wield 2 and recieve effects from sub slot it still wouldn't seem zomfg amazing.

Let's make a example:
Soloing Sortie E Dhartok with a kill time of ~20 minutes and perfectly riding the timers (unlikely) that would equate to 16~17 burst affinities compared to 12 without zomorrod path C.
let's say we just burst affinity without magic bursting and assume a average damage of 25k that would make roughly 400.000~425.000 damage over the course of the battle, compared to 300.000 without SU5.
At ~1.56M HP this should be about 8% of Dhartoks total HP in best case scenario attributed to SU5 path C.

You forgot pld, yes they're the same model for SU5, same for all the weapons that share a weapon type

BLU also has feather tickle, reaving wind and light of penance for tp reudction as well as delta thrust for plague (if it can land) on top of what most other jobs can do in terms of mob TP reduction.

The question is just is it enough to do something similar as RDM does vs odin.

Zomo is pretty solid for DD if its situations where Tizona AM takes to long to build and you want fast tp gain still. Its not a bad savage blade weapon if attack isn't an issue.

Pros:
*Follow-up attack always adds same amount of hits regardless of your current multi. If you have fighters roll or ifrit avatar favor full benefit.
*Subtle blow 2 which is very difficult for blu to obtain. (only siren Avatar favor)
*20 Blue skill
*High Macc / acc
*High base damage
*Could buy fast with gil for quick powerful option
Cons:
*No huge Expiacion Bonus when compared to Tizona
*No attack bonus (naegling) no mp restore (tizona)
*No mab or int
*Cost can be expensive.

Main-handing Zomorrodnegar and off-handing Bunzi's can be a fun use case to spike damage from burst affinity along with your empyrean +2 and/or +3. The cooldown reduction isn't much but a fun use case. You sacrifice some M.atk., but if your Bunzi is R25 or higher it covers say Maxentius's M.Atk, but there is still the lose of stat vomit. Be interested in seeing some testing from the Bonanza's Wizard Rod (Reforged) in the off-hand. It would make the weapon set-up have some great utility with similar damage value.

Small Note: you can also, if geared well treat this weapon set-up as a magic weapon skill option. Damage isn't like a croc, but another fun use case.

I wish BLU could equip it but we can't, BLUs bonanza magic option would be ice brand.

if you just want the BLU skill to pump occulation shadows up then swapping 2 Iris is the cheaper and better option.

That's so embarrassingly lazy.

Occulation caps at 600 skill = 12 shadows which can be done without any weapon swaps AFAIK, or is 650 possible to reach?

Where the hell is this baseless claim coming from?

Don't spread misinformation. It 100% DOES NOT cap at 600. Go test it at 700 skill for 5 seconds... easy 14 shadows.

650 without weapons is indeed (Easily) achievable.

EDIT:

went out and threw on all my skill stuff. I'm at 700 with no weapons. 720 with Zomorro, 750 with Zomorro/Iris. So cap would be 760 with double Iris

This is obviously impractical. I use a set that keeps me ~ 650-660 and has max DT in it for my Occultation set. But in less relevant content you could use the max skill set for an extra shadow, especially in pre-buff.

To reiterate my prior point, there's no known cap. Theres simply a cap to how much skill we can get, which atm seems to be 762 (my cap set + Renaye ring) unless i'm forgetting some niche item

ML50 = +50 skill
Luhlaza Keffiyeh +3 = +17 Skill
Assim. Jubbah +3 = +24 Skill
Rawhide Gloves = +15 Skill
Cornflower Cape AUG = +15 Skill
Hashishin Tayt +3 = +33 Skill
Luhlaza Charuqs +3 = +12 Skill
Njordr Earring = +10 Skill
Hashishin Earring +2 = +12 Skill
Stikini Ring +1 (x2) = +16 Skill
Mavi Tathlum = +5 Skill

Optional weapons Zomorrodnegar +20 Skill / Iris +30 Skill

So why bother asking? Or is it just a case of you didn't like the answer?

It's definitely more of a macro piece... but I full timed it / offhanded Sakpata's for tanking Bumba. The Macc on it was nice and there was nothing else I'd bother equipping unless I had a prime sword for that role

Hell from a melee perspective... You can't write off the fact that BLU wants to offhand a TP Bonus sword in 90% of content. Tizona gives +70 Acc, Zomo only gives +50. That's definitely a factor as well Incorrect, my mistake

Yeah I worded that wrong, I meant I thought 650 wasn't reachable but I forgot about earring being added and cornflower cape, etc. I'm happy with 600/12 shadows in full DT. Will be interesting to see if AF+4 and Relic+4 get more skill to carry less crap.

As mentioned by others there is no known cap to occultation BLU skill tiers. 600 is just a good target to aim for as it leaves space in other slots to add other benefits. Personly I aim for fastcast and conserve MP but I imagine spell interuption rate down couldn't hurt either and as you can read -DT is also a popular choice.

Diamond Hide has a 500 skill cap, maybe you've confused it with that one.

I don't know the answer, that's why I'm asking.

There really isn't much info about this sword at all other than it's been considered inferior to other options right from the start. I'm questioning though that this conclusion is based on personal experience. Content has changed and I'm not even sure if for example TP denial strategies were even a thing back then.

Dexprozius just mentioned he uses it for Bumba tanking although he didn't mention which path he uses and for what purpose (I assume macc and extra HP?).


Assuming one would choose path B, which offhand would one use for TP denial? Genmei shield for more controlled TP feed/less swings per round? Deacon Saber for the extra AGI? Vampirism in hopes for drain TP procs? Something more damage focused?

If you are doing TP denial you are there for Reaving Wind and Feather Tickle and not any actual damage. If you are there for damage, like Kalunga, you are there to do the most damage in the shortest time so you want r15 Tizona which also gives you a non savage blade option so the BRD or COR can do that with WS wall not effecting you that much.

If you are wanting an MACC stick they both have the same unless you put up AM2 with Tizona then there is no competition Tizona has a lot more.


Where is this claim coming from? Tizona gets acc+30 from R15 augments and SU5 has acc+50.

Why are you misquoting me and answering the question.... that I just quoted and answered myself? I'm confused here. It's literally right above your post

You know what... I had always misread it as having both 40 Acc and 40 Macc base. That's my oversight, I completely retract that statement

I think I quoted it from your post where you quoted k123, which is why your name was in the quote?

In my reiteration of your answer I was speculating if k123 maybe confused occultations cap with diamondhides.
I also added context on why he might think of 600 beeing cap for occultation.

Tbh I'm kinda surprised people would focus on -DT over fastcast but all of this is going pretty off topic.

Because recast is usually covered with some haste buffs, better to take 0 or as close to 0 while you cast if the recast is covered