|
Let's start a riot?!?!
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 14:27:43
We demand free college for the people of the state of Washington, due to the overwhelming effect that education has on economic success, and the correlated overwhelming impact of poverty on people of color, as a form of reparations for the treatment of Black people in this state and country. /rollseyes
Yea cuz k-12 is doing a bangup job.
e demand a decentralized election process to give the citizens of Seattle a greater ability to select candidates for public office such that we are not forced to choose at the poll between equally undesirable options. There are multiple systems and policies in place which make it impractical at best for working-class people to run for public office, all of which must go, starting with any fees associated with applying to run for public office. I can get behind this.
Cerberus.Hideka
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 742
By Cerberus.Hideka 2020-06-11 14:29:15
every other demand i didnt comment on falls into one of five categories
1. Nonsensical
2. Racial injustice (I.E. Racism 2.0)
3. Tramples on civil liberties/freedoms
4. Ideological dreck and drivel
5. Sheer, unadulterated, unequivocal, Pure 100% *** retardation.
ill give you a hint as to which category most of those items fell into.
Asura.Saevel
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10183
By Asura.Saevel 2020-06-11 14:29:49
I guess I missed it, what is happening in Seattle right now?
The rioters basically chased the police out entirely, and have claimed a six block section of the city; declaring it is autonomous from seattle, and america.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone
They even have a list of 'demands' before it will be returned to the state.
Their List of Demands said: Given the historical moment, we’ll begin with our demands pertaining to the Justice System.
The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police. At an equal level of priority we also demand that the city disallow the operations of ICE in the city of Seattle.
In the transitionary period between now and the dismantlement of the Seattle Police Department, we demand that the use of armed force be banned entirely. No guns, no batons, no riot shields, no chemical weapons, especially against those exercising their First Amendment right as Americans to protest.
We demand an end to the school-to-prison pipeline and the abolition of youth jails. Get kids out of prison, get cops out of schools. We also demand that the new youth prison being built in Seattle currently be repurposed.
We demand that not the City government, nor the State government, but that the Federal government launch a full-scale investigation into past and current cases of police brutality in Seattle and Washington, as well as the re-opening of all closed cases reported to the Office of Police Accountability. In particular, we demand that cases particular to Seattle and Washington be reopened where no justice has been served, namely the cases of Iosia Faletogo, Damarius Butts, Isaiah Obet, Tommy Le, Shaun Fuhr, and Charleena Lyles.
We demand reparations for victims of police brutality, in a form to be determined.
We demand that the City of Seattle make the names of officers involved in police brutality a matter of public record. Anonymity should not even be a privilege in public service.
We demand a retrial of all People in Color currently serving a prison sentence for violent crime, by a jury of their peers in their community.
We demand decriminalization of the acts of protest, and amnesty for protestors generally, but specifically those involved in what has been termed “The George Floyd Rebellion” against the terrorist cell that previously occupied this area known as the Seattle Police Department. This includes the immediate release of all protestors currently being held in prison after the arrests made at 11th and Pine on Sunday night and early Saturday morning June 7th and 8th, and any other protesters arrested in the past two weeks of the uprising, the name Evan Hreha in particular comes to mind who filmed Seattle police macing a young girl and is now in jail.
We demand that the City of Seattle and the State Government release any prisoner currently serving time for a marijuana-related offense and expunge the related conviction.
We demand the City of Seattle and State Government release any prisoner currently serving time just for resisting arrest if there are no other related charges, and that those convictions should also be expunged.
We demand that prisoners currently serving time be given the full and unrestricted right to vote, and for Washington State to pass legislation specifically breaking from Federal law that prevents felons from being able to vote.
We demand an end to prosecutorial immunity for police officers in the time between now and the dissolution of the SPD and extant justice system.
We demand the abolition of imprisonment, generally speaking, but especially the abolition of both youth prisons and privately-owned, for-profit prisons.
We demand in replacement of the current criminal justice system the creation of restorative/transformative accountability programs as a replacement for imprisonment.
We demand autonomy be given to the people to create localized anti-crime systems.
We demand that the Seattle Police Department, between now and the time of its abolition in the near future, empty its “lost and found” and return property owned by denizens of the city.
We demand justice for those who have been sexually harassed or abused by the Seattle Police Department or prison guards in the state of Washington.
We demand that between now and the abolition of the SPD that each and every SPD officer turn on their body cameras, and that the body camera video of all Seattle police should be a matter of easily accessible public record.
We demand that the funding previously used for Seattle Police be redirected into: A) Socialized Health and Medicine for the City of Seattle. B) Free public housing, because housing is a right, not a privilege. C) Public education, to decrease the average class size in city schools and increase teacher salary. D) Naturalization services for immigrants to the United States living here undocumented. (We demand they be called “undocumented” because no person is illegal.) E) General community development. Parks, etc.
We also have economic demands that must be addressed.
We demand the de-gentrification of Seattle, starting with rent control.
We demand the restoration of city funding for arts and culture to re-establish the once-rich local cultural identity of Seattle.
We demand free college for the people of the state of Washington, due to the overwhelming effect that education has on economic success, and the correlated overwhelming impact of poverty on people of color, as a form of reparations for the treatment of Black people in this state and country.
We demand that between now and the abolition of the SPD that Seattle Police be prohibited from performing “homeless sweeps” that displace and disturb our homeless neighbors, and on equal footing we demand an end to all evictions.
We demand a decentralized election process to give the citizens of Seattle a greater ability to select candidates for public office such that we are not forced to choose at the poll between equally undesirable options. There are multiple systems and policies in place which make it impractical at best for working-class people to run for public office, all of which must go, starting with any fees associated with applying to run for public office.
Related to economic demands, we also have demands pertaining to what we would formally call “Health and Human Services.”
We demand the hospitals and care facilities of Seattle employ black doctors and nurses specifically to help care for black patients.
We demand the people of Seattle seek out and proudly support Black-owned businesses. Your money is our power and sustainability.
We demand that the city create an entirely separate system staffed by mental health experts to respond to 911 calls pertaining to mental health crises, and insist that all involved in such a program be put through thorough, rigorous training in conflict de-escalation.
Finally, let us now address our demands regarding the education system in the City of Seattle and State of Washington.
We demand that the history of Black and Native Americans be given a significantly greater focus in the Washington State education curriculum.
We demand that thorough anti-bias training become a legal requirement for all jobs in the education system, as well as in the medical profession and in mass media.
We demand the City of Seattle and State of Washington remove any and all monuments dedicated to historical figures of the Confederacy, whose treasonous attempts to build an America with slavery as a permanent fixture were an affront to the human race.
edited for formatting
The real question is, have they declared themselves free from the laws and regulations of the US federal government? Are they declaring an open revolt? Better yet, are they attempting "to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion"?
Carbuncle.Skulloneix
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15018
By Carbuncle.Skulloneix 2020-06-11 14:35:00
i have to wonder at what point is trump going to have to invoke the insurrection act here with seattle? Whats going on in seattle plainly fits the description of insurrection, and regardless of what the governor says at that point about it- ultimately the fed can supercede him at this juncture.
I have to surmise that hes decided to leave it alone so that people can see just how weak and ineffectual the democrats are at managing their cities? that or hes afraid the heavy handedness will hurt his re-election prospects; or both. Which i cant find fault in either of those lines of thought. I think it would be better not to and let Washington handle it. Would give him a good bad guy to point to.
Besides, it's their problem, we have local governments to handle this. If their "insurrection" spills out to another state, say Idaho, Idaho can handle from their end and then ask Federal assistance if they want to.
I read that chanters were saying "Tax tax tax Amazon", (I did not read your long list, sorry, good work posting it, just I don't like to read stupid more than I have to), and my response to their Tax Amazon is "Let them" and hope that Amazon leaves. If I was in charge of Amazon or any corporation specifically targeted for unfair taxes, I'd leave to a place that would treat me and my business better.
What's the City or State going to do? Write a Law Making it Illegal for them to move out???
[+]
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 14:39:09
Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »What's the City or State going to do? Write a Law Making it Illegal for them to move out??? They can try, and at this point I wouldn't put it passed them, enforcing that law would be a whole nother ball of wax.
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-11 14:39:29
Paying billions of dollars in tax revenue to an already extraordinarily wealthy private entity to bribe them into coming to your neighborhood so they can hire people elsewhere and drive up rent so the current residents cannot afford to live in their own neighborhood isn't the answer either really. Let's go through this by order:
Paying billions of dollars in tax revenue Wrong. The original deal was $3 billion in city and state property tax and state corporate tax forgiveness, which is very common in large-scale industrial and wholesale deals. This is only on property tax revenue and state corporate tax. This does not include city corporate tax, state and city sales tax, or state and city individual income tax.
Also, this only affects the one property in question. This does not affect the corporation as a whole.
And this is a 5-year, max $3 billion tax forgiveness. Meaning that Amazon had 5 years to claim up to $3 billion tax credit. If they take 2 years to claim the $3 billion, that means they start paying property taxes and state corporate taxes. If, after 5 years, they only claim $1 billion, they start paying property taxes and state corporate taxes in year 6.
This neither gives out money, nor is a long-term tax break. And, since you are looking at an average of $250k/year for 25,000-40,000 new jobs, at 6.85% state tax rate and 3.876% city tax rate, you are looking at $26,815 per employee, on average, or $670,375,000 to $1,072,600,000 per year in additional tax revenue. And that is only for income taxes. That does not include any additional sales tax revenue associated with more people with money purchasing items in NYC. Or buying homes in NYC/NYS and paying property taxes on those properties. Or the new businesses that will grow because of increased demand and their state and corporate income taxes and the associated individual income taxes from those jobs that were created as offshoots due to increased demand.
So, tell me, is it bad to give $3 billion in tax breaks to obtain $5.363 billion in new tax revenue over 5 years? And continuing ~$1 billion per year thereafter?
they can hire people elsewhere and drive up rent so the current residents cannot afford to live in their own neighborhood isn't the answer either really. Except that the people who would be working in Amazon HQ2 wouldn't be living in the immediate area. Making an average of $250k/year, I'm sure that they can commute from NJ, Long Island, or any other better areas than the inner city in question.
Besides, having more money in the economy brings prosperity to everyone, including those who refuses to work for a living. Don't believe me? Go be poor in Europe right now, and see how bad it would be.
Cerberus.Hideka
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 742
By Cerberus.Hideka 2020-06-11 14:41:30
The real question is, have they declared themselves free from the laws and regulations of the US federal government? Are they declaring an open revolt? Better yet, are they attempting "to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion"?
Yes; moresoever, they've armed themselves and have taken those city blocks hostage, and have issued a list of demands.
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 14:41:42
So here is a picture they are trying to paint:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/10/white-house-stops-talking-about-coronavirus-309993
Like WTF is he supposed to do? Full on martial law? The left would love it. But they also love that they can make him out to be a bad guy not stopping corona, even though people are mass rioting and refusing to social distance.
Damned if he do, damned if he don't.
Personally still think he is a clown, but damn.
[+]
Carbuncle.Skulloneix
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15018
By Carbuncle.Skulloneix 2020-06-11 14:45:03
Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »What's the City or State going to do? Write a Law Making it Illegal for them to move out??? They can try, and at this point I wouldn't put it passed them, enforcing that law would be a whole nother ball of wax. Agreed. I think Maryland once tried with the Baltimore Colts.
Cerberus.Hideka
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 742
By Cerberus.Hideka 2020-06-11 14:47:24
im sorry but covid is over. The protests will have effectively installed herd immunity. We'll see a big spike as the protesters get bored and take it back home and kill their parents/grandparents with it, but after that itll be fine i guess.
We can thank the millions of morons out on the street protesting one of the most one sided issues that has ever come across america.
BLM: "THIS COP DID SOMETHING BAD! WE WANT JUSTICE"
The left: "YEAH socialJUSTICE"
The Center: "Totally 100% on board, justice mydudes"
The Right: "Man thats ***. Were on board too"
Nobody disagreed that the man should be prosecuted, and they were all arrested and charged within a day. its insanity that these protests have even persisted as long as they have.
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 14:49:17
Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »What's the City or State going to do? Write a Law Making it Illegal for them to move out??? They can try, and at this point I wouldn't put it passed them, enforcing that law would be a whole nother ball of wax. Agreed. I think Maryland once tried with the Baltimore Colts. Yea it's a non starter, one of many points that are outlandish and detract from some of the core demands that actually are valid. Makes the whole thing become viewed as unreasonable and thus won't get anywhere.
Reminds me of current law making only backwards. They won't pass a reasonable and light bill until all the pork gets added in. Only then will the law be passed.
With these guys the 'pork' will kill the 'movement.'
Who teh *** do they think they are? Washington D.C.?
Sheeeeet.
[+]
Carbuncle.Skulloneix
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15018
By Carbuncle.Skulloneix 2020-06-11 14:59:52
I think one of the demands/reforms I can get behind is the abolition of No Knock Warrants. If I remember correctly, the No Knock Warrant discussed a few pages ago, the Police that went in, weren't wearing Police Markings and didn't have body cameras on. Looks like two thugs B&E into a place, claiming to be police, real Mafia like IMO.
Also going around on peoples property without Police identifying markers, etc., reminds me of Ruby Ridge a bit too much.
I understand the reasoning behind No Knock Warrants, but IMO, its too dangerous for both parties.
[+]
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 15:10:53
So, yea, law enforcement should have some of their hands tied. It's not an even fight, but quite frankly, they want to play by the same rules as the criminals, 'so we can actually stop the bad guys' buuut. Sorry just no, they have to be playing by rules, they have to be the institution that doesn't play dirty. They have to be. No knock warrants should be illegal as ***.
Reminds me of cop shoot outs in public. I watched that movie den of thieves the other day, and there was a scene where the cops are following the bad guys in cars after the heist. No shots are fired from either side until they end up in a traffic jam. So the cops in this movie are cornering a group of people that they know are armed to the teeth. Instead of backing off the cops decide they are going to get out of their vehicle and approach the bad guys. Only then do the robbers start firing. So naturally the cops do what cops do and start shooting back, in the middle of a traffic jam.
And I am just thinking to myself as I watch this, this John Wayne ***just doesn't happen in real world scenarios. At least it isn't supposed to. If cops find themselves in an area that can create high collateral damage from a shoot out, they should back off and continue chase from a distance. Like with a helicopter.
In the movie I am talking about, doesn't make a good story, but if the cops did not try to make the arrest on the middle of traffic, like 30-40 people in that scene would have been fine.
So I am not sure where I am going with this, cops see way to many *** movies like that I think, and emulate the tough guy machismo of movie cops.
Eh, anywho, that bugged me and I had to let it out somewhere haha.
[+]
Carbuncle.Skulloneix
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15018
By Carbuncle.Skulloneix 2020-06-11 15:19:11
Wasn't there a UPS driver that was taken hostage in his van by criminals, and in the chase, they ran into a traffic jam and then had a shoot out with the police? I believe the UPS driver was killed in the fusillade. Terrible.
[+]
Cerberus.Hideka
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 742
By Cerberus.Hideka 2020-06-11 15:19:29
oh absolutely no-knocks need MASSIVE reforms. I disagree with their constitutionality wholesale. i understand the logic behind them, but that is untenable given a person has the innate right to defend their life and liberty, and theres no guarantee they are who they say they are.
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 15:20:52
Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »Wasn't there a UPS driver that was taken hostage in his van by criminals, and in the chase, they ran into a traffic jam and then had a shoot out with the police? I believe the UPS driver was killed in the fusillade. Terrible. Yea something like that, not long ago either, 6 months ago maybe. That was something that came to mind when I watched that. It's not supposed to go down like that at all.
[+]
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 15:22:06
oh absolutely no-knocks need MASSIVE reforms. I disagree with their constitutionality wholesale. i understand the logic behind them, but that is untenable given a person has the innate right to defend their life and liberty, and theres no guarantee they are who they say they are. Exactly, and in the latest case that sounds like exactly what happened. Definitely needs nixed.
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 15:28:18
Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »What's the City or State going to do? Write a Law Making it Illegal for them to move out??? They can try, and at this point I wouldn't put it passed them, enforcing that law would be a whole nother ball of wax. Aaaand I just realized the irony of this particular point. Abolish law enforcement, expect outlandish things like this to be enforced... By law... Am I reading too much into this?
[+]
Carbuncle.Skulloneix
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15018
By Carbuncle.Skulloneix 2020-06-11 15:33:28
Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »What's the City or State going to do? Write a Law Making it Illegal for them to move out??? They can try, and at this point I wouldn't put it passed them, enforcing that law would be a whole nother ball of wax. Aaaand I just realized the irony of this particular point. Abolish law enforcement, expect outlandish things like this to be enforced... By law... Am I reading too much into this? Now you got me thinking....if I don't pay sales Tax in those areas...who's GONNA STOP ME??? O.O
Wait.....WHY PAY FOR ANYTHING AT ALL???
Anyways....yah, I really can't see how disconnected the people pushing to Defund the Police are from keeping law and order too. Best answer was from that lady saying "Calling the police comes from a place of privilege" (paraphrased maybe) Like WTF? GTFO.
[+]
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 15:41:34
Ya know, police/prison reform aside. These guys really don't know how well off they are within the U.S. borders.
As far as quality of life is concerned, opportunity, etc.
I have been to places on this world that make even the roughest hoods in the U.S. look like Disney Land.
Most of these people have never left their little comfort zones. Seriously people have no idea how well off they really are. I am not trying to down play the problems we have here. But dayumn if only they knew, maybe they wouldn't hate their own country as much.
Ever seen a stray horse in the middle of urban traffic being zipped past by about 1000 rickshaws with no sense of traffic rules at all, meanwhile along the side of the street there are literal packs of homeless barely clothed children roaming around aimlessly, and 2-3 adults taking a crap right on the side walk all at once? I have, and that is mild compared to some of the things I have seen.
Grass is always greener I suppose.
Edit: and the most extreme places I have been to first hand, even still are mild compared to the really terrible places people live in. But it was enough for me to appreciate what the U.S. can potentially be, and on average is for most people.
By volkom 2020-06-11 16:05:00
probably not super accurate because of all the variables involved. but a lot of today's social/justice issues remind me of this:
Asura.Suteru
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 508
By Asura.Suteru 2020-06-11 16:17:16
Cerberus.Hideka
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 742
By Cerberus.Hideka 2020-06-11 17:00:36
YouTube Video Placeholder
worth the watch
[+]
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34187
By Asura.Kingnobody 2020-06-11 17:43:21
The real question is, have they declared themselves free from the laws and regulations of the US federal government? Are they declaring an open revolt? Better yet, are they attempting "to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion"?
Yes; moresoever, they've armed themselves and have taken those city blocks hostage, and have issued a list of demands. Here's the thing.
The media are portraying these people as freedom fighters and worthy of respect.
But if they are considered national heroes, does that make Ammon Bundy a national hero too? Cause he did the exact same thing as these "protesters" did....
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 18:00:18
Bad cops take a life, people try and bring attention to abuse via protesting, rioters and looter high jack the attention, other people decide that since there is rioting, they will 'over throw' the government and high jack the scene even further demanding free ***from a government they want dismantled, the original issue is drowned out by ***, eventually the 'rebels' go back to sipping their Starbucks and trolling the internet, nothing in the end is accomplished, besides billions of dollars in damage.
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 18:05:19
Reminds me of the Occupy slugs.
Bahamut.Ravael
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13643
By Bahamut.Ravael 2020-06-11 18:43:02
There's no real leader keeping the messaging on point, either. I guess that's one of the biggest differences between now and many civil rights movements of the past. Much of what is being broadcast is based on whatever is "trending", which unfortunately is a poor representation of any kind of intelligent thought process.
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 19:45:18
Anyone wanna start a pool on how many days before swat cleans out the rebellion?
Carbuncle.Skulloneix
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15018
By Carbuncle.Skulloneix 2020-06-11 20:03:02
Anyone wanna start a pool on how many days before swat cleans out the rebellion? ONLY...and ONLY if we can call it the Seattle Boogaloo. >_>
Leviathan.Draugo
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2783
By Leviathan.Draugo 2020-06-11 20:05:06
Carbuncle.Skulloneix said: »Anyone wanna start a pool on how many days before swat cleans out the rebellion? ONLY...and ONLY if we can call it the Seattle Boogaloo. >_> Was joke to be honest, swat going into all that would be the last thing that needs to happen, but it probably will eventually.
[+]
So yea been out of the loop, has the rebellion began?
Is sublime gonna make a 2020 edition? What cities are popping off? What was the "last straw"?
Stay tuned for more excitement in 2020....
Edit: diverting the latest corona shenanigans from random thoughts.
|
|