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Up In Arms BCNM
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 516
By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2025-04-22 17:53:34
Cerberus.Powerful said: »With how strong weapons are now, is Kraken Club just a trophy these days, do DRKs still zerg in it, or is it just for like fun non-serious solo/party play?
Ever since the Souleater nerf, I don't think DRKs have zerg'd with K clubs in over a decade (someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was a 7 REMA DRK and I never found it viable).
For RNG on old content, Dyna-D, segs, etc., it's totally viable and sometimes your best dmg output option from what I've experienced.
RDM Crocea/Klub is pretty nasty too, but I never really went crazy on RDM with it.
Since the release of primes, I have no idea where it has a place anymore tbh (I retired almost a year ago from ffxi).
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By Meeble 2025-04-22 18:13:57
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »For RNG on old content, Dyna-D, segs, etc., it's totally viable and sometimes your best dmg output option from what I've experienced.
If you have Naegling and a K-club, you should definitely try DRG/dnc for fun shenanigans. Jump + Savage evaporates stuff so quickly it feels like you have a delete button.
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 516
By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2025-04-22 18:20:06
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »For RNG on old content, Dyna-D, segs, etc., it's totally viable and sometimes your best dmg output option from what I've experienced.
If you have Naegling and a K-club, you should definitely try DRG/dnc for fun shenanigans. Jump + Savage evaporates stuff so quickly it feels like you have a delete button.
Totally right, I forgot about DRG, used to do segs with a buddy on DRG that had one with me on RNG, we were always neck and neck on scoreboard (similar play styles).
I tried a bunch of WAR/NIN and WAR/DNC Klub offhand builds with Farsha and stuff, nothing really ever came close to fencer builds or even just GS/GA setups.
By Felgarr 2025-04-22 23:00:27
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »For RNG on old content, Dyna-D, segs, etc., it's totally viable and sometimes your best dmg output option from what I've experienced.
If you have Naegling and a K-club, you should definitely try DRG/dnc for fun shenanigans. Jump + Savage evaporates stuff so quickly it feels like you have a delete button.
Totally right, I forgot about DRG, used to do segs with a buddy on DRG that had one with me on RNG, we were always neck and neck on scoreboard (similar play styles).
I tried a bunch of WAR/NIN and WAR/DNC Klub offhand builds with Farsha and stuff, nothing really ever came close to fencer builds or even just GS/GA setups.
Yeah. Very true!
Axe is artificially held back by nerfed implementation and ***gear. You need the Stats/TP Bonus of R30 Ikenga's axe to stay moderately competitive, but this Axe is the exception, not the rule. In fact, other Axes are almost exclusively BST fodder, where the Pet is expected to make up for the Axe's shortcomings.
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 Asura.VyreForum Moderator
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16102
By Asura.Vyre 2025-04-23 01:14:07
Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »Asura.Clintbeastwood said: »For RNG on old content, Dyna-D, segs, etc., it's totally viable and sometimes your best dmg output option from what I've experienced.
If you have Naegling and a K-club, you should definitely try DRG/dnc for fun shenanigans. Jump + Savage evaporates stuff so quickly it feels like you have a delete button.
Totally right, I forgot about DRG, used to do segs with a buddy on DRG that had one with me on RNG, we were always neck and neck on scoreboard (similar play styles).
I tried a bunch of WAR/NIN and WAR/DNC Klub offhand builds with Farsha and stuff, nothing really ever came close to fencer builds or even just GS/GA setups.
Wouldn't think that any build with KC would be practical on WAR. Double Attack is at a higher priority than OA8, and so it doesn't increase WAR's attack average very much. In a dual wield build on WAR you should already hit 4 attacks per round 100% of the time, devaluing KC. Like heck, that's higher than its average per round by itself, and with like Niqmaddu's and several other off hand options(Zantetsuken, Sangarius +1, Ternion Dagger, Crep Knife etc), Dual Wield WAR's per round should be slightly over 4 attacks per round.
ItemSet 399159
100% datk
12% dual wield for capped either way (Reeeeeeee non-optimal by 1~3 DW for either sub)
8% Quad
4, 6, or 8 swings every attack round though. WAR don't need KC to get that there attack rate.
KC just ain't good for most jobs that can wield it. It's like a pimp cane status item imo.
Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3132
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2025-04-23 01:38:15
In a dual wield build on WAR you should already hit 4 attacks per round 100% of the time, devaluing KC. Like heck, that's higher than its average per round by itself,
You're comparing attacks/round and attacks/weapon, which is not equivalent. If your MH has 1.3 attacks/round (with 0 DA on gear), Axe/KC would be 5.12 hits/round, not 3.82, which would be better than a 100% DA dual-wield build could ever possibly hope to do.
Of course there are a hundred other factors to consider, and I don't think KC WAR is very good, but we should be accurate with our comparisons...Comparing the # of hits for BOTH weapons to the number of hits a SINGLE weapon does and throwing away all the attacks of the other weapon is not going to yield a very accurate conclusion.
edit: the 5.12 isn't entirely accurate because it doesn't include the *penalty* of having DA traits. Same principle applies though.
Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
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By Asura.Vyre 2025-04-23 02:10:09
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »In a dual wield build on WAR you should already hit 4 attacks per round 100% of the time, devaluing KC. Like heck, that's higher than its average per round by itself,
You're comparing attacks/round and attacks/weapon, which is not equivalent. If your MH has 1.3 attacks/round (with 0 DA on gear), Axe/KC would be 5.12 hits/round, not 3.82, which would be better than a 100% DA dual-wield build could ever possibly hope to do.
Of course there are a hundred other factors to consider, and I don't think KC WAR is very good, but we should be accurate with our comparisons...Comparing the # of hits for BOTH weapons to the number of hits a SINGLE weapon does and throwing away all the attacks of the other weapon is not going to yield a very accurate conclusion.
edit: the 5.12 isn't entirely accurate because it doesn't include the *penalty* of having DA traits. Same principle applies though.
Incorrect. By dual wielding KC at all, KC loses its ability to hit 8 times, since attacks per round are capped at 8. This lowers its individual 3.82 slightly by itself. Any d/t/q atk in gear/trait also lowers how often it will get to do whatever roll it does, and should they proc on mainhand at all, this lowers KC's potential attacks down to 6 or less (again lowering the supposed 3.82 average).
In order for KC to be good on a job, the job has to have high accuracy and ideally have no multi attack of any kind on its gear. DRG and RNG use it well because they both sport accuracy bonus and have no multi attack natively, so can opt out of gear that gives it. WAR innately has 28% datk when Mastered. Even if you opt out of all the datk and other multi attack gear available to it, that's only 2% less datk than full Sakpata's gives. While nude!
An ideal KC user will therefore have close to 4.82 attacks per round when wielding KC, just a little less than that, and so WAR with 100% datk and dual wield will be less than 0.82 attacks within reach of it.
And in practice, the KC can have a below or above average lean. Sometimes it will be hard procing the 6~7 hits in your offhand, and other times it will do 4 or less. 4 is its highest roll chance.
100% datk Dual Wield WAR on the other hand is always swinging twice per hand at a minimum, and with Quad Attack will sometimes see 4 swings in either hand or both. No, it won't close that <0.82 gap, but its dealing far more white damage, useable on high end targets with far less buffs (and will not suffer as many misses), and better able to leverage more kinds of weapons.
By Pantafernando 2025-04-23 02:42:35
Vyre-kun, lend me your KC so i can skill up my club.
I promise I will return it after Im done.
Probably
 Bahamut.Alseyn
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11
By Bahamut.Alseyn 2025-04-23 02:54:21
DRG and RNG use it well because they both sport accuracy bonus and have no multi attack natively, so can opt out of gear that gives it
What is this wyvern erasure. >:I
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 Bahamut.Suph
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 395
By Bahamut.Suph 2025-04-23 03:23:52
Btw, in a ranged weapon scenario where you melee TP and will WS with your ranged weapon, don't dual wield, just use KC, your attack round will come more often and/or your TP per hit doesn't get reduced by dual wield.
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By Dodik 2025-04-23 06:15:25
Rng on Pinaka/kclub with Sarv spam is pretty fun, and means you don't have to wiggle your *** back and forth, or even shoot for TP for that matter.
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Carbuncle.Maletaru
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3132
By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2025-04-23 06:20:02
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »In a dual wield build on WAR you should already hit 4 attacks per round 100% of the time, devaluing KC. Like heck, that's higher than its average per round by itself,
You're comparing attacks/round and attacks/weapon, which is not equivalent. If your MH has 1.3 attacks/round (with 0 DA on gear), Axe/KC would be 5.12 hits/round, not 3.82, which would be better than a 100% DA dual-wield build could ever possibly hope to do.
Of course there are a hundred other factors to consider, and I don't think KC WAR is very good, but we should be accurate with our comparisons...Comparing the # of hits for BOTH weapons to the number of hits a SINGLE weapon does and throwing away all the attacks of the other weapon is not going to yield a very accurate conclusion.
edit: the 5.12 isn't entirely accurate because it doesn't include the *penalty* of having DA traits. Same principle applies though.
Incorrect. By dual wielding KC at all, KC loses its ability to hit 8 times, since attacks per round are capped at 8. This lowers its individual 3.82 slightly by itself. Any d/t/q atk in gear/trait also lowers how often it will get to do whatever roll it does, and should they proc on mainhand at all, this lowers KC's potential attacks down to 6 or less (again lowering the supposed 3.82 average).
In order for KC to be good on a job, the job has to have high accuracy and ideally have no multi attack of any kind on its gear. DRG and RNG use it well because they both sport accuracy bonus and have no multi attack natively, so can opt out of gear that gives it. WAR innately has 28% datk when Mastered. Even if you opt out of all the datk and other multi attack gear available to it, that's only 2% less datk than full Sakpata's gives. While nude!
An ideal KC user will therefore have close to 4.82 attacks per round when wielding KC, just a little less than that, and so WAR with 100% datk and dual wield will be less than 0.82 attacks within reach of it.
And in practice, the KC can have a below or above average lean. Sometimes it will be hard procing the 6~7 hits in your offhand, and other times it will do 4 or less. 4 is its highest roll chance.
100% datk Dual Wield WAR on the other hand is always swinging twice per hand at a minimum, and with Quad Attack will sometimes see 4 swings in either hand or both. No, it won't close that <0.82 gap, but its dealing far more white damage, useable on high end targets with far less buffs (and will not suffer as many misses), and better able to leverage more kinds of weapons.
Sure, I hadn't included the 8-hit per round limit, but you're also discounting the fact that in place of all that DA, you will have TONS of STP, meaning that even though you won't swing dramatically more often, each swing will be worth much, much more TP.
White damage is an absolute meme and total non-factor in nearly every situation. Time to WS and WS damage are king, so talking about how your white damage will be bad with XYZ weapon is irrelevant.
Again, KC WAR isn't good, but it's nowhere near as bad as it's being made out to be. You will still get a shitload of TP very fast. Losing fencer is definitely a downside...but WAR with GA also sacrifices fencer (and has no chance of being remotely close to delay cap consistently) but you don't hear people talking about how worthless GA is because you lose fencer.
You can't just take 100% DA and compare it with 28% DA and throw out all the advantages offered by the 28% DA build repeatedly and only compare the numbers which support your point.
By K123 2025-04-23 06:58:54
Vyre-kun, lend me your KC so i can skill up my club.
I promise I will return it after Im done.
Probably True story: I was in a gil HNM LS and we camped and got KC drop off Lord of Onzozo. A LS member borrowed it to try it and disappeared (rumor was that person and the LS leader secretly sold it and split the money). This was before server hopping was possible. I swear it was only worth something like 30M then (2006ish) too...
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 516
By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2025-04-23 12:20:46
Btw, in a ranged weapon scenario where you melee TP and will WS with your ranged weapon, don't dual wield, just use KC, your attack round will come more often and/or your TP per hit doesn't get reduced by dual wield.
This is an interesting idea I never considered, the only issue I see is the inability to melee weaponskill if needed, especially if you needed a slashing WS vs piercing. If that's not the case, then yeah, TPing faster is obviously the way to go!
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Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
Server: Asura
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By Asura.Vyre 2025-04-23 13:05:20
DRG and RNG use it well because they both sport accuracy bonus and have no multi attack natively, so can opt out of gear that gives it
What is this wyvern erasure. >:I
Spirit Surge!
*burp*
Sorry, Raiden.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2025-04-23 14:32:23
If we are being honest, Kraken Club is not nearly as "worth it" as it once was, given the jobs that can actually get use out of it in modern FFXI. Gear creep has made everything so much stronger that it's not as much of a massive difference as it used to be. The club's price tag is heavily influenced primarily by the absurd drop rate, but also because of the "Fake Hype" people give it when they see it/hear about it's playstyle. When I acquired mine, it was less than half the price of what it is now, and there were no gameplay changes made within the period of time between then and now, and the gear was practically the same except for Empyrean +3. The jump in price within the past few years is also probably a function of there being nothing else in the game to spend your gil on anymore, so items people never cared to buy now go up in price, due to more cash people are carrying on hand. There's also so many accuracy options and buff scenarios that make it possible to use.
With that said, it's a really cool and fun toy and I enjoy using it, but I can't really say there's too many jobs that benefit from it nowadays besides maybe DRG (and even then, Fencer DRG is busted too) and RNG. DRG/dnc is busted and totally fun to play in Segments, as it benefits greatly from it. RNG get's a toy to rip off Savage Blades faster when paired with their TP Bonus Magian Bow (and Domain Invasion Arrow). After that, I don't get a ton of use out of it.
Some jobs I have used it on:
BST - this works well since BST is terribly slow with two axes, and Fencer BST is a little slow too. The only places I have found I could play BST were in my old Segments static that allowed me to come BST (which is going to always be weaker than SAM/DRG/WAR/DRK), so you won't ever get a chance to use BST/DNC in Segments if you normally join PUGs. You can benefit from Tandem Strike's +50 Accuracy when your pet is engaged, making the non-ilvl club miss a lot less (and /dnc gives some acc trait). The issue with BST in Segs is that you lose dps using Fight every monster to activate the bonus, and I found it better to just not engage the pet (missing out on the acc bonus), so the pet is virtually worthless outside of providing you with a buff and a Snarl partner when you take hate. You also have almost no way of benefitting from Killer Instinct as the mob groups are totally random. Now I've also played BST in some Ambuscades where rolls/geomancy/favors/songs were banned (like Qiqirn Ambu). After that, I can't see too many other situations where Kraken Club BST gains a massive benefit; in Gaol your sub is restricted, and BST isn't even meta in Sortie (but still playable). Still, if you want to play BST, this offhand definitely makes it more playable and much faster to keep up (still behind, but less)
THF - Not ideal. I have a Kclub swap with THF when I want to mess around, but the amount of Triple Attack THF has, this is not a good weapon for THF.
RDM - I go back and forth with RDM. It has some fun applications, but Temper II and Thibron pretty much makes a Kraken Club OH even or worse. It might be OK for Enspell setups, but TBH, even when I do Shinryu HTBF, I get far better DPS using Crocea/R15 Demersal Degen +1, so I don't even believe it's a superior option for that use case. I have seen a R15 Almace RDM spam CDC Lights in a lowman ambu with Kclub offhand, so that looked like a neat way to play.
BRD - This is one job I use it for, and I think it's a decent option to have. TP is incredibly slow on BRD with TP Bonus OH, so I've found Kraken Club to be a great swap when I want to pump out faster Ruthless Strokes, Savage Blades, or Rudra's Storms. You won't miss it if you don't have one for BRD, though. I'd rank BRD the 3rd best job for this club.
RNG - as described above and by others, I think it's a phenomenal job to have it for, as it changes the playstyle of RNG a lot. You can AE cleave with Malevolence/Kraken Club very fast, or you can use it with Naegling for Savage, or single wield it and pop off Ranged WS, or any other combination of options. RNG gets fantastic utility from this club because of the fact you can pair it with a TON of weapons, and I'd say it's probably the #1 job for it.
DRG - Already explained it, super fun playstyle, instant TP with Jumps, huge native accuracy bonus. Just superb. I'd put this as a close second, only because I have seen the power of a real Fencer DRG/WAR and that pumps out some absurd numbers as well. Prime spear is also a thing. Wouldn't put Kraken Club as a mandatory weapon for this job, but if you are planning on getting one, you should use it on DRG from time to time. Super fun.
SMN/WHM/BLM - 6-step in Omen, or an offhand to play around with as /dnc. You'll almost never find a practical scenario to run this build on these jobs.
Anyways, the price of the club is already at max AH gil, so it's not like this post can drive the price up even further, lol.
Shiva.Thorny
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3137
By Shiva.Thorny 2025-04-24 08:45:57
the price of the club is already at max AH gil, so it's not like this post can drive the price up even further
The market finds a way. If demand exceeds value at that price, there'll be none on AH and you'll see people occasionally shout to buy it. End up bartering for 999m and some items in the same trade!
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By K123 2025-04-24 09:04:55
WTS KC for 999,999,999 and an o.sash PST in game
By RadialArcana 2025-04-24 09:05:49
I genuinely thought they would add a 119 KC by now.
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Bahamut.Suph
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 395
By Bahamut.Suph 2025-04-24 12:25:13
WTS KC for 999,999,999 and an o.sash PST in game
Will sell my kraken club for 999M + a kraken club
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Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 516
By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2025-04-24 13:17:07
If we are being honest, Kraken Club is not nearly as "worth it" as it once was
I get what you're saying, and largely agree with your point regarding the price tag. I think for players like me and others who basically had everything the game had to offer, K club was really just more of a toy that brought a lot of fun. I'd never buy one for 1B, but since I got mine from BCNM, it didn't cost me anything but time and seals.
There's nothing you can't do in the game, as well if not better, with standard end-game weapons vs K club. But that dopamine hit of watching your character wig the *** out and your TP jumping to 1500+ in a single attack round is peak fun.
100% agree on your job breakdown for k club utilization too.
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By Shichishito 2025-04-25 02:35:24
I genuinely thought they would add a 119 KC by now. Agreed. Also boggles the mind that they've never added expansion pack jobs to the club. Clubs are best and second best weapon types for BLU and GEO, just doesn't seem fair.
BTW the last gil nerf (sparks or gain exp) also came around a time where kraken was nearing the cap gil mark, just a reminder.
By K123 2025-04-25 06:37:37
I genuinely thought they would add a 119 KC by now. That would be broken, just like they won't 119 magian tp bonus weapons.
By Shichishito 2025-04-25 07:19:46
Kraken was broken back then, too. They didn't even feel the need to nerf the club itself.
Siren.Dekoda
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 144
By Siren.Dekoda 2025-04-25 09:04:01
It’s too iconic. Making a 119 version would devalue the original.
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6259
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2025-04-25 09:25:34
I would kind of like a meme weapon:
Chuthlu club
All jobs, iLevel 119
Occasionally hits 2-8 times
Additional effect: Death
Drops from the big bad Sortie boss 0.001% of the time. Max one per server.
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Lakshmi.Sahzi
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 248
By Lakshmi.Sahzi 2025-04-25 09:43:55
I would kind of like a meme weapon:
Chuthlu club
All jobs, iLevel 119
Occasionally hits 2-8 times
Additional effect: Death
Drops from the big bad Sortie boss 0.001% of the time. Max one per server.
Additional Effect: Occasionally Charms User
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By Shichishito 2025-04-25 09:46:08
I would kind of like a meme weapon:
Chuthlu club
All jobs, iLevel 119
Occasionally hits 2-8 times
Additional effect: Death And the meme is the additional effect applies to the clubber, not the clubbed?
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 Ragnarok.Daffel
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 479
By Ragnarok.Daffel 2025-04-25 16:18:50
I would kind of like a meme weapon:
Chuthlu club
All jobs, iLevel 119
Occasionally hits 2-8 times
Additional effect: Death And the meme is the additional effect applies to the clubber, not the clubbed?
People who check you in town
Ragnarok.Daffel
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 479
By Ragnarok.Daffel 2025-04-25 16:18:57
Anyone have an Automaton setup for this BCNM far as attachments etc?
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